<span class="highlight">Battery</span> Problems

Gronk,
Thanks as in thread 480Ah Lithium batteries. 8Ahr addition (feel Solar gain only)
Advised we must deal with KK through dealer as we have done since 1st May.
Redarc BCDC1240 switch on is below 13.3V of the Lithium batteries. Redarc advised it simply will not work. We are running out of time..hence my thread.

Strange that a "Booster Diode" cured the problem when the Redarc BMS is specified to operate with an input of 9 to 32 volts. I would be communicating with Redarc about that. They have a reputation of being very responsive.

Thanks Alan that is a distinct possibility as I'm getting 14.2V at the BCDC input fuse. Just what it will drop to under load is the question. No info available re battery impedence.

Lucky Phil
No for what ever reason KK advised the Redarc Lithium charger was nor compatible with their design of batteries.. using that particular charger would void warranty of $11,000 batteries. Advised to use their straight 1240 charger. I have medical issues that draw down considerably. As such not wishing to overload 200series Alternator feel 40A charger should pretty well replace 24hrs usage. If KK would advise dealer suitable 40A BCDC charger we could go down to dealer for a few days and put problem to bed and we could take off.

Phil H,

I did a DIY lithium conversion in my Karavan and found the lead-acid dc-dc charger I had would often not start. This was because the lithium batteries have a very flat discharge curve and hold a higher voltage than fully charged lead-acid batteries until the lithiums drop below about 20% SOC. The lead-acid charger would look at the batteries, see a voltage that is at least as high as a freshly charged lead-acid battery and would decide that no charge is needed (so as not to overcharge what it thought was a lead-acid battery).

I am good mates with the engineer who designed my charger and he modified the software to suit lithium batteries and now it works a treat. Old story, it's not what you know, it's who you know :-)

Not all chargers behave the same way. My lead-acid mains charger doesn't. When I switch it on it goes straight into a charge cycle (with voltages set to suit the lithium pack).

It may be that your BCDC is behaving the same way as my DC-DC charger did before it was modified and that is why Redarc is saying it is unsuitable. If that is the case I cannot understand why Kimberley is saying you must use it.

On the other hand, the lithium version of Redarcs BCDC may be indeed be unsuitable for the lithium batteries that Kimberley uses. I suspect this is because the "float" voltage is a high 14.5 volts. That is too high for the lithium batteries I use, and it appears too high for Kimberley's as well.

I do not know why Redarc have chosen such a high float voltage in their lithium profile. According to the engineer who supplied my lithium batteries, such a high float voltage suits only a very small number of lithium "flavours". Something like 13.6V is far more commonly accepted.

I don't know how to solve your dilemma other than to advise you to look for a dc-dc charger that has fully programmable voltages (like mine) or which has a range of voltage selections, one of which is suitable for Kimberley's batteries.

A number of people in our KK owners club have had success with Sterling products.

Cheers

Duncan,
My problem is we are required to go through the dealer who is Two and a half hours south of us. They are giving it their best shot , however after spending that sort of money I'm supprised KK has not provided them with a satisfactory solution.
Perhaps my health is to blame as my machine draws 70Ah without any other draw.
Typically we use ARO 120Ah over 24hrs. The panel warning comes up at 49% . This equates to 2 full days only.. hence need to supplement from car. The 330watt solar panel contributs best so far 72Ahr. Cannot use Honda 1kva as contineous consumption 1060 VA trips Honda overload.

Ups and Downs,
I'm sure your correct.

HBK,
Will answer in order.
Yes KK fitted 480 Ahr Lithium batteries as mentioned in thread.
My load over 24hrs is 120Ahr. KK standard charger is BCDC1220
The 8Ahr charge I feel was Solar gain.
No batteries were 49% 13.3V
Check with Redarc manual for BCDC1240 as I believe battery voltage needs to below above to switch on.

13.3V would be close to the float voltage for most chargers, the charger may be seeing this and determining only float charge is required. If this is the case you may need a dumber charger or one with user settings to get around this.

Most chargers though would normally still go into bulk charge and check the charge rate and if the battery is deemed charged ie less than approxiamately 500 ma charge current at 14.4V then switch to float mode.

Frank,
Feel Ive spoken to you via ExplorOZ prevoiusly. Thanks your suggestions. The in put cabling is all 6 G.
As you can see from above replies to threads my hands are tied.
Unable to get any help from KK and even though we have had Kimberleys for 13 years we are not members of the KK owners group. It is a monitored forum I was told???
Would be very greatful if I was able to find any 40A BCDC charger KK will still cover their batteries with warranty if used.

Phil,

[quote]we are not members of the KK owners group. It is a monitored forum I was told???[/quote]

The forum is not formally monitored by dealers or factory - they do not have access. But there are some members who we know feed some content back to the Kimberley organisation.

Cheers

Frank ,
Thanks the above. In that case we will most likely join.
Just got off the phone tom Redarc again.. They say the 1220 charger uses exactly the same sensing circuit as their 1225 and 1240 standard chargers. Yet agent swears they normally fit the 1220 and they work fine. Everying in my favour means I would ONLY need to drive for aro 11-12hrs!!! to replace usage only.

Frank,
Took your advice and went to Kimberley direct. They advised they will be back to me tomorrow after speaking with their expert , presently overseas.
I will keep this thread active as I feel others may be in the same predicament.

Took your advice and went to Kimberley direct


I think that was my 1st reply. When I owned a KK and had a problem, I found Bruce Loxtons ( owns KK ) phone number and email address. Got action straight away. He was good to talk to and hates to see any KK having problems, unlike some of his employees.

Hi John,
The 8Ahr was from Solar gain only.
Ther BCDC switches on at 12.7V. Lithium batteries maitain their charge (in this case) 13.3V until they are virtually depleted. Today Redarc confirmed this point. KK will not warrant their Lithium batteries with the Redarc Lithium charger. The standard BCDC charger is only a 20A charger. To maintain batteries from previous days use I would need to run the vehicle for 11-12 hrs each day. (assuming low solar gain)
I will not begin to discuss the list of issues I paid $139,000 for the privilidge of.
To say we are dissapointed is an understatement.
Cheers Phil

Phil, as I posted my Sterling 100 amp BCDC works a treat. It does not have a charging threshold, and will take my battery from reasonably depleted to fully charged in a few hours of driving. I ran 3 fridges, freezer, diesel water heater, pumps, fans, coffee machine, microwave, toilet, etc off it a few weeks ago on Ningaloo Station, supplemented it with solar during the day, and ran the engine for about 1/2 hr at night, and was self sufficient for 2 weeks. I couldn't have done that without the lithium and Sterling BCDC setup.

Hi John,
Is your KK Karavan still under warranty. Reason I ask is they have been most specific that if we have a charger they do not approve and there is a battery issue they will not warrant. As the 480Ah batteries are worth $11,000 I'm not willing to run the risk should any issue come up with batteries.
Cheers Phil H

Phil H, the batteries are only worth $11000 because Bruce Loxton / Kimberley put that figure on them. My Winston 400 Ahr pack cost me around $3k with the BMS, relay, etc. The USD has gone up since then, but not to $11000! Bruce is very prone to inflating things. I know as I own a KK, but he has missed on business from me as he is wildly inflated at times.

Ian G,
Your info is very interesting, do you know what voltage the charger turns on at? This seems to be the reason the Redarc BCDC1240 will not switch on as KK Lithium is 13.3V right down to depleted and above charger does not switch on until it senses below 12.7V. Redarc also confirmed this. So if you could let me know switch on voltage of Projecta 40A I would be most appreciative.
Cheers Phil H