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If you got more than 6" in NSW you'll be an outcast...or a HERO

Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 14:03

Bonz (Vic)

Dr Jon Jenkins MLC (jon@trac.org.au) wrote:
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Hi 4WD People

Just a short update to let you know what is happening in this respect.

After all the bad media there was a definite push on to restrict all vehicles to a maximum of 50mm lift as per some other States. However it looks like we have managed to create exemptions to this and allow up to 150mm lift. However I have to tell you that within a very short period of time all lifts above 150 mm will be banned and there will be no exceptions whatsoever. This maximum lift will include all oversized tyres, all suspension lifts and all body lift. In other words the days of seeing a Patrol or Cruiser with a big set of swampers on and with massive suspension and body lift are over and there is absolutely nothing that can be done to stop this.

The status of vehicles which are currently lifted with engineering approval is unclear at this stage. I am currently pursuing this issue further with the RTA.

The battle we are trying to fight at the moment is the categories of exemptions which will allow 50 to 150 mm lifts. The RTA at the moment are fairly aggressively pushing that motor sport and recreational pursuits will not be one of the categories! Instead they are talking about such things as agriculture, forestry and mining is being the main categories for exemptions. I'm trying to add a whole host of other categories such as builders, plumbers and electricians or anybody that has to access difficult work sites. However I am not sure how successful we will be in this effort.

Another avenue we are trying to pursue is the use of special registration for motor sport events not dissimilar to that which many of the hot rod association's have. However I have to say that the reception for this category from the RTA engineers was fairly cool!

regards

Prof Jon Jenkins MLC
Parliament House
Macquarie Street Sydney NSW 2000

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AnswerID: 137307   Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 14:51

flappa replied:

Go your hardest for Motorsport etc , but , for the life of me , I cant work out why a Builder needs a 150mm lift for their work.

IMO , They are the ones that we need to get rid of.
Reply 1 of 6
AnswerID: 137315   Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 16:55

Peter 2 replied:

In a recent conversation with one of the certifying engineers I was told that at the moment the proposed regs in the future are to be: up to 50mm lift will be owner certifiable, anything over 50mm will require engineering and a swerve test, anything over 75mm will require engineering, swerve test and the track may have to be increased in proportion to the lift with as Jon has said a max lift of 150mm.
Also a question on new rules being retrospective to currently modded vehicles.
Any current vague interpretations/anomalies are also to be defined in black and white. Comp vehicles may be able to apply for transit regs similar to rally cars to travel to comps, but as Jon said the RTA isn't really interested.
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Peter
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Reply 2 of 6
FollowupID: 391018   Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 17:03

robak (QLD) posted:

"Any current vague interpretations/anomalies are also to be defined in black and white."

Don't bet on it. If that ever happened, all the lawyers would be out of a job.

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AnswerID: 137340   Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 19:34

Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) replied:

Shouldn't the "OFFROADING" category be pushed? The building, electrician and trades line is drawing a long bow, it just trivialises the position. I would have thought that standing up for the real use, and that is 'recreation' and offroading, would add credibility to the argument! After all, it's a legitimate pastime. Michael.
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Reply 3 of 6
AnswerID: 137342   Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 20:03

warthog replied:

The Harold Scrubies and the like are having an effect. Sling enough shyte and some of it sticks.
Harold needs to be neutralised. There must be some way of discrediting his media campaign?
Reply 4 of 6
FollowupID: 391039   Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 20:15

Mike Harding posted:

We firearms owners feel much the same - where were (are!?) you when we needed you?

Oppressive legislation is not simply targeted at one group - either you challenge all of it or none of it.

Best take a nap and hope it will all be OK, don't you think?

Mike Harding
FollowUp 1 of 5
FollowupID: 391040   Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 20:55

gramps posted:


Agree with you Mike. They're slowly chipping away at selected areas that can't, singly, mount an overly effective case against them. 'Them' being the single interest groups that are extremely effective in having their views heard, and most times acted upon, by our increasingly 'sheep like' political masters.
FollowUp 2 of 5
FollowupID: 391041   Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 01, 2005 at 20:58

warthog posted:

I am also a firearm owner, however I believe this forum generally relates to 4wd's more than guns and do not see the relevance of your comment in the context of my post.

"Either you challenge all of it or challenge none of it". Why?

No, I believe Harold is constantly attacking 4wds and presents a profile of 4wds as being unsafe and a danger to other road users.

Our message is not getting accross, and negative publicity draws the attention of the beaureacrats who feel they must do something to appease the percieved unrest in the community.

Scruby is not the only voice against 4wds but he appears to be the loudest.

I don't know how to get our message accross or shut Scruby up. Maybe you do or someone else does? Maybe we should just bend over get used to more of the same more often?

FollowUp 3 of 5
FollowupID: 391076   Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 02, 2005 at 07:38

Darryn posted:

Hi Warthog, I agree with Mike on this issue. If you look back over the past 20 years the same arguments that led to John Howards obsessive waste of 1 Billion dollars are being used against 4WD's. As was stated earlier it is being driven by one or two zealots helped by a sensationalist media (usually tv current affairs) and politicians with no idea of the subject, appart from what they think the general population is thinking. If you want to be able to continue doing what you are doing now the best thing is to remind your local member (Federal/State) that you are not happy and will not vote for him if he doesn't support you. Tell them you will support an independant next time, that will get their attention. To limit the media there are a few ways but no one will support them, much the same as firearms owners will not support them.
Regd's Darryn
FollowUp 4 of 5
FollowupID: 391244   Submitted: Thursday, Nov 03, 2005 at 09:21

Truckster (Vic) posted:

>>> The Harold Scrubies and the like are having an effect. Sling enough shyte and some of it sticks.
Ive been sayin' this for years. But nobody seemed to give a bleep . Oh quick now its too late, lets panic and do something.

>>> There must be some way of discrediting his media campaign?
You think any TV station would kill off their easiest rating shows (current dribble shows) by getting on our side in any way shape or form?

The only thing I could see them doing, is undercover work, saying they are on ourside, get a few 100 hrs of footage, then turn it against us.

Grab ya ankles, and buy KY in 44's fellas the end is nigh...
FollowUp 5 of 5
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AnswerID: 137410   Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 02, 2005 at 11:37

ev700 replied:

Australia does not have a Bill of Rights so there is nothing to guarantee your rights as a citizen.

Next problem is that we are overgoverned and all of those pollies and bureaucrats have to do something.

But if you want to do something positive short term to win the hearts and minds of the people do what the bikies do, hold fun runs and sell tickets or make a collection for charity. You've got to get the attention of people first.

I think it would be smarter if we referred to our category of vehicles as AWDs, not 4WDs for two reasons: 4WDs have attracted negative publicity over years because of a lunatic fringe; and the percentage of the population owning AWDs is much higher and gives better lobbying power.

Refuse to speak about 4WDs and talk only about AWDs. Say that 4WD is an outmoded term, used by dinosaurs, the world has changed etc etc

AWD might not sound as biffy but that is the whole point. 'AWD' will not attract as many bluetail flies and removes the ground under the feet of critics who have been making a meal out of 4WD biffing.
Reply 5 of 6
FollowupID: 391134   Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 02, 2005 at 15:49

gramps posted:


You may be on to something there ev700. Our good friend HS would then have even more wriggling to do about his Subaru :)
FollowUp 1 of 3
FollowupID: 391150   Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 02, 2005 at 17:27

Muddy 'doe (SA) posted:

I heard on the grapevine that he was already copping flak over the Forester so traded it in on a BMW............

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FollowupID: 391248   Submitted: Thursday, Nov 03, 2005 at 09:26

Truckster (Vic) posted:

on the changing to AWD thing, why do you think Yota went to the AUV for the Lux, they have seen the death of the 4wd image too.

But changing to AWD, wont do squat. the perception in the public is there... Its like lots of people call any 4wd a landcruiser, or a jeep.. its a generic name.
FollowUp 3 of 3
AnswerID: 137562   Submitted: Thursday, Nov 03, 2005 at 08:37

fourstall2000 replied:

As I see it there is only one way to resist the current pressure against 4wdrivers.
That is an effective counter campaign.
The Victorian association of clubs has I believe organised a conference between all players in the 4wd industry.
If this conference is able to unite these people in a common aim, and are able to organise an effective PR program,it could be successful.
If a similar program is carried out in all states the effect is multiplied across the nation.
We need to get the manufactureres who to date prefer to ignore the problem part of this effort.
What can you do personally?drive considering others and join a club.
Regards

Reply 6 of 6
FollowupID: 391245   Submitted: Thursday, Nov 03, 2005 at 09:24

Truckster (Vic) posted:

Apparently all the manufacturers have thrown in 10's of thousands of $ for a campaign, but I cant really see what angle they will work, or how this will happen.

Infact, this was doing the rounds months ago, but have not heard squat since.
FollowUp 1 of 1

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