Member - Dave .. B (SA) replied:

Totally agree with you on this Axle you have prob read the post on my gearbox below....im totally peed off 2 grand for first rebuild and now another 2 or more grand... after paying 30 odd grand for a 4by you'd expect a bit better...and as you say above its not just Nissan its Toyota, LandRover etc etc ..hope this is the bloody last of it ........cheers ....dave

Dave198 replied:

Axle, I think in the last ten years there has been more emphasis on getting the fourbys to ride and drive like a car, including the noise level inside.
So the design of the gearboxes has changed.
My 60 series isn't much like a 80 or 100 series or GU to drive, but look at the sales figures of the fourbys over the last ten years.
I am not too sure the manufacturers would have many sleepless nights over the cost and frequency of repair bills that you get.
All they are interested in is keeping the production line going.
How many soft roaders were on the market ten years ago?
I think the manufacturers just want to either expand or create a market for their vehicles, and if that means making them more like a limo, then so be it.
Dave

Kiwi Kia replied:

Where do you think the generic name 'SUV' came from ? That's what they are building !

We use then off road and for hard yakka trips but that is not what they are designed for these days. The designer wants the 4wd on his drawing board to be used by families in the northern hemisphere, summer or winter, a little dust maybe followed by a little snow & ice.

Take a big car with no chassis, square the corners, big donk with transfer case and front drive shaft. Through in traction control etc etc. Put the dog and the fishing poles behind the back seat, add a couple of ankle biters, put swmbo in the front pass seat and got a modern 4wd.

Outnabout David (SA) replied:

Maybe it is the driver in some cases.
There are plenty of vehicles used as four wheel drives with no problems but of course not many people post to forums saying I have driven 500,000k and not had problems.

Percentage wise I thinlk components stand up pretty well and the vehicles overall are better built and more reliable with little maintenance required compared to years gone by.

How many of you remember having to change points and plugs every 20K as well as fuel filters?

A lot of time people think they will save a buck by doing their own service and thats fine if they know what they are doing. I would like a dollar for every landcruiser out there running the wrong oil in the gearbox which itself can cause problems. Maybe Mr home mechanic doesent always notice tell tale signs of oil seals leaking which may just be a drip.But over time could mean oil levels are low.

No I think a lot of the problems are self inflicted, either lack of driver training or lack of maintenance and a lot of times this could be by the previous owner. People often go like a bull at a gate to go over obstacles putting undue stress on components.

Any way just food for thought and from 30 years in the 4wd business

F4Phantom replied:

I think part of the reason is efficiency. Older sludge boxes may have been stronger but they also had 3 speeds and used nearly 30% of the engine power. We hear a lot about the ZF tranny in the new falcon BUT what we dont hear about is that ford are also friggin lazy and instread of trying harder to get efficiency from better engineering, they got ZF to modify the transmission for better efficiency. So now that ZF will last around 150,000 because it has smaller weaker components and is not the original ZF 6 that ZF had off the shelf. My bmw had a 4 speed ZF and it is the same box in the classic range rover, its tough as nails but makes the car use quite a bit more juice. So to get their cars to use less fuel they use more disposable boxes which cost more to rebuild. In fact if a 4 speed rebuild is 2.5K what is a 6 speed - 5k?

Andrew5691 replied:

I think we all need to recognise that today's 4WDs (all cars for that matter) are a lot less like those of made as recently as 20 years ago. I was horrified when I finally found where they had hidden the spark plugs on my Challenger and did the mental calculation on how much it was going to cost me to replace them. I waxed ruefully to anyone that would listen about the good ol' days when changing spark plugs was an hour job tops. However I was comparing apples with oranges because in those days they were consumables whereas now they are not. The car has done 240k and the plugs may have been changed once so with that sort of life (similar to many timing belts) why would a manufacturer worry any more about making them accessible when to do so might be at the expense of other forms of efficiency. The same logic applies to Gearboxes. If making a car with a strong enough gearbox to last without concern means putting in a bigger thirstier motor to deliver the same performance then perhaps the economics favours the lighter more efficient gearbox even if that means more vigilant servicing to ensure they are being cared for. Just like we need change our view of spark plugs as a consumable we need to change our view that a gearbox/transmission is a large box of wheels that needs little if any attention during the life of the vehicle.

Member - Phil G (SA) replied:

A couple of thoughts:

#1 The older 4wds were lucky to have 70Kw for a diesel or 100Kw for a petrol. Now they are double that, and in many cases the transmissions haven't been beefed up.

#2 People bolt on a turbo and wonder why the gearbox can't handle it. Toyota put a heavier gerabox behind the factory TDs.

#3 The autos seem to be more reliable than the manuals - its another good argument for going for an auto these days.

#4 Clutches are still not as good as the asbestos ones of the past.

Member - Doug T (W.A) replied:

My old T-Line International with 9 speed had 1,200,000Ks on it when I sold it back in 89and it had not been looked at and I think the Wynnes helped some too, admitedly it was a truck transmission but I don't see why they can't make 4x4 boxes to last a million Ks , today it's all a matter of trying to keep the weight down , everything is lighter ,