Member - Paul T replied:

Found it

This is the news article.

Last Update: Thursday, January 29, 2004. 11:43am (AEDT)
Minister to probe four-wheel-drive safety

" Federal Roads Minister Senator Ian Campbell says he will meet with manufacturers and importers to discuss the best way to educate motorists about driving four-wheel-drive vehicles.

All four-wheel-drive vehicles sold in Australia are tested to ensure they meet safety standards but there are concerns that rollover testing is not conclusive.

Senator Campbell says the industry must ensure consumers get detailed safety information when they buy a vehicle.

"Here's the challenge, what do we do to better advise people about the characteristics of some of these vehicles that do require more care," he said.

"I mean clearly there are things that you can do when your driving a four-wheel, things you should do when you're driving a four-wheel-drive that you may not have to do in a passenger car."

The Federal Government will also talk to the states and territories about the possibility of introducing a special licence for motorists who drive large four-wheel-drive vehicles.

Senator Ian Campbell says driving some four-wheel-drive vehicles is more difficult than driving a sedan.

"Some of the big four-wheel-drives they are more akin to driving a small truck than they are to driving a passenger car, so they're the sort of options you could look at," he said.

"But I think driver education and consumer information at the point of sale are things we can work on immediately with the cooperation of the states."

PT

Member - Bob replied:

Very interesting monograph Paul. The thing that stood out for me was that 29% of drivers of 4WD vehicles involved in ftal crashes had a BAC of over 0.05%. As a group thats something we can and must address. (Don't crash and drink ;-)

I wouldn't be averse to 4WD licenses, just as I am not averse to gun licenses, heavy vehicle licenses, motor bike licenses or pilots licenses.Bob

Darian Powell replied:

One thing pollies never do is risk the votes of a large community sector. We are such a sector - look at the sales figures and relax....any action re licences will be pretty 'soft' in effect, if anything at all......probably a fridge magnet and leaflet. In the meantime, I'll try to act responsibly while driving safely....are the other vehicle sectors doing the same ? And as for statistics......why not survey the incident resuts of the poor driving habits sector ? How many SUV's would figure in that ?Drag me away from this keyboard.

Member - Andrew & Jen replied:

Was an interesting read the Transport Saftey Article. I was interested to notice that their was only a small difference in the accident rate for cars and 4wds but motorcyclists had a huge rate of accidents. Fatalities per hundred kilometres travelled for cars 1.0/ 4wd 1.2 /motorbikes 13.6 The absolute number of motor cyclists killed in 1998 was 184 versus 191 for four wheel drives. And we subsidise them with our Accident premiums etc. But that is another story! So surely this is the area that we should address.

Also noted that 68% of four wheel drive accidents were on country roads compared to 51% for cars. Also noted that like Bob said, 29% of 4wd accidents compared with 21% for cars involved alcohol levels greater than .05% If this was lower to the same rate as cars, then the accident rates would be similar.

Rollover was 35% of fatal accidents for 4wd's compared to 13% for cars. This is an area that needs an engineering solution as I am sure more can be done to improve stability and decrease rollover. Laws requiring rollover improvements are likely I would think and with them there might be laws preventing lifting vehicles without engineering certificates as lifts generally increase rollover risk...Agh

I think that this article implies that 4wd's are not too much of a problem but that we should address alcohol and improve stability. Then their fatality rate might be lower than cars.

Of course, the other solution would be to ban the country folk driving to the pub for a drink after a days work in their four wheel drives. If they used cars for that purpose then both the alcohol rate, accident rate and rollover rate for four wheel drives would decrease and at the same time the car rates would increase. Then new laws would not be needed at all.

Cynical? Yes.

Andrew2001 Landcruiser 100S Turbo Diesel
"We do not stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing"

Mad Dog Morgan (Geelong) replied:

I would have thought some general public education of the dynamics of a 4x4 would have been in order years ago. I can't see a how a special license will do anything to influence the attitude of the sterotype jacked up hilux cowboy who give all 4bs a bad name. BEAM ME UP SCOTTY


Hooroo
Ray

SteveW replied:

So where do they stop? i cant see someone needing a 4x4 licence for a x-trail or crv or a little suzuki... or how about the new 4 wheel drive hsv coupe or Adventura? I think they should be spending their efforts taking the insanely irasponsible p-platers, that drive mummy's wrx or falcon or their 'hotted up' 'fully sik maate' lancers and pulsars off the road. they are the ones that are trying to break the land speed records on suburban roads. Leave the (genuine) 4x4 owners alone. Oh, and have they even had the tought 'how about we make the roads better??'

Its all just a cop out

Steve

SteveW replied:

Its revenue raising at its best! and you can bet your life all the money raised from the proposed licence aint gonna be going to make better roads. So would this mean that you have to have a licence to own a 4x4 or to drive one?? what happens if you have a few drinks and the mrs has to drive but she cant because she hasnt got a 4x4 licence...

Member - Eric replied:

I dont have a problem with a 4x4 licence , what i have a problem with is been issued a licence and no were to go , Fishing licence , but you cant fish here and you cant fish there . Shooting licence , you can have one but you can only use a sling shot . There is only one person to blame , US . WE vote them , and WE sit back and get shafted .We all ike to windge , but we dont want to get off our asses and do something about it . ( I include myself in all this ) If they did something like this in the states there would be a outcryVenus Bay

navaraman replied:

I fully endorse some training being made a pre-requisite for owning a large 4WD, but a separate licence is overkill. Before my fourby I drove a Hiace and an Econovan both loded up with plumbing gear. With ladder and pipe racks on top they were probably akin to the so called instability of 4WD. Never heard anyone suggesting a special licence for driving that. You can also hire and drive fairly large trucks, motorhomes on a car licence. All motorists should drive within the capabilities of their own skills, the vehicles abilities and the road conditions, many do not, it is not the vehicles but the drivers that need to be addressed.

Member - Anne replied:

If a 4wd licence is to be enforced, then someone had better do something about the level of training available. I don't belong to a 4wd club, and don't want to, but I have been looking for 4wd training in South Australia, and there seems to be nothing which isn't industry based. So how do I learn? It is different driving a large 4wd to driving an ordinary sedan, and I would like to be good at it. If having a licence makes GOOD training available I'm all for it.

Bernie from Berns Beaks & Tradesman Trailers replied:

most people out there in fantasy land don't even know where the 4 corners of there car are that is to say how far the corners are from where they are sitting so what hope do they majority of people have when it come to handling something as simple as a 4wd.
why do you need lessons?
go aout on the weekend away from anyone else find a quite spot and find out what YOU AND YOUR CAR CAN DO TOGETHER find your limit of skill on your own without a tinny or stubby and then when you believe that your knowledge of your car and your true self is complete go home and take the family for a SAFE TRIP
happy new year Berns Beaks & Tradesman Trailers

sean replied:

More rules ard regs - and for what?

Anyone who is one standard deviation from the norm in our great democracy is at the mercy of the mob.

Sean

Member - Errol (York WA) replied:

What about people coming in from overseas on holls , will thay also need to get a 4x4 license before thay can hire a 4x4 and then go out to the desart , get bogged and die , or go to Fraser and hoon around on the beach , rollover an kill them selves .Why go overseas when you can ExplorOz
ERROL

Willem replied:

It is venturing in to a mine field and I doubt if 4x4 licences will ever happen because there are such a variety of 4x4's and AWD's around.
Holden Cruz
Subaru
Holden Cross something
Suzuki
Pajero
Nissan/LC
Canter
Isuzu
Hino
Unimog
Mercedes Benz trucks

All 4x4's....

Its an impossibility to create a licence which will cover all aspects of 4x4 and the mining and pastoral industries will kick up against such a move. Even if such a law could be introduced it could not be made retrospective but would only apply to new licences. I wouldn't worry about it.............

Willem

Googs Lake camp

tim replied:

These programs drag these things out all the time from the archives, if it isn`t this it will be back onto bullbars again.
It will be another revenue raising thing as per usual, take your money and give you nothing in return.

Truckster (Vic) replied:

I people are dreaming.

They dont have to do things that make sense, they do things that SEEM to make sense...

Look at all the polls on the internet/TV/Papers.

We used to win them, now NOT ALWAYS in our favor anymore... so dont think we are "SUCH A LARGE" group that they will be scared of us... if we were so big we would win these polls....

It will happen.

Mike replied:

I think it would be a great idea.
We could have three months intensive millitary driver training.
We could keep log books so that the authorities would always know we have been keeping our 4wdriver skills up to the mark.
We could have retesting every 3 years just in case the afforementioned fails.
We could have no time left to do the things we all enjoy doing.
We could get a pilots licence instead.

I don't thiiiiink so! What a lot of cobblers! Our freedoms are continually being whittled away. Why? Because the authorities do not have an answer for how they deal with hoons when they catch up ith them. The rest of us, the vast majority I might add, pay the penalty over time through the various restrictions that are being continually placed upon us. Complacency on the part of the majority will not solve the problems we face in this and many other circumstances such those previously pointed out fishing etc).

Well, that's it. I had my whinge.
Mike.