Member - Andrew(WA) posted:

I never said it was good value!!!

Gramps (NSW) posted:

Andrew,

I was'nt having a go at you. Just remarking how Nissan have the hide to charge customers big $$$$s to fix a known major problem with their product.

Member - Andrew(WA) posted:

No worries gramps...

Member - Blue (VIC) posted:

Totally unsubstanciated Barnesy but here goes...

Talking with my boss this morning, the proud owner of a 3.0l Pootrol, giving him the usual curry about the potential for the big bang. He had it serviced last week and put the question of the bang to his dealer, dealer response was that 103 3.0 engines Aust-wide have gone bang. Yes it's 264th hand but thought it worth a mention.

MATT.D(WA) posted:

Barnesy,

We have to buy 4wd's with these small engines cause this seems to be the way they are going. No-one complains about the prado, Hilux, Pajero, Triton etc; I think that these engines have proven themselves but Nissan may have engineered a suspect type of engine regardless of the size of it.

Cheers Matt.

StephenF10 posted:

Isn't it about time we stopped assuming that small engines are unreliable just because they're small? If a modern small engine is producing the same power and torque as a large engine of a few years ago, the manufacturer obviously would have strengthened the smaller engine to take the increased stress. The proof is the many small, powerful diesels out there that are NOT blowing up - Disco TD5 and TDV6 2.7, Merc 2.7, Pajero 3.2, Jeep 3.0, Pathfinder 2.5, and of course probably 99% of Patrol 3.0s.

Stephen.

Barnesy posted:

I'm not saying smaller engines are unreliable. Many people are happy with them.

But the GU is a massive car (truck), and to power it with 4 cylinder 3 litre buzz box seems ridiculous.

The 3l may have a slightly better fuel economy on the highway with no load, but surely the bigger engine would be less stressed under heavy work?

My GQ 4.2 TD42 has 230 000 on the clock and drives beautifully. I don't care if it's slow it could tow anything for any distance and come back for more. Never in a million years would i consider buying a 3 litre GQ for heavy off road work.

There's a reason why Toyota only have big sixes in their Landcruiser

Barnesy posted:

sorry
Lancruiser range

Member - Roachie (SA) posted:

What Barnsey said!!!!!!!!!

And somebody up above said the Patrol is nearly 2 tonne..........r u kidding me???

They start life at about 2400kg b4 they put diesel in the tank or oil in the sump or air in the tyres!!!! You've only gotta do a big dump on the back seat and the scales will tip @ 3 tonne (from bitter experience!!! hahahaha)

Member -Dodger posted:

Roachie's right My 4.2 Runs around 3 tonne Mt what with BBar Tbar and all the other stuff on and in it.
Plus it hauls a 2t van .

Muddy doe (SA) posted:

My Prado is 2200kg kerb weight before fuel and passengers. The 3.0 TD is a lovely match to it. Getting the same size Nissan motor to haul a GU around would seem to be a much bigger ask.

Muddy

120scruiser (NSW) posted:

Blue
103 in the whole country, maybe 103 in that dealership.
My dealer, (My supplier) stated to me one day , "You should see them (Patrol 3.0) lined up out the back of the workshop. They're a real problem"
I have had 5 customers with them that have gone bang alone , one twice, and how many repairers are there in the country?

I think they were pulling your pudin.

120scruiser

Member - Blue (VIC) posted:

120scruiser,
not my leg being pulled mate, my bosses... Personally if I were to buy a Patrol, it'd be the 4.2TD. Just relaying, as stated, 2nd hand news as told to him by his dealer. he was shocked when I told him to be careful and to be vigilant about the warning signs. I'll be sticking with DC utes as they suite my requirements for the time being.

Muzzgit (WA) posted:

DO A SEARCH. You will find a whole day worth of reading, although most of what you find will not be worth reading.

My mates brothers aunty's nextdoors sons girlfriends father knows a bloke....blah blah blah

Has this subject ever been researched and printed in a reputable newspaper or on TV....

NOPE.

Yes some 3.0 patrols have gone KABANG, but nowhere near as many as people on this forum will tell you.

If all the stories were true there would be a 3.0 patrol with a blown donk in every suburb, and there aint!!!

Waynepd (NSW) posted:

"Has this subject ever been researched and printed in a reputable newspaper or on TV.... "

A reputable WHAAAT!!!!!!

Member - bushfix posted:

From chewing the fat with club members, i have heard the same info as Ian S.

Found this on the web too, our John R?

"3 Litre Turbo Diesel GU Patrol
John R' writes [11/2000]:- Nissan have yesterday recalled the 3.0L Patrol. This is to uprate oil capacity in the engine to 8.2L, an 2.5L increase, also "oil delivery characterisitics" (new control pressure valve). Nissan claim for long term durability of the engine the mod's must be performed. Also from around the traps, the 3.0L engine is proving very unreliable, with Nissan have shortages of parts. 1. Fan belt idler bearing, either seizes or sheers off (both mine and my brother's have done this out on a track. 2. AC compressor seizes - mine did when the car was 3 days old combined with 1. 3. Front splash tray in front of the engine snaps off when you are 4wding. Nissan have no stock of any of the 3 in the country. My Patrol (one of the first registered in Australia and featured on [4wdonline]) has now been off the road and sitting in Nissan for 5-6 weeks total since it was purchased in April.

Nissan au replies that: The 3.0 litre turbo diesel Patrol is undergoing a "service programme" (not a recall) which involves modifying the characteristics of the engine oil circulation. "This programme has been initiated in the interests of ongoing customer satisfaction and continued product reliability and will be carried out free of charge to the customer." There are no problems sourcing parts. "

from here

prolly been posted before given the topic :)

fisho64 posted:

add to the end of that;

"3.0litre 4 cylinder in a big wagon"

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

But there are plenty of other 2 tonne + vehicles with 4 cylinder diesels under the bonnet that have no problems at all, like the prado for example. Power output from the TD42 and ZD30 is not that different.

In saying that, I used to drive a ZD30 wagon for work and although it deffinatally had more power than the ol' surf (same size motor) the surf is a much better vehicle to drive and it's 15 years old! And before we start on the weight difference between them, I'd be happy to bet $100 right now that my surf as I have it now would weigh more than a stock patrol without a doubt.

I can't quite put my finger on what it was, maybe the uncomforatble seats, or the fact that there is awful turbo lag in them, I dunno, but I'd hope out of the work one, jump into mine and go "aaarrggh, that's better". I do give nissans a lot of flack (it's my obligation as a Toyota owner) but in reality this is the first Toyota I have EVER owned and I have owned 3 nissans in the past. I always loved the way nissan's drove, the way the power came on, the handling, comfort etc etc. I just found the GU 3.0L didn't quite meet my Nissan expectations.

I'm not trying to start a bleep fight, I'm sure they are a great vehicle (GU's) and one of the last with a rigid front end, so you gotta appreciate that, but I don't think generalising that 4cylinder diesel's are the problem is really hitting the nail on the head, I think the ZD30 had deisgn problems with it that could have been solved my Nissan admitting there was a problem and dealing with it correctly. I also think that the motor and auto gearbox (the only GU I've driven) really needs to some R&D to make it drive like it should. The delay when you put you foot down off the mark is disgusting almost to the point of being dangerous in traffic and the gear box never wants to lock into a gear, it's constantly floating around on the torque converter.

I certainly wouldn't buy one, mainly because I know for a fact that Nissan are going to deny that there was ever a problem with it and even if it is a remote chance of it having turbo or head or cylinder problems, I couldn't afford to put a new motor in one... People buy diesels because they are supposed work horses, not because they a cheap. I'd be upset with a barina that had major mechanical problems before 100k, ned alone a $60k diesel "truck".

fisho64 posted:

Jeff, definitely all you are saying there rings true regarding drivability.
But here are the factory figures.
top of the range Prado Grande kerb weight is 1980 to 2170, while highest spec 3.0 patrol I could find is 2480. Oddly though the GVM for both is around 3000? (Prado 2900, patrol 3000)

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Yeah fair enough, but the figures of power output are relative too:

ZD30: (Patrol)
Maximum torque 354Nm @ 2000rpm
Maximum power 118kW @ 3600rpm

TD42: (Patrol)
Maximum torque 360Nm @ 2000rpm
Maximum power 114kW @ 3600rpm

1KZ-TE: (Prado)
Maximum torque 343Nm @ 2000rpm
Maximum power 96kW @ 3600rpm

I know the surf was 2.2 tonne without the two extra batterys, water and fuel tanks empty, no recovery gear, tools, stroage box or roofracks. I went of the weight bridge with everything removed at the tip while I was rebuilding the storage box and that was the outgoing weight on the docket. So with everything in and full, we'd be over two and a half tonne. Packed for a trip, god knows what we would be!?

fisho64 posted:

That kind of shows that Toyota are getting a more sensible amount of power and work out of a similar capacity engine. Like it or not, they all use the same basic technology, and wringing extra power out is a compromise elsewhere.

Im certain that with a bit of R&D you could get a lot more out of the patrol motor (or 1KZ) but its a trade off. Maybe NIssan were painted into a corner that they had spent so much on development that they had to release it in the Patrol with that output?

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Yeah I dunno, they are a totally differnt deisgn. I mean the ZD30 is only using 17:1 compression ratio versus the 21:1 in the 1KZ, it's totally different technology. Common rail injection is also another form of getting more power out of diesels without neccesserily lowering reliability.

By saying that getting more power out of a diesel is a trade off, then what about the TD 100 series? That's got WAY more power than the TD42, does that make it less reliable? Is a 1.8L VVTI Corolla less reliable than a 2.0L Escort? I'm sure the Corolla has double the power of the escort.

fisho64 posted:

Lower compression only means it handles higher boost. That is hardly totally different technology.
Common rail-which company has exclusive rights to that?
A corrolla with Variable Valve Technology is hardly similar to an old escort is it?
Then again the 1 KZ came out quite a few years before the ZD30 I think?

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

"Common rail-which company has exclusive rights to that? " I didn't know anyone had exclusive right to common rail... Everyone is using it now days, from Hyundi through to Toyota and Nissan.

"A corrolla with Variable Valve Technology is hardly similar to an old escort is it?
Then again the 1 KZ came out quite a few years before the ZD30 I think?"

That's my point. To look at the engine in a 2000 patrol versus the 1KZ-TE that was put into production in 1993 is not exactly comparing apples for apples. A 2005 Corrola is not the same as a 1977 Escort. The engine's both have 4 cylinders and are similar sizes, but just because one has newer technology and more power does not make it any less of an engine reliability wise.

The ZD30 and 1KZ-TE are a completley different design. Variable vain turbos, electronic servo throttle controls and a wave of electronic enhancments and a much more complicated ECU are just the start of the differences. The ZD30 also uses a premixed combustion setup rather than the traditional diffusion combuistion (like what the 1KZTE would use). That is the reason for lower compression rations as the timming is totally different to a tradtition direct injected diesel with far less pressure in the the combustion chamber and the point of ignition, hence allowing the fuel air mixture to be cooler and therefore reducing emitions (same principle as the EGR would use by reciculating CO2 into the chamber to reduce the ignition temperature to produce less NOx). The lower compression ratio also allows the engine to rev more freely making it act and feel more like a petrol engine to the driver. (one of the goals nissan were striving for while developing this motor).

The problem Nissan had IMHO is not putting too smaller motor in the patrol but biting off more than they could chew and releasing it too early.

fisho64 posted:

Jeff, sorry that you may have the wrong idea, I did not ever mention, compare or analyze the 1KZ. Or common rail.
Only saying that the ZD30 in the patrol cant seem to (for whatever reason) provide the reliability and general acceptance of the public?
Correct me if I am wrong but is this same engine in the Navara and do they have the same problem? That may narrow it down?

Muzzgit (WA) posted:

Fisho. Same motor in the Navara but not intercooled and not variable vane turbo like the pootrol.

Member - Roachie (SA) posted:

Yes............ but a lot of people don't know how the 'series' of the GU's actually work. In the diesels, series 1 was the 2.8TDi and the 4.2 n/a. Series 2 saw the introduction of the great new 3L motor and the addition of the hairdryer to the old banger 4.2. From there on I get a bit confused........couldn't even tell what series they're up to at present.....don't care!!!! hahahaha

Muzzgit (WA) posted:

That's what I've heard from a mech around the corner....wrong oil !!!

4 Detonations 564km posted:

120scruiser
Could you please supply me with the nissan dealers details that you contacted concerning the $4500 engine for a Nissan Patrol.I also have a blown engine and are getting no joy from Nissan. If I can speak with the service manager from this dealership I can find out what steps need to be taken with Nissan to get the motor replaced.
Cheers Darrell

120scruiser (NSW) posted:

Hi Darrell
Please email me direct at l o n a r d s a t b i g p o n d d o t n e t d o t a u
I will talk via email
Cheers
120scruiser