Kipor generators

If I put a block of ice in an Engal and stand it in the the sun, will it work as a thermoelectric DC generator ?? I hear the Waecko is very efficient at this, particularly if you have the later bi-refractive model.

Mike

I shouldn't comment - my names not Mike
but can I add the fridge has to be 24v model and not 12v to work that way roflmao

Well doesn't that show the advantage of the Waecko over the Engal - it can be either 12 or 24 volt - the label on mine says so :-)

Mike

Look! You guys are talking total rubbish!

It was clearly established by Hottenburg in his famous 1964 series of experiments that molecular activity stimulated by the transition process to liquid encouraged electron motion to the point of generating a electron cloud _providing_ the ambient temperature was maintained at, or below, zero K. Now as you know (or should know if you claim to have studied this area?) the formation of a electron cloud in an enclosed chamber (and the Engel is ideal here because of it’s metal construction) _will_ result in a potential difference between the chamber (Engel) and it’s contents (come on guys! that’s obvious) and the inevitable consequence of such a difference will force current to flow in the local environment which, of course, produces energy. The inescapable conclusion of this is that the Engel _will_ be more efficient and use less power from your battery. Therefore you don’t need a Kipor and this whole thread has been pointless!

Now let’s hear no more of your silly theories on this matter.

Mike Harding

yeah, Mike so if that's true how come it won't werk when used on an angle greater than the suns lunchtime angle in the winter??
It won't.... Hottenburg in his famous 1964 series of experiments proved it was not possible to leave the door closed under that amount of zero K refrigerant preasure, read the Hotties reports about electron motion under distinct molecular activity the following year....

Maybe a SOLAR system is the answer ?
Reefer fridge ?
Fullriver deep cycle agm battery ?
Now, let’s- r e a d -no more silly theories on this matter :-)
(roflmao, sorry about the hyjack)

>yeah, Mike so if that's true how come it won't werk when
>used on an angle greater than the suns lunchtime angle in
>the winter??

I assume you mean a 90 degree angle of pivotal motion – although your terminology is, to say the least, unorthodox?

It is true that Hottenberg’s (did you know he changed the family name from the Germanic/Jewish Hottenburger to Hottenberg when migrating to Israel in 1953?) 1964 conclusions were questioned by an academic from the Heidelberg School, Chilshyme Boag, who challenged that an electron cloud could not co-exist in an environment with the, not insubstantial, pressures (to which you correctly allude) created by the solid to liquid transition process at zero K. However, Mainey, (and this, I am afraid, is where you clearly fail to understand the complex subtleties of this event) Bier Kühlraum in his 1966 paper entitled (and I’m translating from the original German here) “The effect of angular pivotal motion on the crystalline process encountered during electron cloud propagation” established, beyond all doubt, that this is a quantum condition which occurs far more often than is readily recognised – and, incidentally, to get back onto 4WD stuff, regularly accounts for that one can of beer which, unaccountable freezes in your Engel when all the other don’t.

>Maybe a SOLAR system is the answer ?

Solar! – Schmolar! – You stick with Hottenberg and the Engel and you’ll be OK.

Mike Harding

Mike as you say "and, incidentally, to get back onto 4WD stuff, regularly accounts for that *ONE* can of beer which, unaccountable freezes in your Engel when all the other don’t"

Waaah, that's a reall problem, however if you used a REEFER PREMIER fridge you could freeze the lot, mine fits 6 x 6 packs under the wire basket in my 70 Litre :-) and that leaves 34 Litres to put food into and then there is the extra 16 Litres of actual seperate freezer cabinet for the icecream and frozen Barra fillets etc L0L

Mike does that mean the Engel will only freeze *one* can at a time or is it run directly off the Hottenberg lineer slider system ?

how does it go for noise?

I have only heard a 2kva honda to compare so can't say if louder or not to a 1kva. My guess is maybe a bit louder but still quiet.

Thanks Wayne for your feedback.
I have heard of these christie units. A few questions about them

1. how do they differ from useing your car alternater
2. i have heard they are 70 dB, that is quite loud isnt it.
3. what do the cost

Cheers

Everything has it's place in the market. I considered one of the battery charges at the time I was looking for a gennie. I went the gennie as:

It can be used for other purposes as well to drive 240V appliances. Charge laptop, phone and camera batteries. Run a small 240V fan we sometimes spoil ourselves with etc.
The battery chargers I saw were noiser than the better generators. Don't know if this is true for all.

Didn't worry me that I needed a good 3 stage battery charger. I needed (had) one any way to charge the batteries well when I have access to 240V (home, caravan park occasionally, drop in on friends and rellies while travelling.

Others will have a routine that suits the 12 Volt petrol charger. For me, I prefer the gennie.

Freezer

To answer your questions

I dont know the exact cost. Check
www.christieengineering.com.au or
fridge-and-solar.net

70dB is slightly more noisy than the new super quiet generator sets but you dont need to run them for very long (I run mine for 1 to 1.5 hrs./day) and also because it is generating DC you dont have to worry about frequency, this means after about 10 minutes ( it takes about 10 minutes to reduce the initial high current output) you can reduce the engine speed; reducing noise, fuel consumption, and engine wear.

As for using your car alternator, This is a big NO NO. Why would you run an 80hp or more engine to do about 3hp of work? This is not a very efficient use of fuel and is extremely detrimental to an engine, especially a diesel. It will cause bore glazing which can quite often lead to high oil usage. Diesel engines like to be run at the correct operating temperature and generally better than about 75% to 80% load, this cannot be achieved by running the alternator only.
Hope this helps to answer your questions.

Happy camping

Wayne

Wayne. Interested in that you made up your own, also did the same about 12yrs. ago.
Did you direct couple the alternator?I used a 4 1/2 hp Honda belt driving a N/Denso alternator at 3500 rpm, engine 2800.
Is the Bosch internal/external regulated? The Denso is external and it took quite a while to get a regulator charging arrangement to suit single and multiple battery charging.
When long term camping it uses around 5l./week to maintain batteries operating 60l. Trailblaza as freezer, 20w. halogen lights, invertor for laptop, radio.
Runs about 1-1 1/2hrs./day. Made a muffler from 2 large oil filter canisters, noise not a problem. Is fixed in the back of the vehicle and all hard wired/fused.
kesh

Kesh

I am using a 3.5hp Honda with a belt drive to a 42 amp Bosch external regulated alternator and Bosch regulator. At full throttle the motor runs at 3600 rpm and the pulley sizes are 125mm on the motor and 100mm on the alternator. The Bosch regulator has a very small wire bridge undeneath near the epoxy resin, if this wire is cut the regulator will control the voltage at 1 volt higher than the normal 13.8 volts, this is the same as running a charger on boost and will not damage any battery regardless of battery type. I dont have any trouble charging multiple batteries, I have had 4 different size batteries, 2 Engel fridges, and a Trailblazer fridge (all running as freezers) connected at the same time with no problems running like this for 10 days. I have an ammeter on mine so that I can see when the current is reducing, I turn the motor speed down as the current reduces and can get the motor speed to a fast idle, this saves fuel and reduces noise. I carry a 250 watt invertor to charge batteries for the phone, camera, laptop, cordless drill, and torch. I have installed a LINK 10 battery monitor for the auxiliary battery which tells me how many amphours I have used out of the battery and it also tells me when the same number of amphours have been put back in by the generator so I can then switch the generator off instead of running the generator trying to charge a fully charged battery.
I have used 240 volt systems but have found this to be the safest and most efficient system for camping, no 240 volt leads running around the camp waiting to bite someone and also safer when there is a bit of moisture around. Others on this Forum seem to like the 240 volt systems and I guess each person has to find a system that suits their needs, but while they are running their 240 volt systems for a minimum of 8 hours or more per day I only run mine for maybe 1.5 hours. I hope this information is of some value to you.

Happy camping

Wayne

Thanks for that Wayne. I originally used the reed type regulator the alternator had, then the early RE55 Bosch, now the later type with the bridge. I cut the bridge and soldered a wire to each side with a switch so I can vary the charge 13.8 -14.8v. I can also switch out the reg. and switch in a wire resistor (from an old reed reg.) which will increase the charge voltage to 15.5v. at 8a. From Marine info. an equalising charge of around 15v. at low a. is required to fully charge a wet cell battery.
Like yours, I reduce revs as the charge comes up. Also have volt/ammeter to keep an eye on things. I use a Bosch marine solenoid to connect main/aux. systems and a manual switch to connect extra batts. Our long term camp is up to 3-5mths. with no battery problems.
I am in n.nsw. Can you tell me where you obtained the Link 10 monitor please?
Thanks kesh

Hi Kesh

I bought the LINK 10 from Val Rigoli. Web address

www.fridge-and-freezer.net

Happy camping

Wayne

Hi Kesh

Sorry, wrong adress. Try www.fridge-and-solar.net

Happy camping

Wayne

Thanks Wayne. Will make contact with them
kesh

Is this Projecta charger regulator suitable to use with the unregulated 12v output from a gennie?

Stephen.

You would really need to check with Projecta to be sure.

Most basic chargers also provide rectified AC (rather than DC) which is what the Generators provide, so in theory it should work.

Mike

And if I was selling batteries I would say the same but it's purely a bottom covering exercise.

I can only speak for my GMC gen. which is probably worse than Honda et al in this regard but from memory, when connected to a battery it's producing a terminal voltage of about 17V and has a current capability of 8 amps. Now 17V is outside the spec. of the batteries you mention above (15V max) but I don't think it matters _providing_ the charging voltage is not so high that it causes an insulation breakdown within the battery. What is much more important is the total energy being forced into the battery and particularly the portion of that energy which is dissipated as heat within the battery case rather than being converted into chemical storage, it’s excess heat during the charging process which will cause problems. The quoted 90Ah battery has a maximum charging current of 22A at 15V or 330W - my GMC gen can do 17V at 8A or 136W which is only 41% of the battery's absorption capability. I don't think larger AGMs or SLAs will mind at all about being charged from the DC output of a gen.

Mike Harding

I think the problem only occurs when the battery approaches full charge.

Because this output is constant current (like a solar panel) it will continue to pump the full 8 amps into the battery forever - unlike a regulated constant voltage charger where the current will automatically reduce as the battery approaches full charge, thereby reducing power dissipation in the battery.

Mike

Certainly a battery should not be left on charge from a gen for extended periods but that is the same with any charger (float excluded) which does not electronically monitor the voltage and reduce it's charge current accordingly. Once the battery is fully charged then 100% of the charging energy will be converted to heat but one soon learns a rough "rule of thumb" approach to charging a battery in this manner and the timings are not critical - a bit of overcharge won't kill the battery, a 90Ah battery is a _big_ thermal mass - just try lifting the buggers! :)

Mike Harding