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Solar Regulator to charge batts in CT on the move

Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:00

Muddy doe (SA)

Have done the archive search but no joy.

Can I use a Solar Regulator to accept 12 volt input from vehicle altenator (via approrioate sized cable/anderson plug) to regulate charge to a bank of 2x100AH AGM batteries installed in camper trailer while on the move?

I have generator and 15 amp smart charger to do the job while camped for long periods but want to know best way to get maximum efficiency charge to batteries whilst travelling (driving).

Am thinking regulator will overcome any voltage drop issues and also protect batts from overcharge (Arrid twin charge solves the voltage drop but not the overcharge problem).

Will the altenator supply too many amps for most solar regulators? Notice Derek Bester has 15 and 30 amp models listed. Could I just run charge wire from the 2nd batt under bonnet (115AH Trjan wet cell)? Then the regulator can just take what it needs whilst driving to keep CT batteries topped up.

Anyone care to comment?

Cheers
Muddy

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ThreadID: 45022 Replies: 11
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AnswerID: 237501   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:26

Alloy c/t replied:

Do not attempt to use a Steca solar regulator for what u propose , an error code will flash which tells what u have attempted to do , 1x no longer working regulator NOT covered by warranty due to missuse.
Reply 1 of 11
FollowupID: 498531   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:31

Muddy doe (SA) posted:

You sound like you speak from experience!

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FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 498545   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:43

Alloy c/t posted:

Not often wrong , this time guilty as charged !!
FollowUp 2 of 2
AnswerID: 237507   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:31

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators replied:

Solar regulators control the charge by shorting out the panel.

You can just imagine what will happen to the regulator when it tries to short out a alternator.

Yes - No warranty.
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Reply 2 of 11
FollowupID: 498542   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:40

Muddy doe (SA) posted:

Thanks Derek,

Just what I needed to know.

Do you do Arrid products? The Arrid twin charge is what I think I want but I have read several posts in here that it can overcharge. Also saw Arrid model BRC1202 that seems good.

Cheers
Muddy

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FollowUp 1 of 12
FollowupID: 498561   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 21:02

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Hi Muddy

I don't sell Arrid products anymore.

There are better products available.

The twin charge is a 20A power supply. I have been reading and testing the theory of high voltage charging. A better option would be to use an inverter in the tow car and power a 3 stage 25A smart charger in the caravan. Most caravans should already have a charger fitted so basically the inverter in the car is the only upgrade. I will be investigating this further and have already done tests with our new marine inverter and new ic-1215 charger.

Regards

Derek.

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FollowUp 2 of 12
FollowupID: 498565   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 21:09

Muddy doe (SA) posted:

Hmmmm,

Thought about that too. I do have a 300W Pure Sine Inverter but don't like the idea of 240v happening anywhere in a moving vehicle, particularly across the tow point (which is what you seem to be advocating and I am pretty sure I have seen elsewhere that this would not be legal!).

Wanting to stick with a 12 volt solution fully automatic solution. I can't be the only person doing this!!

Anyway - cheers for the advice and I would willingly look at any products from you that will meet my requirements.

Muddy

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FollowUp 3 of 12
FollowupID: 498617   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 00:17

Blaze posted:

I may be totally wrong here and hope I'm corrected if I am.
When you connect the CT to the vehicle don't the batteries from the CT and the vehicle affectively level out to the same amount just the same as dual battery setup in a vehicle. Then whilst driving the regulator will keep charging until all batteries are topped up, I believe.

I hope this is right because it's how I run mine ...........??
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FollowUp 4 of 12
FollowupID: 498624   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 06:37

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Hi Blaze

Do you have a dual battery system and isolator fitted to the car ?

I can't answer the question with the info supplied and your 'Rig & Profile' don't list a dual battery. What size cable do you run from fron to rear ?

Regards

Derek.
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FollowupID: 498625   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 06:42

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Hi Muddy

I will look into the legal side of it. It is not connected to the grid so it would fall into similar laws as marine power.

I am just testing at this stage. I know your fears though as the weak link would be the hitch point. I'm sure it would be safer than many open air markets I have seen.

Regards

Derek.
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FollowUp 6 of 12
FollowupID: 498632   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 07:36

Grungle posted:

Install the inverter and 240V charger near each other in the camper trailer and connect the Inverter's DC input from the vehicle alternator to the camper via an anderson plug. Therefore no need to have 240V between the vehicle and camper.

Regards
David

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FollowUp 7 of 12
FollowupID: 498643   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 08:08

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Hi Grundle

Yes but we would need 30amps at the inverter and then we are back to the heavy duty 12V cable.

Good idea though but the inverter mounted in the car has other uses as well.

Regards

Derek.
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FollowUp 8 of 12
FollowupID: 498801   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:15

Grungle posted:

Hi Derek,

He could buy another inverter from you and have one in the car and one in the camper. A 1000W modified sinewave inverter with 25mm² cabling and 175 amp anderson plugs would still be cheaper than a PL20 regulator.

Regards
David

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FollowUp 9 of 12
FollowupID: 498806   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:37

Blaze posted:

Hi Derek, I have the standard battery under the bonnett and then directly wired to this is a Battery in the rear next to the fridge. As my frdge is an Autofridge and it cuts out at 10.4volts I haven't found any need to fit a isolator.

As mentioned before I have also connected the CT Battery directly to the vehicles front battery without an isolator.

I was told by a mechanic (true or false) that having it setup like this was fine as all the batteries would level out with both discharge and would charge up again when the vehicle was running.

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FollowUp 10 of 12
FollowupID: 498817   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 20:56

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Hi Blaze

Wiring the camper to the 2nd battery in the back of the vehicle is fine.

Wiring any other battery to the main battery without an isolator especially with a fridge that cuts out at 10.4V is not clever.

You can have 2 things happen.

1) You have no power to start the vehicle and then you are stuck.

2) You crank the engine and it melts all the wiring between your batteries or blows all the fuses if fitted.

I would fit an isolator to the main battery. This will also stop the fridge cutting out during cranking.

I like to know that I have at least one fully charged battery at all times.

Regards

Derek.

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FollowUp 11 of 12
FollowupID: 498928   Submitted: Friday, May 04, 2007 at 09:06

Blaze posted:

Thanks for the feed back Derek; I have taken onboard your points and can see the merit. I'm not to worried about the battery being down at 10.4 volts for it to start the vehicle, as being Petrol/LPG that’s plenty to spin her over, and the fridge being an eutectic (is only turned on 2 times a day) is never on until we have started the vehicle and I do have fuses plus a circuit breaker under the bonnet leading to the rear of the vehicle.

"2) You crank the engine and it melts all the wiring between your batteries or blows all the fuses if fitted."

I have to admit with this point you have me worried, so I may at a minimum, flick the circuit breaker so only the front battery is connected when I start the vehicle from now on, if we have been camped for more than 2 nights or so.

Again thanks for the info.
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FollowUp 12 of 12
AnswerID: 237511   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:33

Member - Olcoolone (SA) replied:

Can't be done that way, you will cook the solor regulator with to much current and maybe damage the solar cells.

Pirahna do a duel battery system that has an input from a solar reg.

With a 80 watt solor panel correctly aimed at the sun on a really good day you may be lucky to get 20 amps of charge back into you batterys over a 24 hour period, the same as if you ran your engine for half an hour (based on 5 hours on maxium usable sunlight and 4a/h charge rate).

You need to position solar cell at a 32% angle (or there abouts) directly pointing at the sun.

We did this execise with a customer last week.

I would just stay with the gen set / charger and the vehicles alternator.

There is a big misunderstanding about who good solar cells are, they are a very expensive slow way of charging batterys.

regards Richard
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Reply 3 of 11
FollowupID: 498540   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:38

Muddy doe (SA) posted:

Yes, am actually not interested in running solar panels at all.

Am only interested in finding a device that regulates altenator power to most efficiently charge battery bank in camper whilst actually driving.

Generator great for keeping topped up whilst camped but want to ensure that while travelling long distances to camping spots that I am using freely available altenator power as efficiently as possible to keep 200AH battery bank topped up while ensuring no overcharging.

Was wondering if Solar Regulator would do the job but it seems not.

Cheers
Muddy

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FollowUp 1 of 3
FollowupID: 498548   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:47

Member - Olcoolone (SA) posted:

An Arrid would do the job and so would most other dual battery regs,

With voltage drop if you run the right size cable you will not have an issue, we use 3B&S cable.

Regards Richard
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FollowUp 2 of 3
FollowupID: 498552   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:52

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

First of all any isolator has solar input. It is just a gimmick. Use a blocking diode on any isolator and you have solar input.

The new BiSolator can charge 3 batteries independently and does not allow one battery to drain or 'equalise' the other. It can also be switched off once the batteries are full.

As all batteries are electronically monitored they get the most current without the others causing the 'Buffer' effect. :-) (not my words)



Regards

Derek.
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FollowUp 3 of 3
AnswerID: 237523   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:48

Sand Man (SA) replied:

Muddy,

To my knowledge the Arrid Twincharge cannot overcharge batteries as it has an inbuilt charge controller.

The Twincharge is a very common method of charging and maintaining batteries in a camper or caravan, via the vehicle alternator and I haven't read or heard of any problems with the units.

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Reply 4 of 11
FollowupID: 498554   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:54

Muddy doe (SA) posted:

Thanks Sandman,

The lack of charge control and possible overcharging was the only thing turning me off but it seems the latest ones have it so it looks like the Arrid Twin Charge III will be the product I want.

Cheers
Muddy

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FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 498571   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 21:19

Member - Roachie (SA) posted:

G'day Muddy,

My Arrid Twin Charge works fine on the 120a/h AGM in the Patrol, and no sign of overcharging. I also have the camper wired so that it's 2 batteries are hooked up to the AGM when all coupled up. Hence the Arrid is effectively charging 3 batteries.

I seriously doubt it would be capable of overcharging the 2 x 100a/h batteries you will have in your camper trailer.

Cheers

Roachie

PS: did you get your April and May newsletters?

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AnswerID: 237529   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 20:52

Boxhead replied:

Muddy
HAve a look @ this system , works well for me with similar set-up

www.rotronics.com.au/RBT12.4wdP1Unit.htm

regards Mark

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Reply 5 of 11
FollowupID: 498560   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 21:02

Boxhead posted:

camper battery bank [240A/h] linked in parallel with vehicle auxiliary via cable + Anderson

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FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 237534   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 21:05

Robin replied:

Hi Muddy

The solar controller issued has been answered - but why so complex? - just run wires from battery to trailer as you suggest - it is nearly impossible to overcharge the trailer batteries anyway.

Robin Miller
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Reply 6 of 11
FollowupID: 498569   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 21:17

Muddy doe (SA) posted:

Hi Robin,

Thanks for that.

Point to consider there would be mixing battery types (wet cell Trojan Deep Cycle and AGM batts). Seen that this is not a good thing.

This may well end up being the simplest cheapest solution but was wanting to see about getting the best charge level for the batteries without under or over doing it. Sometimes drive 7 to 10 hours with minimal breaks so don't want to be putting too much in hence the question about regulation. I could disconnect manually but if there is a good controller that can do the job without me thinking about it too much then I would be interested.

I already have a TJM DBS for the under bonnet battery that has been fantastic as a set and forget item. Just looking to have the trailer battery bank "look after itself" as well.

Cheers
Muddy

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FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 498579   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 21:39

Robin posted:

Hi Muddy

Mixing battery types isn't optimum , but as you describe it , it isn't much of a problem either , because the AGMs in the trailer prefer a slightly higher voltage
there is no likely hood of an overcharge.

Robin Miller
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AnswerID: 237544   Submitted: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 at 21:52

_gmd_pps replied:

you want this

www.sterling-power.com/htm/btb.htm

company is a pain to deal with ... I was looking at one of these
but their policy (shipping etc is not acceptable to me ) .. so
I went for a Balmar alternator with an external regulator charger
(Maxcharge) .. Alternator does 160 AMP and I run that as my second
alternator .. the main one is a 120Amp powering the vehicle guts
and charge the two cranking batteries ...

good luck
gmd
Reply 7 of 11
AnswerID: 237590   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 07:17

Grungle replied:

It can be done but only certain types of regulators can do it (the only one I know of is the Plasmatronic series). You need to setup current limiting in the regulator so it does not draw anymore than below its maximum rated amperage from the source (say 50% to be safe). I wanted to try from the alternator but could not justify the price of the PL20 at the time. The other problem is voltage drop as a Solar regulator ideally needs 15V or more to effectively charge your batteries.

I used to charge my batteries by connecting my power supply (which has adjustable voltage and current) to my solar regulator and setting for 18V and 10A (which it could supply continuously). The regulator then controls this and chargers the batteries accordingly. This was my alternative to a 240V 3 stage charger (which I now have so abondoned the idea). I do not have a Plasmatronic regulator thus the need to use a power supply with current limiting.

You can read my endeavours here or another persons here.

PLEASE NOTE - this worked for me so is my experience only. Don't try these things unless you are completely confident that you will not blow anything up or harm yourself in the process.

Regards
David

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Reply 8 of 11
AnswerID: 237591   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 07:24

Grungle replied:

Hi Muddy,

The other option you have is to buy an appropriately sized inverter and run this from the power supplied by the vehicle. Connect your 240V 3 stage smart charger to this and then you have what you are asking in the top post. I know Aussie Swag Campers used to have this method of charging but not sure about now.

Regards
David

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Reply 9 of 11
FollowupID: 498630   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 07:32

Grungle posted:

Sorry, Derek has already mentioned this (too many posts to read sometimes).

Regards
David

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FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 237610   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 09:15

Gronk replied:

I just run a feed straight from the main batt ( thru a 40A relay, and fuse of course,) to the CT and charge 4x 35ah batts ( AGM's )

If I'm gonna be driving for say 6hrs I might only give them 2hrs of charge if they were already fairly full ( keep an eye on the voltage before you leave )

If they were fairly flat, then I'd give them 6hrs ( or thereabouts )

When I'm home or near power I'll give them a good charge with the 3 stage, but when travelling ( usually 4 to 6 days ) keeping them at a reasonable state of charge ( say 12.5V ) is all I need to keep the fridge going.
Reply 10 of 11
AnswerID: 237633   Submitted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 11:58

LCRUZA (VIC) replied:

I run an Arrid twin charge in my Trayon for 2 x 120AmHr Fullriver AGM's for the past 2 yaers with no problems and no sign of overcharging. When buying the twin charge you need to specify for wet or gel cells as the float votage is different.

Ron
Reply 11 of 11

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