tomjones83 posted:

I dont think I agree with 4x4 needing a different licence class. but then again, I am sure it would limit the number if people that shouldnt be driving 4x4's. difficult call, people say that mum's in 4x4's are disasterous, we dont have kids yet, but my mrs in the patrol will challenge anyone on or off road.

It is that bad now, I set the cruise to 75kph when going up Fraser beach at low tide so i dont get pinched speeding... crazy.

Member - Oldplodder (QLD) posted:

Seperate driving license for 4wds is a good concept, but how do you define a 4wd?
A standard license also allows you in Qld to drive a vehicle up to 4 tonnes I beieve.

So do we define a 4wd by the number of wheels driven - i.e. 4? or by weight, over 2 tonnes? Because there are a lot of exceptions to both. Or by describing the make and model of vehicle. e.g. Nisan patrol, and some one in the govt can go through and declare some vehicles '4wds'. And keep the list up to date, and inform everyone who sells them, or wants to buy one, to ensure they are duly qualified.
Could be a bit tricky to legislate, even harder to enforce.

Hun posted:

Leave it alone Chucky....You'll go blind

troopyman posted:

Quote "(and I can believe that when I look at the amount of new hoses going up!)" Hoses are banned , its a drought .

Member - Rotord posted:

A Freudian slip , you are lucky he didn't write popup for population .

Member - MrBitchi (QLD) posted:

Sheesh..... spell checker doesn't check grammar... :-P

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Yeah it's the same story in WA, they are going on about how many extra deaths yarda yarda yarda. WA is the fastest growing state, what did they expect??

All they are doing is buttering everyone up so when they book you for doing 5k's over the speed limit while overtaking some DH who shouldn't be on the road, raise you insurance preimums, fine you and take some demerits off your license they probably hope you won't jump up and down so much...

Member - Oldplodder (QLD) posted:

So is the road toll in NSW dropping, with people leaving?

Shaker posted:

So if the " actual road toll per head of population is going DOWN.... "

Then their tactics are working!

BTW, there are no penalties for people that don't break the law.

Member - Jiarna (NT) posted:

I sympathise with those who feel that it's all about money, but I have to agree with Shaker. You don't HAVE to pay - don't break the law. It is actually legal to drive at the speed limit, or even (shock, horror) a few km/h below it. Is it really worth dying for, to try to get somewhere a few minutes sooner?

Just my opinion
John

Shaker posted:

I really find it hard to comprehend why so many people are in such a hurry ........ to die!

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Haha, you two make me laugh. Did I say that I was in a hurry? I don't pass people in most cases because I'm "in a hurry". I just can't stand sitting behind people that do 70kph around the corners and then 110kph on the straights! I have a bad back and rely on my cruise control to allow me to take the pressure of my back muscles while driving (by not holding my foot on the accelerator for hours on end). It doesn't work so well when you have these people on the roads who literally cannot operate a motor vehicle correctly.

Booking people for speeding while overtaking is a sure way to KILL PEOPLE.

I don't know about you but when I'm passing a semi trailer I don't do 110kph, I go faster, because I am doing what I was always taught to do in the country and that is get out, get passed and get back on YOUR side of the road as quick as possible. These people who dwardle past trucks and 110kph when the truck is doing 85kph are going to kill people, cops who encourage this behaviour by setting speed cameras up in overtaking lanes and speed traps in these areas are going to kill people. Plain and simple. Mate I don't think it'll make much difference if he's doing 110 or 120 when he hits you and your family head on because he's been out on the other side of the road for 2 minutes trying to pass a semi at the speed limit!

Shaker posted:

If your disability prevents you from driving safely, ie. slowing down for corners, then maybe you shouldn't be driving.
As far as not being able to "operate a motor vehicle correctly", I believe most able bodied drivers actually slow down for corners.

BTW, I have a CAMS licence, do you?

Member - Jiarna (NT) posted:

Jeff M

So why not travel at 95 or 100 km/h and let the joker disappear into the distance on the straights and you won't catch up on the corners? Or are you in too much of a hurry :-)

I also use a cruise control for the same reasons you mention, and I mostly set it at 100 km/h. If I keep getting held up by slower vehicles on the curves, I drop back a few km/h on the straights to leave some room. Of course I probably annoy those who want to do 111 km/h but hey you can't please everyone.

Personally I avoid overtaking road trains and the like unless I can see ahead for a few km, but that's mostly because I drive an asthmatic elderly 1HZ with a trailer on the back LOL.

Cheers
John

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

ROTFL! I didn't realise we were having a dick sizing competition.

You really are a knob aren't you... With your cams licence, I'm sure you are aware that on most well maintained highways it is normaly to drive well cambered corners at the speed limit, otherwise there would be warning signs with suggested lower speed limits or a general speed limit that suits the road condition. Perhaps this is a little complex for you understanding...

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Oh Jiarna, (sory your post came up after I replied to the other rediculous one). Yes I do cruise at a lower speed on occasion for that very reason, however it is not always possible to do that as a lot of these drivers in question very their speeds quite dramatically making your cruising speed very low. My vehicle is an automatic and torque lock does not come on until 80kph, if I drive slower than 80kph two things happen. 1. I use more fuel because the gear box is not in lock and 2. I my gearbox runs hotter as it is slipping constanty.

Waiting for a long stretch of road is ideal when passing trucks, but in places like the south west of WA long stretchs of roads can be as rare as rocking horse poop, that is WHY they install passing lanes. Of course the passing lanes are not very long themselves and if you have a train of 10 cars all trying to get past one road train on the passing lane and you doodle along slowly it's not really fair on the other is it.

Shaker posted:

Jeff M ...... It was far from a case of "dick sizing".

It was merely to make a point that contrary to your belief, that you are the only capable driver on the road, there are in fact, others with at least equal, or more driving skill, ability & judgement than you possess.

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Shaker, perhaps you need to brush up on your reading skills, or perhaps maybe remove your head from you ass momentarily so that you can actually see that my post was not all about me as I am not one of these selfish people who don't care what other drivers on the road are doing/feeling/wanting. If there were less selfish people driving around thinking "Who gives a bleep , I'm right jack" then our roads would be a lot safer. I don't recall at anytime talking about my driving skills, only the skills of people who obviously lack the neccessary skills to drive safley on country roads. You might find that you see slightly more intelligent when you stop making up crap and trying to put words in poeples mouths to prove you pathetic points.

While you tootle along doing whatever speed suits you "because your not in a hurry" think about the people who aren't on holidays, think about the farmer who lives 50k's out of town and just wants to go and get some bread and milk, think about all the thousands of people who drive on our country roads for a living (like my wife for instance) think about people who communute form one town to another for employment.

Mate, you are not the only one that is important out there, other people have things to do to. Get over yourself.

Shaker posted:

I would rather think about the 7 people that died on Victorian roads today!

Maybe your reference to other drivers as bleep s, albeit by acronym, made me think you that you thought you were better than them.

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Oh it's that simple is it?! Wow, so if not one was speeding in victoria today, no one would have died on the roads... Man, why didn't we think of that before... Maybe we should just speed limit all vehicles to 70kph, that's slow everyone down, no one will die on our roads then!
FFS - seriously some people...

Hey while you were thinking about those 7 people who died on the roads today from whatever reason, be it maybe a mechanical problem, tiredness, bad road design, someone eating their big mac while talking on their phone or whatever the reasons for them were crashing, did you think about those 7 people who died from commiting suicide yesterday (that's the daily average - http://www.spinneypress.com.au/166_book_desc.html). Talk about preventative, I guess there's no money in that, not like a good speed camera hidden in a bush in an overtaking lane....

Shaker posted:

Speeding, impatience & intolerance would be 3 major factors, remind you of anyone?

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

No, not particulary. I normally cruise between 90-100kph on windy hilly roads at 110kph on flat straights (the legal limit), if their are cars bulilding up behind me, I either let them past or pull over to let them get through. Personally I cannot see how intolerance is directly related to road deaths, but hey, each to their own huh... Impatience would be a major factor, unfortunatally people who have no regard for anyone but themselves are only making that problem worse.

Shaker posted:

How about that? After all that we agree with each other.
I also tend to drive at similar speeds, mainly because I have found it to be fuel efficient & with our roads deteriorating, I think safer.

Trevor R (QLD) posted:

Chris,

I have a similar view regarding increase fines equal less offences but I think to make things fair, the fine should be a percentage of your weekly income. Therefore if you earn more than the next bloke, the same offence will hurt you equally as much. Increase fine amounts won't do squat when you are talking about the guys up the big end of town. $5000 to someone earning that every week doesn't mean the same as to someone earning $500 a week.

Trevor.

Bware (Tweed Valley) posted:

Very good point Trevor; this is the source of 'one law for the rich, one for the poor'. A ticket means nothing to them and for more serious crimes they can afford the best lawyers or have friends that can pull strings

Member - Andrew (QLD) posted:

"question" means 'queensland" :-)

Andrew

Member - MrBitchi (QLD) posted:

Don't get me wrong, Andrew. No way am I complaining about the laws, just the method of enforcing them, and the incorrect statement that the road toll is getting worse... Well it is higher in number than last year but as a percentage of population it's actually going down.
Yes we do need to do more but bloody speed cameras are not the answer. Cops in Cop Cars are the way to go.

Member - Andrew (QLD) posted:

You might be right with the numbers John than i would like to see though they are still 300+ high:-(

I agree that passive speed cameras aren't the answer....proactive measures must be used. The other issues is that items such as speed cameras etc are location specific, which doesn't address the problems throughout the state, just in theoretically known black spots. Harsher penalties for obvious illegal activity eg drink-driving, enforced by more police on the streets is one step in the right direction.

Whilst people may not think drugs are important, then take a step outside their own area and you will find that there seems to be an increasing trend of road related deaths involving drugs. Remember that whilst these tougher laws are for Qld per se, it may not be used everywhere eg. it may not be the case to conduct random drug tests in the heart of brisbane yet it may warrant the increased enforcement of aggressive/reckless driving.

Andrew

Brian B (QLD) posted:

Hey guys,

This debate reminds me that it doesn't seem that many years ago they had campaign 550 running in that they were trying to get under that amount of road deaths in the year.

While any road death is one to many I would think that the trend is improving given that there is huge population growth happening.

I worked in the Ambulance for 25 years prior to taking an early retirement recently and I know the cops are way understaffed in Queensland at least. I am not a huge fan of cameras etc but I do think that an increase in the number of patrol cars and bikes on the road is a good deterrent and the use of unmarked vehicles also has a part to play in this type of work.

The other thing IMO is that there needs to be a visible way for the public to see the money that is being raised in fines and what the government are doing with it because I know for sure that it doesn't go back to the cops etc.

Just my opinion.

Bware (Tweed Valley) posted:

This isn't aimed at you, Andrew, but I think the main point is that all this revenue raising doesn't affect the actual number of road deaths! I'm with MrBitchi on the issue of police presence on the road so that people will think about what they are doing. If there were enough police on the road (and not only between 9am and 5pm) people would be much more inclined to do the right thing for fear of being caught. How often do you see something stupid and dangerous on the road and say to yourself, 'Where are the cops when you need them?". Well, they're on the side of the road pulling hundreds of people over in the hope of issuing a couple of defect stickers; efficient use of available funds which comes from our taxes?
What is the point of speed cameras when there is a sign before you get to them? If people speed they know there will be a sign telling them to slow down for the camera so they can speed again after the camera. Although it does reflect the mental capabilties of some people that get a ticket at an 'advertised' speed camera.

Bware (Tweed Valley) posted:

Brian B, I understand that the revenue doesn't go to the cops. Red tape and beaurocrats; the financial black hole of society.

tomjones83 posted:

Hey Bros,

Unfortunately not that I received.

I dont believe that all young drivers are the ones that should be persecuted. Have a think about this scenario:

Down the coast... the young drivers are all trying to hoon around, race, do burnouts and whatever else constitutes social miss-behaviour. I have never ever seen the magnitude of police in my life than i have seen down there. it is absolutely crazy. a lot of these kids are driving what... hotted up 4cyl maybe 6cyl which are probably designed to be driven on a race track. I have heard of some of these kids spending into the 10's of thousands on these cars to make them perform and handle. now think back 30 years... GT falcons, chargers, valliants, monaros, etc, etc... all muscle cars which were doing the 'exact' same thing as what is happening today! hooning isnt a direct result of major issues on our roads - there is the odd unfortunate accident but i dont believe it is something that needs to be addressed with the force that it is.

Second scenario:

family dad, works a 9hr day in the office on a friday, gets home from work, packs the car and the family and takes off to drive overnight to their holiday destination. 5-6 hours into the journey, comes around a blind corner and falls asleep at the wheel. before you know it, he is on the wrong side of the road and has a head on collision with a truck killing the whole family. gone... no more Jones family. now, to think back 5-6 hours. the truckie has had a 10-12 hour break as per law and is fit to drive the road he travels every night, not once a year.
people on here have stated poor family etc etc, i do agree but think, how would that truck driver feel for doing his job (trying to feed his family)?

Yes, there are still a few truckies out there that dont play by the rules, work big hours, take drugs to work, etc etc, to be completely honest, i am glad they are on drugs, it will mean that it they are awake and not on my side of the road pulling 40tonne when they shouldnt be!!! yes, they are doing the wrong thing but in a way, doing the right thing. they are only working the big hours to try and support their family.

Fatigue is the biggest killer on our roads, this is the problem that needs to be addressed the most. not speeding, not drink driving, not unlicenced or hooning drivers or anything like that! fatigue and the contribors to fatigue need to be combated! this means, imposing long distance log book regulations, improvement of roads & conditions.

Penalties are not the answer to everything... all they do is make the public resent the system. Penalties can also be abused... take the joke in the friday funnies section today, the copper just kept writing tickets to the retireee... the police have the ability to make decisions just as a normal person. they have the choice to fine you, let you go or make you stop, inspect your vehicle and defect you for something just on the spot. Police are human. they breathe the same air and drink the same water we do, they are also affected emotionally the same way we are. if we are in a bad mood and disrespect a cop when pulled over, he will throw the book!

Christmas time makes me laugh, you see it in ever weekend paper. fictional example: Qld Police conducted 20,000 random breath tests in conjunction with operation 'boozhag' over the weekend. 136 people were charged with having an alcohol content in their system. (thats 0.0068% of the 20,000 tests). hillarious... make sure you look out for it this chrissy...

drink driving & driving alone kill more people than the 2 combined.

Sorry for the rant and hopefully you, your families and everyone on exploroz have a fantastic and safe xmas.

regards,
Tom