Ken posted:

Hi Mick, Mal is pretty well spot on with his comments, I have a Tellit 550 and it works great but my first line of communication in the bush is my Barret HF250 radio . I can call in every day to the Australian 4WD Network , say hello and log where I am ,It also gives weather and track/road reports all for a $66 per year membership! Also initial purchase price for a good second hand unit is about the same as a sat phone. Regards Ken.

Goran posted:

Mal , beside just being plain old fashion , you also showing a great deal of ignorancy here . I suppose you are still using the compas with the map and keep the GPS in the glovebox as a spare.The truth is HF is dying as far as the 4x4 use and nothing can save it now. I paid $900 for a brand new Tellit 550 and it never missed the beat. No worries about flat batteries , expensive aerials and all the rest of the stuff needed to make the HF do it's job. Satelite phones are killing every other form of communication in the outback. New age of communication is here guys , may as well get use to it. Like it or not.

Ken posted:

Thats a bit strong mate, he was only asking for an opinion! Regards Ken

Steve posted:

Ken : and he got it loud and clear ?

Mick posted:

Steve you bleep , i dont sell anything . I travell outback as a geologist and use satelite phones all the time . They work 99% of the time and are small , easy , convenient and offer all you need in form of communication . Instead of being an idiot i suggest you better open your eyes .

Goran posted:

Our mate Steve is clearly suffering of a mental condition called Technofobia . Clearly a result of too many broken axles......:-)

John posted:

Bob, I agree. I use it in my work more and more. I have been in situations where the sat phone (Iridium) saved a high security movement when we had no HF comms. What is Steves problem?? technophopia???

Stephen posted:

Bob, I agree too. Steve is a Luddite. If you have a Satphone and a list of emergency telephone numbers for whatever area you're in, and a UHF for local comms, what more do you need?

Rob posted:

Ditto, I am in agreeance, the technology is more practical, everybody can identify and use a phone. In an emergency situation it can used by the young, the old, the technically retarded, anybody whereas HF, not the most user friendly might prove difficult to use by some the consequences of which may be fatal. Its called progress.

Rob

Richard posted:

Ditto the three previous follow-ups.Sat phones worked allright for the aussies doing their north pole expedition several weeks ago.Makes you wonder how this clown manages to sit in front of a computer!

Nigel posted:

While either method of communication is better than none, one benefit of HF that sat phone doesn't have, is the ability to talk to other HF users who may have been through the area you are intending to travel. UHF cannot do this unless all the people who may have useful information are within 30-50 km of you (unlikely).

HF radio provides a community where information and ideas can be shared openly. Satphone provides a direct connection to one other party at one time.

It is unfortunate that HF radios are so dear as this will result in many people missing out on the community spirit and related benefits of HF radio, something that isn't necessary but certainly makes remote outback travel so much more rewarding.

Bill posted:

Nigel always remember that the people who you NEED to talk to are within UHF range of you. Those further away are too far away to help and won't have up to date info on roads etc. Conditions in the outback change so rapidly with changes in weather .... today's 80kph stretch of road can be tomorrow's undriveable road. Given those facts it's very hard to justify $4,000.00 for a HF set .... except as a big boy's toy ... and of course that's a very good reason and is the reason that most are bought!! HF is very rarely used for emergency communication but it's a great toy! The last time I recall it featuring in a rescue was a call from the high country which was picked up in Tasmania and then the authorities were called. A sat phone call to the Bairnsdale Police would have been so much simpler and quicker.
Cheers

Nigel posted:

I have to disagree with Bill.

I hilly terrain or heavily forested areas, UHf range is cut considerably.

For example on a trip up the Palmerston highway (through tropical rainforest and steep mountains) I cannot talk to my friends house some 20 km awayon UHF, but the HF works fine.

Mick posted:

Steve , i travel alone. I have dealt with emergency on couple of ocassions out there , and used my sat phone. By the way , how old are you ? Your post here does not suggest a level of inteligence i expected to see on this forum.

Nigel posted:

I don't know the exact prices, but Satphones usually have a monthly charge and a time charge for all calls (these charges would be at least double what's on offer for standard mobile phones). HF radio costs depend on which networks you join. Networks generally charge an annual fee of between $30 (usually chat channels only) and $115 (full radphone direct dial via various bases all over australia). On the chat only networks or networks like VKS737 (which costs $77/year) there is no more to pay. On the radphone networks you have to pay for calls which are usually between 50 cents to $1 per minute.

Many outback travellers with HF have no real need to be able to direct dial the phone network so opt for just VKS737 which gives them chat ability (when the bases aren't using the channels) and twice daily weather and road reports, message passing and emergency contact.

As far as I know you now don't need to pay anything for access to RFDS if you only use it in an emergency.

Pros and Cons:

Sat phone is simpler to direct dial any phone number. Some people find HF radio complicated. Codan have a new radio that removes some of the complexity, but is dearer than the secondhand sets that are more affordable for many travellers.
HF has broadcast ability which gives you many benefits (Like UHF CB but with a range up to 5000 km). You can listen to other HF users and be forewared about potential problems, or listen to the daily VKS737 broadcasts for road and weather info. You may be able to obtain weather info by other means (ABC, recorded weather service, etc) but not so with road conditions for 4WD only tracks.
Satphone rely on satellites to work - any probs with the satellite and your phone is a paperweight. HF can access any number of base stations or other mobiles directly without the need for a relay.
HF radio creates a community spirit among the users and and people tend to help where they can. With satphone, the people who may willingly help, won't even know that you have a problem.


I have not heard of any major technical problems with the current range of HF or Satphones. The older system satphones could be more temperamental.

I personally would not travel down the main highway without both a UHF and a mobile phone as they have very different purposes. When it comes to outback travel it's too expensive for most people to have both HF and Satphone so they have to choose one or the other.

I choose HF because I can make phone calls via HF, but can't broadcast via Satphone. Secondly ongoing costs for my specific needs are cheaper on HF.

Many tour operators carry both because they can afford to. If you are going into a remote area, it's essential to carry one or the other - even if you hire it.

Sam posted:

Many thanks for the info Nigel. Much appreciated. Cheers.

John R. posted:

Totally agree with Sam and Nigel. I am lucky to have both but only because I bought a second-hand Codan for under $800.00. It's horses for courses. Both means will allow you to call for help. It's very easy to call Police/Flying Doctor on a satphone - if you have their relevant phone numbers. Regardless of distance, if you seriously need help they will organise it.

Goran posted:

Steve , i got my Globalstar Telit 550 for $900. At the time W.A. goverment was offering special rebate on sat phones for people in remote areas. I think original price was about $1900. $30 a month $2.35 a minute when in sat mode and ordinary mobile charge when in range. No one mentioned total lack of echo when using Globalstar on satelite mode. It is a quantum leap from the old sat jobs. Very clear and user friendly. Hope this helps.

Nigel posted:

The newer Codans can send short text messages, but at nowhere near the speed of satphones. I know there are companies that are looking at setting up email via HF bases for land use (similar to the sailmail network) but I fear that it may not eventuate due to lack of customers, as LEO sat phones really do have the advantage for fast data transmission. Geostationary satellites are more hassle to use than a HF :)

Nigel posted:

ISP's generally use PAS8 or PAS2 and Austar uses B3 which are all high orbit geostationary satelites.

The new phone systems use low earth orbitiing (LEO) satellites which is why their is no lag, as they are closer to the surface of the earth ( remember to duck if one is going past :)

If the LEO satellites use the same power as the Geostationary ones then they would be less affected by weather.

I don't know of anyone who has used a LEO Satphone in bad weather to prove this theory, but I thought I'd point out the differences anyway.

Sam posted:

Ah, gotcha. Was aware of the actual sat's the ISP's were using. Just wasn't aware of the orbit factor. Cheers!

P.G. (tas) posted:

Greg, I was in Alice Springs, July 2001. On a tour of the RFDS base I asked the obvious question, HF or Satphone? The response? "We are heading more and more towards Satphones and away from HF"! While it appears the RFDS is still using HF, they are obviously looking to wind down their service on HF. If emergency calls are a priority, it seems Satphones are the way of the future. PS I don't have either, yet, I'll wait a little longer and see how this discussion develops. Cheers!

Goran posted:

Greg , as far as i know , cost of HF capable of australia wide coverage is about $2.500 to $3.500 affair. You can get new sat phone for about $1900 . According to 4x4 magazines sales of this units are trough the roof and sales of HF have been in decline for past 2 years. Main trouble with HF units is the price and they are destined to go down the path of AM CB .

Nigel posted:

So what Goran is saying is that the satphone has cost you MORE after only 2 - 4.5 years (depending on the HF model). And that's assuming you've made no calls on the satphone.

Sure if you need to make lots of private calls then the satphone can be justified, but for safety and security the HF is the cheaper option in the long term.

It all comes down to your needs. Claiming that one system is better for everyone is just stupid.

Ngiel posted:

With regard to HF sales figures, I'd like to know the trend of domestic HF sales for private use, which dealers assure me are growing.

The reason for the overall decline in sales is most likely because the last major United Nations purchase of HF gear was 3 years ago.

Also Satphone sales are boosted by the fact that with every change of network, new handsets are required, so even if a satphone handset could last as long as a HF radio, it most likely would be replaced much earlier due to other factors. Most people who buy a new HF will use it for 20 or 30 years.