Landcruiser v Patrol

Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 18:20

Plasnart

Good afternoon everyone,

I am currently looking at buying my first 4x4 and have whittled my selection down to what i consider two very good vehicles - the Toyota 79 series Landcruiser and the Nissan GU Patrol ute. And there lies my problem. Everywhere i turn for advice, it's either "Don't even look at Landcruisers" or "You'd be mad to buy a Patrol". This is due to the HUGE Toyota v Nissan allegiance and rivalry that exists between owners of these vehicles. i now realise these vehicles command absolute devotion from those that own them and I'm finding it very difficult to get non-biased advice in relation to them.

So if there are any Niki Lada drivers out there (or those who aren't blinded by faith!!) i would really appreciate some straight-down-the-line advice on the pro's and con's of each of these vehicles.

I submit this request hoping it won't start WW3, but then again, it might make for some good reading!! Thanks in advance!
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AnswerID: 205637   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 18:55

Hairy replied:

"You'd be mad to buy a Patrol"
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Reply 1 of 21
FollowupID: 465656   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 08:28

handy posted:

couldnt help yourself hey, cheers
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FollowupID: 465672   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 10:37

Hairy posted:

Hows the clutch?
Ill email you about the 9th.
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FollowupID: 465688   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 12:37

Hairy posted:

The kids reckon your a movie star Handy!!!
Saw you on TV Saturday!
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FollowupID: 465690   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 13:00

handy posted:

yeah mate, autographs are $10 each or 2 rum cans.
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AnswerID: 205638   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 18:55

Member - TonyG (Qld) replied:

Hi Plasnart,

My first coment would be both vehicles are very good, and it possibly would come down to the following:

- Patrol 3.0ltr good power for little engine, high tech
- Patrol 4.2 same power as 3.0ltr, low tech
- Landcruiser little less power but can be fixed in the bush with a bit of wire. Probably a little bit more truck feel than Patrol

If you are looking to trash the car in the push, and comfort and speed are not as important as reliability, then I would suggest the Lancruiser. But if you are over 6 feet tall, maybe cruiser will feel a bit squashy

I say this being a non biased Patrol owner

Thanks

TonyG
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FollowupID: 465601   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 19:01

Member - Phil G (SA) posted:

Tony,
You may have missed that he's buying a traytop - hence no 3litre and Landcruiser TD has more power.
2012 VDJ200 Landcruiser
2003 TVan
2008 VW Tiguan TDi
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FollowupID: 465602   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 19:05

Member - TonyG (Qld) posted:

Hi Phil G,

Then I would probably go the Landcruiser unless Cabin size is an issue.

I had a mate who had a 79 series, and whilst I found the cabin a bit squashy, he could say enough good things about his car.

So I would go on the opinion of a mate who I trust and go for the Landcruiser

Thanks

TonyG
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FollowupID: 465606   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 19:29

Member - Phil G (SA) posted:

Hi Tony,
Al the traytops are a bit squashy in the cab, and its a pain that the seats can't recline. Do you know whether your mate had the 75series or the 79series - the 79series took over in 1999, and the cab got an extra 5 inches of room. My son is 6'8" and fits in my 79series fine, so I wonder whether your mate had the 75series.
2012 VDJ200 Landcruiser
2003 TVan
2008 VW Tiguan TDi
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FollowupID: 465620   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 21:07

Member - TonyG (Qld) posted:

Hi Phil,

You are right, I should have said 75 series

Thanks

TonyG
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AnswerID: 205640   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 19:11

Footloose replied:

Forget the brand and look at which vehicle suits your requirements and pocket.
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FollowupID: 465605   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 19:25

Member - andrew B (Kununurra) posted:

was thinking the same myself - if only you could test drive them blindfolded, then buy the one that feels and drives the best for your requirements

then buy the patrol - just kidding
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AnswerID: 205641   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 19:22

Member - Phil G (SA) replied:

I was in the same boat as you 2 years ago, and If I were to do it all again, I'd be happy with either vehicle.

If you are buying new, you're actually considering 3 vehicles - the new 79series replacement will be out early next year with a turbo V8 diesel, and maybe an automatic option.

In favour of a 79series factory TD:
- more payload (1240kg) and stronger chassis than Patrol
- Efficient 24valve TD motor - will get 2l/100k better than the Nissan
- Max torque at 1400rpm; and you can add a Dtronic; Patrol's max torque is at 2000rpm
- resale is very good
- old fashioned timeless styling if thats what you want
- slightly narrower
- Better view over the bonnet - you will sit higher
- more rom in the cab than 75series Cruiser
- Nice ride - better than the Prado I owned before
- Easily accommodates under tray toolboxes; tanks and spare tyre
- Can easily add a 3rd fuel tank to take it to 270litres.

In favour of the Patrol:
- Simple motor, with minimal electronics - Toyota motor is EFI
- Choice of coil or leaf rear springs; but coil spring housings can crack unless reinforced.
- Slightly wider track
- will take a 1950 wide tray - Cuiser trays are usually 1850.
- "modern" interior, and exterior styling if that is your preference
- I think you now have an airbag option.

I decided on the LandCruiser because I like the TD motor, and the strong H150F transmission, and the payload.

Cheers
phil
2012 VDJ200 Landcruiser
2003 TVan
2008 VW Tiguan TDi
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AnswerID: 205649   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 20:11

Kev M (NSW) replied:

Bite the bullet and buy an F truck,
After all Ford did win Bathurst ha ha ha ha ha

Kev
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FollowupID: 465615   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 20:36

Hairy posted:

Yeh your right!!!
Thats the third time a falcon won in 25 years. Ha Ha Ha
Hairy
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FollowupID: 465637   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 22:52

Kev M (NSW) posted:

But thats 3 times more than Toyota and Nissan
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FollowupID: 465640   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 23:11

cackles posted:

holden trained too!!!!
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FollowupID: 465644   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 23:57

Member - Phil G (SA) posted:

Kev, sorry Nissan won Bathurst in 1991 - But a lot of people didn't want to know about it :-((
2012 VDJ200 Landcruiser
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FollowupID: 465651   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 06:29

Kev M (NSW) posted:

I Know, tried to slip it in any way. But that must give the Nissan a bigger advantage over the Toyota.

Kev
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FollowupID: 465658   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 08:40

Bonz (Vic) posted:

AND AND AND it was a 4WD Nissan that cleaned them up QED
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FollowupID: 465671   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 10:36

Hairy posted:

Phil G
Richards and Skaife won in 1991 &1992
Cheers
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FollowupID: 466241   Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 22, 2006 at 10:20

Pezza (Bris) posted:

How a car manages to 'win' bathurst whilst it looks like a piece of scrap metal after drilling the barrier and still sitting on top of the mountain is beyond me !

Also we have to let ford win every so often, otherwise they crack the poops, take their ball, go home and don't wanna play anymore :-)

Avagoodn
Pezza
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AnswerID: 205650   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 20:16

samsgoneagain replied:

toyota= good body and chassis and driving position

patrol= soft body and not as good chassis but excellent engine trans and gearbag

(but factory turbo toyotas good a lot better than factory nissan turbo)
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AnswerID: 205653   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 20:36

GQ_TUFF replied:

Have you considered a good second hand subaru brumby? Honest little 4WD ute!!! ;)
Just kidding......great car but not what you really want

Cheers Stefan
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Reply 7 of 21
FollowupID: 465616   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 20:37

GQ_TUFF posted:

by the way I have a GU (the best)
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AnswerID: 205654   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 20:51

foxtel replied:

Well since you mention Niva how about a Niva ute
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AnswerID: 205657   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 21:14

Redback replied:

Oh for gods sake stop mucking around and buy a Holden Cruise :-)
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FollowupID: 465633   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 22:39

Aandy(WA) posted:

Now that is a very silly thing to say!
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FollowupID: 465720   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 18:13

Redback posted:

Yep i agree
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AnswerID: 205668   Submitted: Saturday, Nov 18, 2006 at 22:52

Truckster (Vic) replied:

Go and drive both.. see which you like.
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AnswerID: 205680   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 00:41

Member - Davoe (Nullagine) replied:

driven far to many Tojo utes that never see blacktop to consider anything else
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AnswerID: 205689   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 02:08

Member - Geoff W (VIC) replied:

Plasnart i was in a similar boat a few years ago (80 seies or GQ) it came down to preference as both were suited in different ways. The 80 won in the end.
Have you thought about a series 2 niva? There the ones with the rear demister to keep your hands warm when you pushing it!
cheers geoff
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AnswerID: 205703   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 08:27

Black Beard replied:

Have owned both through the years. Found the Tojo's "easier" to drive, the cog-box is a bit more user-friendly ( but it broke earlier too ) The coil cab Patrol rode better and felt better at speed, but was a tad gutless ( non-turbo ) and prone to getting warm. The Tojo was easier to work on. The Patrol electrics seemed better than the tojo. Tojo had better fuel economy. I'm a big bloke and the Patrol fitted me better than the Tojo ( but the tojo had more head room ) I used both the utes mainly in the bush/station work, tojo's body stood up to it better though the patrol's drive train and suspension took more. Own a patrol wagon now, but if I had to decide on a ute again, it'd be tough but i think the tojo might win. Purchase price is the only cocern.
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AnswerID: 205708   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 08:46

AMack replied:

I own a '94 Toyota Hilux and a '04 GU Patrol wagon. I love the patrol but the biuld of the toyota is far better than the nissan, if your choices are for the same $ toyota has a "quality" edge. When looking for a new wagon we looked at the patrol against toyota prado as they were in the same $ range the cruiser wagon (diesel/auto) were way too expensive, and in the wagons the patrol is the only one with a live front axle, which was a prmary consideration. The nissan ute has coil rears which is a bonus. I drove the 4.2 when looking for wagons and found it a bit lacking, but as we were after an auto it didn't make our short list. Look at everything thing you want in your vehicle, prioritise 'must haves' then consider 'would likes' then make your choice. If everything is equal including price go Toyota. I suspect the Nissan will be cheaper and this may make it more attractive, it certainly represented the best value for money in our case.
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AnswerID: 205709   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 08:46

Bonz (Vic) replied:

As Truckster says above, make sure u drive both and see how they feel.

The Toyota driving position is slightly off line, i.e. the seat and steering wheel are not directly in line and I found that a little offputting and something that I thought I would have to get used to over a big while. The Nissan is cruisy, can go all day, get out and feel refreshed.

The yota has the pick of the motors but the drivetrain (gearbox and diffs etc) are not Nissan tough, but depending on your planned use that may not be a worry.

Yota will prolly hold its resale better, but will hit u harder in the first instance, overall both will probably be very close to being equal over the lifespan of the vehicle.

If it was me I would message Al & Mrs Al and buy one of his converted 100 series utes, now thats a car!
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AnswerID: 205718   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 10:21

Member - Axle replied:

Solve your dilema & buy the new 130 landy thats on its way. Far superior vehicle.

Cheers Axle.
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FollowupID: 465786   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 23:54

Roddesh posted:

It's not Friday...
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FollowupID: 465790   Submitted: Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 00:08

GaryInOz (Vic) posted:

ROTFLMAO

Best comeback in years!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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AnswerID: 205720   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 10:46

666toy replied:

Haveing had lots of dealings with both as a mechanic i personally would go the patrol for bush work . Reason being if anything goes wrong with a td42 donk it is a fairly straight forward eng to work on in the scrub you cant beat a pushrod eng for simplicity & reliability. Toyota,s donk is much more complicated with more electrical gizmo's that can really leave you up the proverbial creek in extreme isolation . This is not to say the Toyota's a bucket but it is very complicated . It is reasonably reliable though. If you go a patrol may i suggest you have the radiator refitted with a AUSSIE DESERT COOLER tripple pass & you will have no cooling probs whatsoever.Nis pros...stronger trans & driveline simpler eng (i wont comment on undercarriage because you will probably go aftermarket anyway)Nis cons ...not as well finished as the Toyota (cab )Can get hot due to haveing to smaller radiator (easily fixed )
Toyota cons ...weaker driveline very complex eng , have been known to have multi electrical probs for no reason.Be careful of turbos on this unit. Toy pros..better turning circle, more power.................................I do not really believe either is better than the other it really come down to what you want to do with it & what you prefer to drive ..................666toy
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FollowupID: 465744   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 21:05

Trevor R (QLD) posted:

Have you had dealings with the Aussie Desert Cooler mob or do you have association to them in any way?

How can you say their radiator will solve all the cooling (overheating) problems associated with the 4.2Turbo Patrol?

I ask this as another mug looking for the answer to the million dollar question.

Thanks for any forthcoming info.
Trevor.
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FollowupID: 465779   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 22:45

Member - Phil G (SA) posted:

666toy,
Thanks for that, but just a couple of questions:
I hadn't heard of any problems with the turbos on the 1HD-FTE HDJ79 - what problems have you seen with this engine?
You mentioned weaker driveline - I'm aware of the issues with the smaller R151F gearbox on the 1Hz models. Have you heard of issues with the bigger H150F box that comes behind the 1HD-FTE?
Also Toyota turning circle is a lot more than the Nissan - since 1999 when the Toyota made the 79series chassis about 300mm longer.

Cheers
Phil
2012 VDJ200 Landcruiser
2003 TVan
2008 VW Tiguan TDi
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FollowupID: 465787   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 23:58

Member - Davoe (Nullagine) posted:

totally unlikely you would have engine or driveline probs with either or for that matter most 4bys out bush just look at any stats will show problems for any 4by ae tyres, battrys wheel bearings etc. even with the sopposedly totally unreliable nissan 3.0l I am still to hear of one letting go in the middle of no - where
re tojo turning circle well just adjust it!!!! it is only one screw per side - not hard
and the 79 has been coping underground since its inception which is pretty tight!!
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FollowupID: 465789   Submitted: Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 00:05

666toy posted:

Gday Trevor ,
No i don't have any affiliation with AUSSIE DESERT COOLERS but i have tried & fitted quite a few & they do work . They work by passing cooling air past the cores 3 times instead of once . I know it sounds strange but check there web site & it will give you the full rundown .I have used there radiators on various project vehicles & know they work (even managed to keep a fj45 with a very hot 351 clevo properly cool in 40c heat).On average i recorded a drop in temp from a vehicle running regularly @90c+ with genuine rad to 75c-82c with adc type radiator. Just a shame Nissan built such a good truck & stuffed it with bad design of the cooling system.Anyway hope this helps (just remember these are not a normal radiator)....................666toy
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FollowupID: 465791   Submitted: Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 00:29

666toy posted:

Gday phil,
seen 2 turbos fail on vehicles with less than 25,000k on the clock 1hd-fte to be fair Toyota repaired without any probs .
Unfortunately there new trans is a improvement but still has transfer case probs .(i admit usually develop when grossly over loaded e.g pulling large fuel tankers around to farm machinery etc)
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FollowupID: 465916   Submitted: Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 20:00

Member - Phil G (SA) posted:

666toy,
Thanks for the info.
2012 VDJ200 Landcruiser
2003 TVan
2008 VW Tiguan TDi
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AnswerID: 205721   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 10:55

Plasnart replied:

Well thanks so much to all those giving sound advice. There is certainly lots to think about, but your advice might just have helped me make up my mind (one week I'm keen on Toyota, the next Nissan). It has been a bit of a roller-coaster ride as far as my thoughts on each of these vehicles goes, but i think i'll settle on a Patrol (4.2L of course!).

Thanks for your time and advice.
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FollowupID: 465747   Submitted: Sunday, Nov 19, 2006 at 21:07

Trevor R (QLD) posted:

Plasnart,

I'm interested to know if you are buying new or second hand? and why the Patrol is taking your fancy over the Cruiser?

Cheers, Trevor.
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AnswerID: 205863   Submitted: Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 09:00

Plasnart replied:

G'day Trevor,

As you may already know, I have been leaning towards both the Toyota and the Nissan at different times.

Right now I'm leaning to the Nissan (4.2L) because I think the following is true:
- Stronger drivetrain.
- Larger front diff.
- Larger rear diff (on leaf sprung model).
- Larger / stronger gearbox.
- Larger section chassis.
- Better internal ergonomics.
- Simpler engine, less electronics.

This is my belief, but I am certainly not an expert and if you think I'm on the wrong tram with the above issues please send me your thoughts. Thanks mate.
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Reply 19 of 21
FollowupID: 465938   Submitted: Monday, Nov 20, 2006 at 21:51

Trevor R (QLD) posted:

Nope not disagreeing, infact I agree on all points you make above.

Only one thing that would sway me back to a Cruiser again (I owned a 99 100 series 1HZ) would be if I was buying new. The Toyota warranty is worth the extra spend on the car initially, IMO, but I did need this warranty on 4 seperate occassions in 18 months. The Nissan warranty is however not worth the paper it is written on, fortunately apart from the overheating of my GU I have not needed this warranty. Hence my reasoning for asking if you were buying new.

Good luck with your decision.
Regards, Trevor.
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AnswerID: 206053   Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 at 08:41

Plasnart replied:

Thanks Trevor,

I should have mentioned, I am looking at buying used. Your post has given me added confidence in my choice. It can be very confusing for amateurs entering the scene.

As I am only looking at the 4.2L models, I am finding the hunt for the right one a long slow process as there are not that many on the market. That's probably a good sign though! There are so many 2.8L Patrols out there it's not funny.

HEY....what if I bought a 2.8L Patrol (cheap even with heaps of options on it) and dropped a 4.2 into it?? Surely this has been done before? Is the drivetrain, gearbox, diff all the same as the 4.2 or are they less robust? Someone out there should know about this. Tell me if this idea has credibility or have I finally lost the plot?? (I'm a teapot, I'm a teapot!!)

Thanks.
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FollowupID: 466129   Submitted: Tuesday, Nov 21, 2006 at 20:27

Trevor R (QLD) posted:

It has been done before by a member on here but I don't know how much $$$ it cost him. The diff ratios are different between the two models so this would also have to come into consideration. The 4.2 Turbo can be found for around the 5K mark if I remember right but then you need 2 diffs also. So many other differences, I personally don't think it is a viable option. Bilbo (another member on here) dropped a 6.5Chev into a dead 2.8 GU and if you look through the archives with his name and 6.5 Chev as the criteria you will come up with some interesting reading.
Me thinks it would be better to bide your time and the right truck will come up. I have a mate who may be selling a road only going 4.2Turbo GU about 2003 model, up here in Brissy in the near future so if you leave me your email addy in a response here, when the time comes for him to offload it I can give you an email. This all may take too much time for you, I don't know. I know it has never been offroad though and it occassionally tows a big boat to the boat ramp and that's about it so low k's also. Just remeber not all 4.2's are in this sort of shape though as they are a tough capable car that tends to get used (and abused) so look carefully.

Cheers Trevor.
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FollowupID: 466265   Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 22, 2006 at 12:30

Member - Davoe (Nullagine) posted:

yep with the 2.8 theentire driveline is different to th 4.2/3.0l gearbox and diffs
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AnswerID: 206324   Submitted: Wednesday, Nov 22, 2006 at 08:50

Plasnart replied:

Thanks for that Trev. I think you're right in saying it's probably too much mucking around to drop a 4.2 into a 2.8 vehicle. I will just wait and keep looking. Your mates vehicle sounds interesting but I'm really looking at vehicles sub 30k. Maybe his will be more than that? Anyway my email is rohans@gardner.com.au. Thanks mate.
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