AGM battery charge from vehicle

Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 15:12
ThreadID: 36824 Views:4980 Replies:10 FollowUps:13
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I have stuffed an 18 month old Fullriver 100 a/h battery by allowing it to go down to 9 volts whilst towing a van with a Waeco compressor fridge running and a light or two left on. . To replace I have been offered a Exide - (Sun-lite 100 amp hour) for just under $300. Anyone know of these batteries? Any good?
Also , is it possible (or safe) to charge an AGM from the car battery when running (understand the need for Andreson plugs, contact breakers, correct wiring etc). How can I stop cooking the AGM battery in the van when using output from car alternatior. ?
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Reply By: Notso - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 16:00

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 16:00
Talk to the people at ARRID they make a thing called the "Twin Charge" and I think they have a model that suits AGM batteries.

I have one in my van and it manages the charge to the Sealed Lead Acid.

If you get one make sure you actually talk to the makers because there are slight differences in the charge rates and voltages depending on your battery type apparently.
AnswerID: 189307

Reply By: Robin - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 16:19

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 16:19
I'd be looking further for the cause of failure Waldo

You won't cook battery that way, unless something else wrong, or you have let it go flat lots of times.

The battery will charge by direct parallel connection to car , but this charge is
lot less than can be done with right set up.

Robin Miller
AnswerID: 189311

Reply By: ozdragon - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 18:41

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 18:41
Try This


Redarc Battery isolator

Peter
AnswerID: 189341

Follow Up By: ozdragon - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 18:42

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 18:42
www.fridge-and-solar.net/other.htm

Thats better
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FollowupID: 446845

Reply By: Grandpa joe - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 19:35

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 19:35
Hey Waddo,
Last time I checked you could purchase an Appollo Yuasa 96 amp hour battery from Appollo Batteries at Seven Hills NSW for $165.00 , I have had one for the last three years and has performed faultlessly. Don't be ripped off by battery shops!
AnswerID: 189354

Reply By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 20:41

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 20:41
Hi Andrew,

I would also like to know why it failed.

9 volts is not unheard of for an AGM to come back to life. They are designed for this. 300 cycles at that sort of voltage.

Sounds like a crook battery.

Read PostID: 32370

I do a 'Van Kit' to charge batteries in the van.

Regards Derek.
AnswerID: 189369

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew W (VIC) - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 21:06

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 21:06
Thanks Derek - sent you an e-mail with more details
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Follow Up By: Lorne - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 22:29

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 22:29
Hey Derek
Is it possible to discharge a agm gel 100%, this is the info I got from that Haze battery info and they reckon it will do it 800 times.

Lorne..........
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FollowupID: 446898

Follow Up By: Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 07:13

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 07:13
Yes it is but remember 100% discharge is around 9.5 Volts and you can only do this 300 times not 800.

The cycle life increased to 1500 times at 10.5 volts.

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FollowupID: 446917

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 09:51

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 09:51
"Is it possible to discharge a agm gel 100%, this is the info I got from that Haze battery info and they reckon it will do it 800 times. "

- you can't have an "AGM Gel" - it's git to be one or the other.

The Haze Datasheet for the UPS series AGMs shows that if you discharge 90% (10% remaining) then it will give 200 cycles.
20% discharge ( 80% remaining) gives 1200 cycles i.e. 4.5 times as much output and 1/6th as many cycles)

The Absorbed Power AGM Datasheet claims 400 cycles at 100% discharge.
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FollowupID: 446947

Reply By: Eric Experience. - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 21:38

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 21:38
Waddo.
Where abouts in Vic are you? I would like to see the battery and test it. Eric
AnswerID: 189381

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew W (VIC) - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 22:04

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 22:04
Thanks Eric - test results today showed following: inital volts 9.0, on charger would only charge at 'float' and then only taking 1 amp. Slowly crept up to 2 amps, but would only reach 13.1 volts. At that stage output was 12 amps. I think its stuffed!!
Have to admit I have discharged it fully a few times (ignorance!)
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FollowupID: 446885

Follow Up By: Eric Experience. - Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 23:17

Wednesday, Aug 16, 2006 at 23:17
Waddo.
Sounds more like a problem with your charger, still like to see it. Eric.
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FollowupID: 446910

Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 08:01

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 08:01
I was under the impression that when you connect a charger to a flat battery the charger starts off at high amps and as the battery charges the amps go down not up as you stated.

BTW we have the Arrid for charging our battery in the camper, it's a very good smart charger and we only have an el-cheapo 75AH lead acid deepcycle battery in the camper, it's 2yrs old now and has been flattened quite a few times and still bounces back good as new.

At home we use a Battery Fighter 1.25amp charger to keep it maintained.

It runs a 3 way fridge on the move and 4 lights and the water pump while camped with the odd DVD when we are alone.

Baz.
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FollowupID: 446924

Follow Up By: Redback - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 08:06

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 08:06
I forgot to add my auxillery battery in the car is a 60AH Fullriver and so far no probs, i got it from Fridge and Solar, they seemed to think it was fine to charge from the car via our TRAXIDE TRONICS dual battery system.

Baz.
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FollowupID: 446925

Follow Up By: Paul(ACT) - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 09:04

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 09:04
the odd DVD when we are alone.???
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Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 09:36

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 09:36
" initial volts 9.0, on charger would only charge at 'float' and then only taking 1 amp."

Andrew - I assume this was done on a sophisticated charger - if so this is not a charger or battery fault. These chargers have a protection mode for deeply discharged batteries - if the voltage is less than 11 volts they will put in a VERY current to bring the battery up very slowly with minimal further damage.

" Slowly crept up to 2 amps, but would only reach 13.1 volts. At that stage output was 12 amps."

It sounds like one cell has shorted out due to reversal during over-discharge.

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FollowupID: 446942

Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 09:30

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 09:30
"Have to admit I have discharged it fully a few times (ignorance!)"

It depends on on what you mean by "discharging it fully"

Discharging 100% of batteries capacity (0% remaining ) means stopping discharge when the voltage drops to 10.8 volts WHILE IT IS DRAWING 5 AMPS. The voltage will recover to a higher level once you stop discharging.
AGMs which have been 100% discharged should still survive a 100 cycles.

It sounds like what you've been doing is over-discharging it and possibly causing voltage reversal on some cells.

A better Isolator or charger won't help - what you need is a low-voltage cutout.

Andrew
AnswerID: 189436

Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 12:52

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 12:52
"Also , is it possible (or safe) to charge an AGM from the car battery when running (understand the need for Anderson plugs, contact breakers, correct wiring etc). How can I stop cooking the AGM battery in the van when using output from car alternator"

The only problem you will have cooking an AGM is if it's mounted in the Engine Compartment. They are more prone to this than wetcell or Gel.

If mounted in a Trailer, undercharging will be the only problem, but easily fixed by using wire of adequate thickness (which depends on what other loads will be running). AGM's are much easier to charge at low voltage compared with Wetcell Deepcycles. You can fully charge an AGM from 13.8 volts in 4 hours.
AnswerID: 189472

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 15:15

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 15:15
Are we talking about a surge or deep-cycle battery here - the latter should be able to survive that easily ??
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FollowupID: 446999

Reply By: Spike me - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 15:20

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 15:20
If you get a Cat battery you will get a 5 year warranty on it for a 4WD. The purchase price for my LC Troopy was $175 from a cat dealer. It is replaceable for failure for the first 2 years and then the warranty covers 80%, 60% and 40% for the next 3 years. I purchased it fom a Cat dealer 2 months ago. They are designed with built in strengthening in th eplates that is designed to put up with massive vibration. A must for anyone doing a lot of off road and corrugated roads.

*Please note that this is not a deep cycle battery.
AnswerID: 189502

Reply By: Lorne - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 16:51

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 16:51
Is there such a device that would do a 3 stage charge to the house battery if it was connect after the dual battery solonoid. The crank battery would get everything it needed from the alternator then once the redarc (example) connect both batteries then the house battery would start a 3 stage charge. Would this work ?

Lorne.........
AnswerID: 189527

Follow Up By: Member - Mike DID - Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 20:37

Thursday, Aug 17, 2006 at 20:37
That's what an ARRID mentioned in Reply 1 above does.
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