slyonnet posted:

No I'm certainly not in the market.
My stupid neighbour got one recently and the adds on TV mentioning the rear wheel drive from around $33k, it got me wondering why spend so much money if it's not even a 4wd! Especially when you can get pretty decent 4wd (cahllenger, Suzuky XL7, Terracan,..) for a similar price. And most importantly, I wanted to confirm my neighbour is an idiot. It sounds like he is from the responses I got so far.
Thanks,

SLY.

slyonnet posted:

Lucky Vic,

I would like to know how the Territory could be better off-road than the Challenger.
If you compare the manual challenger and TX AWD territory you find that the Challenger beats the territory for weight, clearance, approach and departure angles. Then of course the territory has more power and torque cause of its 4l engine (182kW@5000rpm & 380Nm@3250rpm) compared to the Challenger (136kW@5500rpm & 265Nm@4500rpm) . But then the territory doesn't come with low range and LSD at the back like the Challenger.
And then look at the price tag: excluding dealer delivery and govt charges the territory TX AWD is at $42990 and the Challenger in manual $39490. Add to that the extra cost for servicing the auto transmition of the Territory and the higher fuel consumption.

Now for $3500 cheaper with lower running costs I can get a 4wd with low range and LSD at teh back? Well I guess I'll go for that one even if the engine is not as powerfull cause the engine specs look quite reasonable anyway and the low range will certainly more than compensate for it when the Territory will be digging itself deep into the sand (sorry I forgot it can't dig itself too deep with its clearance, it just bellies up LOL).

Come Lucky Vic stop being so ridiculous and get off that forum. Except from your first answer to this post all the rest was a pile of rubbish and really not what we look for here.

Member - Davoe (WA) posted:

actually slyonnet you have claimed your neighbor is an idiot for buying the 2wd and johonno1 oh sorry the Luckster has stated that none of those "medium roaders" for want of a better term are any better. I would rather be 10k along my favourite fishing beach in one of those vehicles than a 2wd territory anyday

slyonnet posted:

Oh and by the way Lucky Vic,
before you try to tell me that the vehicles I mentioned are no better than the Territory, read again what you wrote yourself futher down that post talking about the Territory:

"Their AWD is not a real 4wd either ( no low range etc ) and it has been bagged by journos for having very average off road ability due to poor ground clearance causing big contact with boulders / ground etc."

Now that's just prove your full of sh*t and don't know what you're talking about mate.

Stay in your box will you.

slyonnet posted:

Well if you write "they are not any better" then they could only be worse or at the best equal to it couldn't they. My reply was to tell you that in my opinion they are better than the Territory. So before you comment on my ability to understand English, try to understand what you write yourself, you morron.

Lucky Vic posted:

Their AWD is not a real 4wd either ( no low range etc ) and it has been bagged by journos for having very average off road ability due to poor ground clearance causing big contact with boulders / ground etc.

Read this review.

click

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Comeon, you know everything dont you?

"average off road ability due to poor ground clearance causing big contact with boulders / ground etc"

Its not designed as a car you would take up Toolangi. Its an AWD, not a 4wd.

"Massive fuel consumption ( 16-18l/100 ) average"
same as cruisers and some other 4wds, and some AWDs.

Lucky Vic posted:

Is it really ?

Look at Kluger 12/100 !!

Now that is efficient because it has technology in its motor that Ford could only dream about.

Not designed for the tough stuff no but read the article and it copes worse in the tough stuff than all the competitors not designed for the tough stuff ;).

Oh their adverts tell a different story as well don't they ?;)

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Once again, thats manufacturer figures... The Age paper the other week had it at 15/100.

Sorry Johnno.. So why the change of name? they a$shole your other one?

Lucky Vic posted:

Read the article yet ?

Not Toyotas figures but real world figures. Care to show me this article ?? I read them all and have never heard anything like that . Not making it up are you ?

Ofcourse not LOL !!!

Johnoo ?

Lucky Vic posted:

Here is another one for you until you find your article which does not exist ;)

http://carsguide.news.com.au/news/story_page/0,8269,9732690%255E27286,00.html

Q.
It breezes down the highway but will not go as far, as easily, as its little brother off the road. It averaged 10.5 litres per 100km on the day.

Real world conditions !!

And that is with sand work..

SO lets have a look at it. I have shown you two articles of real world tests and you have shown me what ?

LOL !!!

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Care to show me this article ??
Yea go into town to the age. and go thru them yourself.

I read them all and have never heard anything like that .
yes.. youve read everything on earth johnno.

Not making it up are you ?
you honestly think I give ableepif you believe me or not? I only have 20 mins to waste getting bites out of your stupid little schoolboy mind then I go for beers. You will see what its like when your 18 to be allowed into a pub.

Lucky Vic posted:

Just as I thought truckster.

No article , no link NO PROOF !!

Read my two articles ?

That is facts and that is proof.

tool !

Member - Davoe (WA) posted:

Actually now I think of it why have you posted your question about what to replacethe Avalon with You know all the websites. I read that article and it was all there for you if you want a 4wd get the Prado if you want an AWD grab the Kluger. If you are an idiot or cant afford a Toyota Buy the Pajero, and if you really must buy Australian get the Adventura

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Lucky Vic posted this followup
No article , no link NO PROOF !!

Listen little one, Did I say I read it online? No, thats why I said to go to the age in town and read it there.

Again, do you think I care if you believe me - if you havent noticed nobody here believes you... Except your 4 different names you have registered that you back yourself up with.. Actually you may believe you are fooling people, but alas, your not.

We dont have long only 5 mins, see how many more stupid answers you can come up with.

Lucky Vic posted:

Hey they aren't my figures tool they are journos around the country as the links prove.

You have no proof.

Case dismissed , idiot truckster leave the court room please !

Lucky Vic posted:

Quote .

Q.
It breezes down the highway but will not go as far, as easily, as its little brother off the road. It averaged 10.5 litres per 100km on the day.

No need to believe me. Just use your eyes.

GaryInOz (Vic) posted:

Lucky Vic/Jonno/Johnno1, Do you actually OWN a 4WD??? Seem to have SOOOOO many "constuctive criticisms" about anything and everything that isn't a Toyota, and absolute praise for anything Toyota produce. That sort of makes me believe that you either own one of all of their range, or your are a "web wheeler" par excellence.

The Kluger is based on (and built on) the Japanese model of the Camry flloor pan. Toyota spent millions of dollars toughening up the floorpan and drivetrain to withstand the Australian conditions in the Australian built Camry. Time will tell how long it will be before the Klugers start rattling to bits.

Some of us can remeber some of the Toyotas gems, T-18, Paseo, mid series Celicas, Coronas (with the "backfire four").......

Lucky Vic posted:

Paseo was a good car !!

The rest were crap.

Kluger is quality build. Heard of the RX330 ?

same mechanicals exactly.

Do some homework before bagging a product with your what if's.

slyonnet posted:

True the car looks good and there are plenty of little gadgets in it that probably make it very confortable as well, but is that not the case for most cars nowadays. And most of those gadgets you find that you hardly ever use them anyway but you pay for them.
Seems to me like a waste of money.
Regarding the cargo space, they actually have an optional 3rd row seating. Can only imagine how small the cargo area will be once you got the seats in and how many cramps you will get sitting on them.

Member - JohnR (Vic) posted:

Come on now Baz, it was probably a 2by too at the camp site. "Still a bloody FORD" LOL Did it try and swim in the river too?

Reckon I will be pleased to see school get back again mate.

Lucky Vic posted:

ROFL !!!

Too true.

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Damn that is V8 LC100 consumption and on the heavy side for one of those as well.

and also $30,000+ cheaper than a V8 LC100 with 500,000klms on it

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Go and check redbook Johnno. They know more than you.

2004 TOYOTA LANDCRUISER.
Wagon Sahara 8st 4dr Auto 5sp 4x4 4.7i
Price when new (RRP) $81,200

Well what do you know, thats $80,000
so $80,000 - $40,000 =?

Lucky Vic posted:

LOL !!

Thats a Sahara you tool !

LOL !

Who mentioned a Sahara ?

I was talking GXL !.

Why not compare to the Lexus LX470 at 140K if you are going to do that ?

your arguments have more holes than my old footy socks.

Member - Crazie (VIC) posted:

Well Lucky, dont find if i call you luckstar do you, anway, now you have specified which model, LC V8 GXL brand new $67000 drive away, get me 1 for $55000 and I will go buy it tomorrow...

Lucky Vic posted:

Crazie Toyota Aust were advertising them for 54,990 +ORC inc rev sensors , alloys and a tow bar . Also $1000 mitre 10 voucher. If you are serious send me an email to codedmedia@gmail.com and I will get you one tomorrow . NO SWEAT !!

Member - Crazie (VIC) posted:

Just passing on what I was told when I went to the toyota dealer ship near work today after your post.We are looking for a 2nd 4wd, I wasn't presented with any offer as you have mentioned. Please let me know which dealer ship I have to ring/visit

Lucky Vic posted:

Take your pick !!

Dicount New Cars have them for $55,300 + ORC and they aren't even a dealership .

http://www.discountnewcars.com.au/Toyota/Toyota-Landcruiser-100-GXL-V8.cfm

If you can crunch and play the game you will get one for $55,000 no sweat.

Go to www.drive.com.au and place an enquiry for the V8 there to all the dealers in your area and before tomorrow close you will have one for 55k.

If you are serious that is.

Lucky Vic posted:

DRIVE AWAY !!

slyonnet posted:

I don't get it Flappan? What do you mean by "Might take some pressure off "real" 4wds if more people bought these."?

To me you would spend your money better by buying a "proper" 4wd for a similar price (see above I mentioned a few options). You'd be able to do all the things you mentioned but also have the ability to use it more off-road as well.
If you consider people that are only interested in towing boats or horsefloats and not interested in 4wdriving then maybe but then I guess some V8 commodore or Falcon would pull out a similar amount of power than the Territory and be fine for the job. Maybe not so good on slippery surface but still.

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Might take some pressure off "real" 4wds if more people bought these
I agree.

since most people buy 4wds to tow, or pickup the kids, these people could pretend they are in a real 4wd!

Mad Dog (Victoria) posted:

Absolutely, how many buy real 4x4's and never take em off the seal or confine themselves to good dirt roads. Good thinking by Ford and people have responded favourably.

Lucky Vic posted:

Good thinking Ford ??

Do you think they came up with the concept ??

They are merely following the crowd.

flappan posted:

The Territory is arguably the best of this bunch.

Territory, Kluger , Adventura.

Prior to these , if you towed a decent sized Boat, Van or Horse Float , nothing else BUT a 4wd would do.

The Subies wouldn't do it , and getting out of a paddock or up a boat ramp , in a rear wheel drive , Dunnydore or Falcon , has proved "interesting" to a few.

These type of vehicles are PERFECT for that application.

They are far more Car like then the majority of "real" 4wds. They would tackle the majority of Dirt Roads and Trails with ease.

If more people bought these in Toorak , or on the North Shore , there would be far less "4wd Bagging" going on

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Yes good thinking ford.. How many other companies do it in Australia? Remember Johnno, thats where we are.

I dont see a 2wd Prado, or cruiser, Patrol, or Pajero, or Jackaroo Etc.

Get yourself another tub of KY to beat off with little boy.

slyonnet posted:

OK,

fair enough you probably need something more than a 2wd to get your boat out of the ramp or the horsefloat out of the padock, but then that means that the rear wheel drive version of the Territory is no use their and you need the AWD. To me it's like bying a "real" 4wd and pay a lot for it. Then I guess it's everyone personal choice but my initial question was about the rear wheel drive option. Sounds like their is not so much benefit in buying one of those compared to a wagon. Which tells me that the rear wheel drive option is kind of a joke and people may buy it only to feel like they're in a 4wd and show off. I had a look a lunch time and saw a few with the AWD sticker. It only come on the sides not the back, but the majority of the one I've seen did not have it.

Lucky Vic posted:

That is becasue the majority that are sold are 2wd versions and not AWD therefore their sales figures should not be included in the AWD sales figures as they are because the cloud the real picture.

slyonnet posted:

Another pont on that one. Fair enough there is a place in the market for vehicles that can tow a decent size boat or horsefloat but don't need to be a 4wd as such. Then the problem with the Territory and the other likewise is that they are still classified as 4wd not tow vehicles and some idiots are going to buy them thinking they are 4wd and damage tracks. Even more when you look at the add. It looks like the Territory can tackle absolutely everything you throw at it like a breeze.
Thanks Ford I guess.

Truckster (Vic) posted:

KEEP UP JOHNNO1/LUCKY/TOYOTASUCKS/BACK TRACKS and others.

Now lets see who the fool is shall we?

I said
Truckster (Vic) posted this followup
Yes good thinking ford.. How many other companies do it in Australia?
KEY WORD AUSTRALIA.. THATS WHERE WE ARE... AUSTRALIA.

You foolishly dribbled once again.
-----------------------------------------
Lucky Vic posted this followup
you silly little boy.

2wd Highlander / Kluger has been in the states for 3 years ..
FOOL !
http://www.toyota.com/highlander/index.html
AS i said Ford are followers !
-----------------------------------------
YOU SAID IN THE STATES FOR 3 YEARS. We are talking about Australia hee - KEEP UP LITTLE BOY.

Now who is the fool that cant read. I said Australia, and once again you said USA.. They are not the same place. If you like america so much, 1 way fares start at $980.00

If you would like to see how much of a little boy I am, I work in Nunawading and live in Langwarrin, I'd take great pleasure in showing you how little I am...

Finance manager of a Yota dealer.. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

slyonnet posted:

Now that's probably why we see more and more of those on the road then :-). Other car manufacturers will have to get aligned if they want to keep up their sales.
Thanks Crazie to solve this mystery.

Alan S (WA) posted:

Fords superior design, equipment levels and Marketing wins over the Japs.

I wish i got water bottles with my Nissan

Lucky Vic posted:

Nice joke Alan ROFL !!!

The water bottles don't even fit in the doors in those POS vehicles.

You may wonder why the hatred of the Territory ?

Bro in law bought 4 for his IT company in Enfield and guess what . 3 of them have been off the road 6 weeks of the last 8 months with warranty issues !!!!

The other one he feels is just a lucky car as nothing has happened to it.

Funny thing is what Ford told him .

" Don;t worry they are all doing that !! . it is easy to fix " !!

Very reassuring hey . He is thinking of going to A current affair with his story.

DISGRACE !

Alan S (WA) posted:

Lighten up, that means he has 8 free water bottles to use elsewhere.

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Funny thing is what Ford told him .
" Don;t worry they are all doing that !! . it is easy to fix " !!

LMAO I have never heard suchbleepin my life.. Proof? Show me? Wheres the link?

Didnt think so whinge moan cry, toyota, tissues, wahhhhhhhhhhh

Toyota Sucks posted:

Water bottles are good

slyonnet posted:

You're right I did not think I would trigger such a hot discussion. My initial question was how do you tell the differrence between the rwd and the awd and is the rwd like a normal sedan. It deviated a bit. Ooops!
Now I'm only bagging my neighbour because knowing him he will try to take it offroad and damage the tracks for the others. I think there's a risk of that happening a lot with inexperienced people who watch the nice ad from Ford showing the Territory going absolutely everywhere and then getting the 2wd version when they see the cost of the awd and still believe it can really go anywhere. Plenty of people are bagging 4wd for damaging tracks and the environment but then ads like that are authorised without even a warning that the awd version only can do what is shown.
You're right again, surely the 2wd version offers more than a commodore for the same price and would suits the needs of some people. But then if you read carefully the discussion went more on comparing the awd version with other 4wd and in that case I still believe that the Territory can't win against the soft or medium roaders mentioned above, mainly because of lack of clearance and no low range.
Thanks for sharing your experience because it is true that so far we did not get any feedback by someone who is driving one. It is true that you should be having no problem on foresty tracks even if it gets rough cause it has this hill descent control and other gadgets for that, but I am still not convinced it would work as good in the sand or mud. Maybe am wrong and that's only my thoughts.
Anyway, enjoy it mate.

Member - Davoe (WA) posted:

I think if you clicked on some of the rig pics you would see that thee 2wd territory coment might be a bit off. Bottom line the awd falls squarely in with the rest of the burgeoning awd catogory. The 2wd has no real direct competitor that I know of so what is it a @#$ poor awd? or a good country car. They will either find a niche market with it or they will ultimitly satisfy noone. As for the rest of the crap (me included) thats just johonno1/backtracks/lucky vic sucking us bored workers in again

Crackles posted:

Davoe. As you probably already know the need for a 4x4 to see much of this country is fast diminishing as my last few trips have proved. Driving onto the Cape York ferry I pulled in behind a Falcon, Simpson Desert passed a 2WD Volkswagen & Gibb river rd a Commodore was crossing the Pentacost River. An AWD will soon be all we'll need to travell 95% of the roads.
As for the rest of the crap.......yes there were a few rolling around in the gutter, 3 cheers for the moderator.
Craig......

Lucky Vic posted:

that is why I said "others" idiot !

did I say Toyota came up with the concept ?

I don;t make ridiculaous unresearched claims like the clowns here so mate.

Stick to the FACTS !

Lucky Vic posted:

ridiculous I mean.

Have you researched it yet ?

GaryInOz (Vic) posted:

1. Enlighten me. Where is "others" in the above comment(s)? I did a cut and paste of ALL your diatribe in this thread into a word document and did a search for the word "others". Not found.......................

So, simply, you did NOT say "others", but tried to imply that Toyota had been doing it for years. Ford in the US has been doing 4WD/AWD/RWD longer. Toyota built their American Ops so they could compete in the US maket, they were already behind the 8-ball when thay started.

2. Neighbor had an "Ugly ducking 4WD" within weeks of them being released in Australia in 1973 (worked for a dealer who imported them, along with the early VW's, in Melbourne).

"ridiculous I mean.

Have you researched it yet ? "

Clearly you haven't.

Lucky Vic posted:

Don't put words in my mouth mate.

I know Toyota did not invent the concept , never said that,

I said For were following the " crowd " ... You know what a crowd is ? It does not mean Toyota .

Lucky Vic posted:

As far as the rest of your post I don't argue any of those points.

as I said i never claimed Toyota invented the concept.