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Consumption experiences - 100 Series LC converting to part time 4WD

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 16:12

Vivid Adventures

I have a 100 Series GXL 4.2 Diesel live axle and am contemplating adding diff locks and converting it to part time 4WD (adding free-wheeling hubs).

Has anyone done this? (actually any similar conversion for a similar vehicle)

If so, do you have any experience about improvements to fuel consumption (on the hard top in 2WD that is)?

Any other traps for those contemplating it?

Ciao for now
Andrew.
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AnswerID: 152318   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 16:58

Peter 2 replied:

Having had cruisers with part time for the last 30 years I don't think you would save anything, it might even cost in the long run.
The vehicle has been designed to be part time, the drivetrain has been designed to share the load between front and rear not carry it all on the rear.
The costs incurred doing the mods to the transfer and free wheeling hubs would take a long while to recoup as I could never detect any increase in fuel consumption when running in high four in a troopy, which I did for weeks on end when running on dirt roads.
If you don't lock the hubs in on a regular basis you can cause corrosion on crownwheel after extended periods.
You would have to keep the vehicle for a long time to make any difference to wear on the drivetrain too.
Madigan Line 07
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Peter
1988 M1026 Humvee
Reply 1 of 9
FollowupID: 406001   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 17:16

Vivid Adventures posted:

I do about 5,000 k's per month on average, about 1/10th of that on dirt/offroad. (hubs would be locked regularly).

Part time idea is consequence of fitting Lokka lockers front and rear, requiring free wheeling hub conversion for the front. Economy was not the only objective.

Your thoughts are appreciated though and certainly are good grist for the mill.

Ciao for now
Andrew.
FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 406379   Submitted: Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 06:47

Redback posted:

Mate if thats the case then why bother, i mean if you lock the hubs in on a regular basis then what would be the point, just it constant 4WD and when you need too lock the centre diff in just push the button, bloody heaps easier.

I have a mate with a 80 cruiser constant 4WD, he reckons the differance is bugger all.

Baz.
FollowUp 2 of 2
AnswerID: 152336   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 18:11

dieselup replied:

Hi Viv
Not long had our 100 series cruiser , stock standard 1hz 2003 model GXL
Checked fuel consumption on a trip from Jindabyne / Newcastle got 12.9l/ 100km
Wondering how it compares with others around
As for the conversion all the gear you need is in the povrty pack ,just a matter of cross referencing the drive train to see what matches and what doesn't then work oout if it's the trouble and expense
good luck!
Reply 2 of 9
FollowupID: 406024   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 18:13

dieselup posted:

poor typing
should read :worth the trouble and expense
FollowUp 1 of 8
FollowupID: 406028   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 18:29

Vivid Adventures posted:

12.9l/100 is pretty good.
I can get down to about 11.5 no aircon no load and 80 km/h and soft pedalling.
load me up with people and gear like below and add air con and a need to travel at 90 or 100 and 17 is more realistic.



The poverty pack ends up being quite a different setup - even the CV joints are different it seems and none of the splines are the same, surprising as it may seem.

There are kits around to convert to free-wheeling hubs and they all utilise 3rd party CV joints and hubs and are much cheaper than sourcing stuff out of poverty packs - be it from wreckers or spare parts from T.

Ciao for now
Andrew.
FollowUp 2 of 8
FollowupID: 406063   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 20:18

Member - Bill S (NSW) posted:

YEA, Will fill mine a 2005 GXL auto tomorrow,and I mean FILL so fuel is evident in the tube.I will then drive from shellharbour to Canberra,back thru braidwood via Nerriga to Nowra and back to shellharbour then fill again to the same level and then post my findings.I will show litres used and kilometers travelled. And this will cover about 120klms dirt travell with remainder tar roads.The result will be as the cards fall fact as to what happens.We will then be able to compare with what is allready stated here.I just cant be any more upfront than that Believe it or not.

Regards BILLS
FollowUp 3 of 8
FollowupID: 406158   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 02, 2006 at 07:42

chump_boy posted:

Morning Bill,

Let me guess - it'll have a Feltch attached, so the fuel consumption will be greatly altered?

Lol - the other day it was a 94 Landcruiser. Now it's a 2005 model. I would be guessing there are a lot of suckers out there fitting Feltches...

What ever happened to the Dyno reports - you know, the ones that proved once and for all Feltches actually worked? You kind of said your piece, didn't answer any questions, then stopped the conversation. Sounds like a page out of the "How to Win an Argument with no Fact's" lesson by Harold Scrubby.

Hang on - the S doesn't stand for Scrubby, does it?

Cheers,

Chump
FollowUp 4 of 8
FollowupID: 406583   Submitted: Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 19:16

Member - Bill S (NSW) posted:

HI Guys. Well here it is,as described the trip went well excepy for the fact my vehicle was at idle for two sessions 1/2 hour first then for one hour to keep my wife cool.
A total distance of 563.8 klms was travelled with airconditioner on at all times and cruise control used where applicable,on return tank was filled to exact as before{with witness} litres used 61.63 work it out yourself and compare with others.
P/s I just had to report this as stated so I will now definetly bow out.Remember it is a 2005 NOV GXL turbo auto diesel with now 10,000 on the clock.

Regards BILLS
FollowUp 5 of 8
FollowupID: 406625   Submitted: Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 22:03

Vivid Adventures posted:

Hiya BILLS

God only knows what your 11 l/100km has to do with the question I asked, but congrats on scratching up the fifth digit. Regular sort of result for a comfortably driven TD.

Ciao for now
Andrew.
FollowUp 6 of 8
FollowupID: 407193   Submitted: Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 06:55

chump_boy posted:

Bill S,

Wow - you got 11L/100km. You must be so happy. Fuel consumption is roughly the same as my 98 GXL with 70,000km on the clock. Do a search back through the posts - quite a few people get this sort of result, and on the odd occasion do better.

Imagine how much better the consumption would be if you took off that restrictive Feltch thingy. Should save another half a litre per 100km, I rekon.

lol - Bill - you never did say if that S stood for Scrubby.......

Cheers,

Chump
FollowUp 7 of 8
FollowupID: 407210   Submitted: Monday, Feb 06, 2006 at 09:26

Member - Bill S (NSW) posted:

HEY Chump boy// The S in BILLS is for BILL SHEATHER,and just in case you did not read my report the vehicle was ideling for 1.5 hours in this fuel econamy test,and actual milage was 10.9lph cruise on and air on.A follow up will be conducted shortly with another trip out west. So dont be a chump takle notice,

Regards BILLS
FollowUp 8 of 8
AnswerID: 152353   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 19:42

udm replied:

Just do it, you know you want to :-)

I´ve done it a few months ago, to an 80series though, and it is awesome.
If you are doing it for fuel economy, forget it.
You will gain a little more power, cause of unloading the front drivetrain.
Traps... you wont have a centre diff anymore, it´ll be like a GQ, 2wd unlocked or 4wd locked. (but who wants it unlocked anyway)

Some say they will lose stability (bu$#%hit), get yourself known name tyres and you´ll be ok.

http://www.ozsigns.com/aussie/fj80tohzj80/partime_conversion/index.html

Ulises
Reply 3 of 9
FollowupID: 406052   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 19:45

udm posted:

And forgot... it´s only like $600 (if you do it yourself), so it´s not that much money, most people spend a lot more than that in cars anyway.
FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 406117   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 22:29

Vivid Adventures posted:

Hi UDM,

Thanks for your inputs.

Would be great to discuss it further - if you're happy to SMS me your coordinates on 0419900363 and I'll call you tomorrow.

Ciao for now
Andrew.
FollowUp 2 of 2
AnswerID: 152397   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 22:19

atoyot replied:

Kits that I've seen all state that they are for non-ABS equiped Cruisers, so there might be some issues with loosing the centre diff and the braking bias, ABS sensors or something along those lines. I've a 2000 GXL 1HZ and my economy varies depending if I've got the touring setup in or the short trip setup. Fully setup for a desert trip, the weighbridge told me that I was 3.7T (I know it's overweight). I averaged 17l/100 with a tar average of 15l/100k (sitting on 110 with the aerodynamics of a brick wall). With the storage unit out and the winch out on the garage floor (probably back to around 2.6 or 2.7T), I'm back to between 11 and 13 L/100K.

I thought about converting mine years ago, but I'm glad I didn't as it is so much more stable over higher speed (relatively speaking of course) loose dirt roads. I can't really quantify this as I have not driven a part-timer in the same conditions, but in my opinion, the full-timers are very stable and easier to drift slighly, and I guess. a bit less taily.

The potential slight drop in fuel consumption wasn't worth the cost or loss of stability, even if it is only my perception. Hope this helps,

Andrew
Reply 4 of 9
FollowupID: 406120   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 22:33

Vivid Adventures posted:

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your inputs. Yours has a life pretty much like mine and similar economy.

do you have lockers front, rear or both?

Ciao for now
Andrew who will look into the ABS question.
FollowUp 1 of 1
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AnswerID: 152410   Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 01, 2006 at 22:46

atoyot replied:

No lockers as yet; the rear LSD still works. What sort of lockers are you thinking about? I'd guess that it'd be something like a Detroit or Lock-Rite, which I've heard of being described as unlockers. I think with this style of locker, you could put one in the rear, but not one in the front due to constant FWD. When I made enquiries along these lines, a Detroit for the rear and an aftermarket LSD for the front (softlocker? or something similar)

If this is part of the reasoning for looking at a part time conversion, then it might be the only way with these types of lockers. If you were thinking of airlockers or any sort of manually controlled diff lock, then I'm pretty sure that you can just fit them to a Constant FWD without any problems. You just need to know when to lick them and when to un-lock them.

This is only an opinion that I formed by doing some asking around as I'm certainly not an expert, but I will be tending to lean to a manual locker first in the rear, then maybe one in the front later. I just can't understand how the LSD is still working.....

regards

Andrew
Reply 5 of 9
FollowupID: 406368   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 02, 2006 at 22:48

atoyot posted:

<You just need to know when to lick them and when to un-lock them.

I actually wouldn't recommend licking them at all - whoops!
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 152537   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 02, 2006 at 15:02

Smitty replied:

I have a 2000 model Pov Pack (free wheeling hubs). Day to day driving with a roof rack, winch, bbar, kaymar rear step, 33" tyres, 3" lift, etc... (the works) -- I get 13.5 litres per 100 klms. Mind you I have an aftermarket turbo fitted too.

I'm happy with that considering it's a big brick. When towing the CT I average around 18L-19L.

Cheers
SMITHY
Reply 6 of 9
AnswerID: 152615   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 02, 2006 at 21:13

Crackles replied:

In previous free wheel hub 4x4s (Hilux / Troopy) I found an improvment of 1 to 2 MPG & about 3 or 4 kph top end speed with the hubs out. It would take ages to see any return on the cost of the conversion. Instead put the price of free wheeling hubs towards ARB lockers. Far superior IMHO.
Cheers Craig.............
Reply 7 of 9
AnswerID: 152653   Submitted: Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 01:25

gen3rules replied:

hzj79 work vehicle averages 100km a tank more with hubs out rather than in. Average week 1000 km. I couldnt figure out why i was getting 22l/100 then after a month or so found apprentice had put hubs in consumption now about 18l/100.
Reply 8 of 9
FollowupID: 406384   Submitted: Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 07:06

Redback posted:

Which means that if he went to free wheeling hubs and had them locked in on most occasions then he would be loosing economy, rather than gaining economy eh.

At least with constant 4WD you don't have get out of the car to lock in the hubs, and with constant 4WD when you get to where 4WD is needed alot of the time you don't even need to put the centre diff in, the constant 4WD is enough, saves alot of in and out of 4WD.

Just my thoughts.

Baz.
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 152826   Submitted: Friday, Feb 03, 2006 at 20:45

95DX CRUISER replied:

95 80 series DX, stock standard apart from bull bar,towbar and 2inch lift around town 13.5 ltrs per 100km on the highway 12.5ltrs per 100km.could probably do better than these figures as i am a bit of a leadfoot !!
Reply 9 of 9