The Forum Needs/Requires Relevant LPG/Diesel Feedback from those that have done

Submitted: Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 13:32
ThreadID: 49462 Views:3517 Replies:8 FollowUps:12
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Its been approx 8 months since the LPG fitting rebate came into force and I was wondering if anybody out there is willing to admit they have put LPG on a diesel 4WD.

If so could you please enlighten me and interested others of the following.

(.5) Make, model and engine config of vehicle fitted to.

(1) Did you have it installed or was it installed pre purchase.

(2) If you had installed – how much did it cost

(3) What system is used.

(4) Size and how many LPG tanks.

(5) Quantity of useable LPG when fully loaded.

(6) Bleed ratio of LPG to Diesel.

(7) Does it make a difference and if so what ie More power, cooler/hotter burn, less/more diesel consumption etc etc.

(8) Would you recommend it and would you repeat the process if you purchased another diesel 4WD.


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Reply By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 13:49

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 13:49
Gday Lucy

.5 '98 2.8 GU

1 I had it done

2 $4200 or therabouts, 3k back from gov (WA)

3 Dieselgas Australia by lovato's

4 1 28 litre tank mounted underneath

5 24 - 26 litres about

6 approx 1 in 4

7 about 13 % more power on the dyno, don't know the temps, genera;;y seems to be a 1:1 replacement gas for diesel (instead of 14l / 100km, is about 11 diesel, 3 lpg or something like that.

8 At the moment unsure, as I have had a little trouble with mine, both the gas and the engine. The lpg stopped working a few months ago, aparently the converters are affected by an oily residue in aussie lpg, will be fixed under warrenty when I can get to a large town. At theis stage I am not the best one to answer this question, as The car isn't running the best with or without the gas...

Cheers Andrew
AnswerID: 261018

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 14:21

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 14:21
Nice prompt reply Andrew - thank you.

Re (8) do you think the LPG is the cause of you sytem not 'running the best'.

Re (6) How does your system work when bleeding in the LPG.

Does it manually bleed in from start up or is it managed by some Computer chip thingy linked to the Engine ECU

$3,000 rebate is sensational
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Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 17:18

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 17:18
I don't think the lpg is to blame....its a bit of a wierd one. One problem I am still working on is the bubbles in the coolant, its not severe, and another member and I are working through the cheap options first before the big dollar fixes.....head???

The other problem it seems to have is a bit of a splutter or misfire. I didn't notice it before the gas was fittted, and being a diesel its a little unusual and hard to nail down the cause. It does it when the lpg isnt switched on, (or currently not working). The electronics of the lpg system shouldn't be intefering with the lpg system, but we don't know yet.

It is a computerised system, which doesnt introduce the gas until a preset rpm, and has throttle position, rpm, and inlet pressure sensors to allow it to give the 'right'amount of lpg. It gets no information from the car's ecu, but piggybacks onto the crank position sensor for rpm. It is all programmable by computer to whatever suits the driver and engine. Unfortunately the nearest liscensed bloke with a computer is a couple of thousand k's away, so I can't have it played with so to speak.

Another company who makes a system have their ecu in the car configured so you can plug your mobile into it and they can tune it or make adjustments wherever you have coverage. I wish this could be done with mine, or even better, get my hands on the program for my system so I can tweak it a bit until I am happy with it.

Might do a torrent search, and see how many viruses I can get!

Cheers Andrew

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Follow Up By: stefan P (Penrith NSW) - Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 17:40

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 17:40
G'day Andrew, That other member is going to type quietly so the car can't hear me!!! LOL Touch wood mine has been behaving its self for the last few 6 or so months. I am still none the wiser so I stay at 100kph maybe a little more and that seems too work . Discussed it with the wife and we came to the conclusion IF and WHEN it goes bang. We will re-engine it with a V8. I am not putting anymore $$$$ into this motor. But I will keep the car as its perfect in every way for what I want, plus to much trouble to start again with extras.

Cheers Stefan
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Follow Up By: Graham & Lynne - Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 22:42

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 22:42
Andrew
the bubbles in radiator are LPG .because corrision in LPG conveter between coolant circuit and LPG cicuit due to poor coolant additive or "stray current".Need new converter
Graham
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Follow Up By: Member - andrew B (Kununurra) - Sunday, Sep 09, 2007 at 11:33

Sunday, Sep 09, 2007 at 11:33
Gday Stefan, Yep, I think I will stop at a water pump and a thermostat housing as you did, then carry enough coolant around, drive it til it pops, then re evaluate.

Gday Graham, I also suspected the LPG as the bubbles, so I Tied a plastic bag over the radiator neck and ran the engine for a while. I didn't get much filling (probably a good thing for the engine and myself!) and took to the plastic bag with a match. No flames, so may not be the gas, still a possibility, although I would suspect the LPG tank to have dropped a bit by now, still full after nearly 4 months.

Hope it all ends up simple

Cheers Andrew
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Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 14:56

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 14:56
Lucy, you flammin idiot!!!!! You have to look no further than your friendly 4x4 club's treasurer......get with the game plan, you bloody wally!!! ;-))))
AnswerID: 261024

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 15:01

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 15:01
I may have been a bit harsh on ya, poor bar-stool!!!

David had his Patrol done several months ago and recently did a return trip to Darwin with his wobbly box hangin' off the back (19 footer I think it is).

90% of the trip was with the van on and the other 10% was when they went out to Rainbow Valley and Chambers Pillar without it.

I think the fuel economy he got out of the 4.2 overall was about 11.3 litres/100. However, on the shorter bit with nothing on the towball, he got in the low 10's.

Power-wise....... easy.......it's like a petrol; simple as that!!!!

Cheers ya ol' fuddy-duddy

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic)&Moses - Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 15:43

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 15:43
Roachie, I don't think he could fit a tank underneath poor Lucy's belly. I think it would have to go under the bonnet along side the Endless Air compressor. Makes that pregnant bonnet more useable ;-D)))))








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Follow Up By: Olcoolone- Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 20:25

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 20:25
I think Lucy may want the information for him self and not for the good of this forum as said.

So Roachie what added warning devices have you had fitted for you LPG and I heard that is you fill your tyres up with LPG instead of air ......they act as long range tanks for the long distance hauls.

Regards Richard
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Follow Up By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 20:54

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 20:54
G'day Richard,

Thanks for the idea.....It'll save me big $$$$ on trying to fit a bigger LPG tank.....70 litres of LPG and 175 of diesel is just not enough!!! haha......

As for a warning "buzzer" for the LPG; I DO have one fitted! It has never gone off (yet), thank goodness; cos when/if it does, you'll hear it in Adelaide.... _BOOM_!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahaha
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Reply By: RFLundgren (WA) - Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 22:27

Saturday, Sep 08, 2007 at 22:27
Hey Lucy

Details below

If so could you please enlighten me and interested others of the following.

(.5) Patrol GU III 3.0 TD

(1) I had it installed.

(2) Total cost including re-routing of exhaust $3947 inc GST with $3000 nack from rebates.

(3) D-gas, no computer stuff and injected post turbo.

(4) 1 tank about 28 litres.

(5) 27 usable litres of LPG.

(6) At the moment running about 4/1 diesel / LPG.

(7) Definately notice the increase in power, cant tell you about temps as I dont have a EGT guage fitted and as for economy I cant say as yet as I have only have it installed for about 4 or 5 weeks, but economy does seem to be better. Used to get around 950 on the 2 tanks of diesel (125 litres) now adding 2 gas fills am up around the 1200 - 1250 mark so cant complain about that.

(8) Would definately recommend it but do your research as their are 2 different systems one pre turbo and one post turbo. Yes I would definatley do it again if I were to change my current vechicle.



Cheers

Richard

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AnswerID: 261110

Reply By: 4Harves- Sunday, Sep 09, 2007 at 02:43

Sunday, Sep 09, 2007 at 02:43
Lucy,

I would have about the same results as Richard on an 04 Patrol. We tow an off-road camper and the power increase is very noticeable, especially if the gas runs out, now that we are used to the power, it feels like a slug.
The tank fits neatly under body with no loss of clearance.
The extra K's from the tank also help when travelling. Around a $4k outlay with $3k back from the Gov in WA.
Would I recommend it and do it again? I have 6 work colleagues that have had it fitted since me (in different makes and models) and would not say a bad thing about it. As far as I am concerned it is all a positive.

Cheers,
Chris
AnswerID: 261133

Reply By: Member - Roachie (SA) - Sunday, Sep 09, 2007 at 09:59

Sunday, Sep 09, 2007 at 09:59
Lucky,

The one thing nobody has mentioned here is LONGEVITY.

My 6.5 Chev has had it's LPG fitted since April 2001 (the 6.5 was fitted in 12/2000). So, even though I've only owned the truck since last November, it is fair to say that the LPG doesn't cause any damage. This donk hasn't had the heads off yet, but I would be willing to bet they would be in better condition than a similar motor without LPG. Also, the oil stays good for longer and you should be able to extend the period between oil changes.
AnswerID: 261163

Reply By: Member - 'Lucy' - Sunday, Sep 09, 2007 at 13:22

Sunday, Sep 09, 2007 at 13:22
Firstly - thank you everyone who responded.

(2) Yes I did ask the question for myself and others as there has been a number of post saying people had installed this type of fuel system, however there were followups answering all of the questions mentioned above.

(3) Obviously WA is the state to have the installation done in as the rebate is $1,000 extra

(4) Roachie, you know I am aware of your vehicles LPG installation, however from memory it is fitted to a normally aspirated V* diesel and 'manually' controlled.

(5) The differences in the LPG kits available also vary a lot.


So overall I get the impression that the LPG doesn't damage the engines, makes the fitted vehcle go like a 'masseratti', improves fuel consumption etc etc.

Also I was trying to determine if the extra burn from the LPG caused or contributed to O/heating issues.

PS

John (R)

There is a word to describe people like you who play with 'cows bitz' (LOL)

AnswerID: 261199

Reply By: geordie4x4 - Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 12:40

Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 12:40
Diesel Gas Australia system, Fitted to 3L GU Patrol In Perth

I had the Diesel/gas Australia system fitted a few months ago to my Patrol GU series IV ZD30 DDTi 3L turbo auto.

It is good and the performance is great but there were quite a few things that I was not entirely happy with about the quality of the fitting.

(1) Did you have it installed or was it installed pre purchase
The Diesel Gas Australia distributor (Mark Collins) sent me to United fuel injection in Redcliffe. They were very helpful. Unfortunately because they were also very busy the fitting job was outsourced to another guy. I was not told that this would be the case.

(2) If you had installed – how much did it cost
Cost $4500 less the rebate (when I get it)
Also had to modify the exhaust $190
Fitted a boost gauge $95 and exhaust pyrometer $260 in gauge pod $90 on pillar.

(3) What system is used.
Diesel Gas Australia

(4) Size and how many LPG tanks.
1 tank 27 L fitted where the muffler was
(5) Quantity of useable LPG when fully loaded.
I only seem to fill a max of 25L when it is empty

(6) Bleed ratio of LPG to Diesel.
Gas use for mine is tuned to be on the minimal setting. I had heard bad things about the risks of over powering the ZD30 motor so I wanted to be conservative. Gas used is about 25L gas per 150L diesel on the highway and a bit more in the city. The nice thing about the Diesel gas system is that it can be computer tuned on the dyno to set a Map curve that delivers gas accurately depending on the turbo boost and engine revs. Maximum gas is delivered at hard acceleration and drops off at cruising speed, this gives good power increase and better economy. I do not need to put the foot down as hard when towing a trailer.

(7) Does it make a difference and if so what ie More power, cooler/hotter burn, less/more diesel consumption etc etc.
The power increase is noticeable when the gas is switched on. I also fitted a bigger exhaust and 33” Xterrain tyres at the same time so the gains in power have been increased by the exhaust and somewhat reduced by bigger tyres.

Exhaust gas temp is about 20 to 50 C higher with the gas on. Pyrometer is fitted just after the turbo.
I do not need to accelerate as hard with the gas on. It pulls up hills far better than before.
Emissions test: Hydrocarbon emissions have increased slightly rather than decreased (as I was lead to believe) but particulate material (black smoke) is reduced to nothing, even at full throttle. Oil stays clean for a lot longer.
Engine temp is slightly cooler but exhaust temp is slightly up?

(8) Would you recommend it and would you repeat the process if you purchased another diesel 4WD.

I am happy with the system but not as happy as I should be.

Things I did not like:
The gas filler was stuck down low near the tow bar where it could easily get bashed off. I told them that I did not like this but they said that is the standard position. More like the easy way out.

I had it moved to inside the fuel flap and the Diesel gas guy provided a neat screw in fitting (cork screw) that they use on petrol instillations where they remove the sub-tank. It is now neatly fitted into the top one of the two Patrol filler caps. I also made a duel tank filler neck by adapting one from a 100 series Cruiser so I can fill both main and reserve from the one filler cap (who said Patrols aren’t as good as a Cruiser now it is a hybrid).

The bash plate over the tank was sub-standard and it got knocked back by the Police inspector when I went over the pits as it did not adequately shield the exhaust from the gas tank. Diesel gas gave me a bigger bash plate but I am fussy so I ended up making a complete bash plate that covered the front and sides of the tank. Because the exhaust was moved to go around the tank ( the gas tank is where the muffler used to be), the bash plate has to cover the entire side of the tank between the exhaust and tank to also act as a heat shield.

The electrical wiring was fitted through the main rubber grommet on the passenger side firewall. This was by cutting the rubber seal and was not sealed up properly. I have had wet carpet, grrrrrrr. Had to do the job properly myself.

I used a 3" Vortex exhaust which in hindsight is a bit big to easily have clearance around the gas tank and between the tail shaft. I would recommend a 2.5 to 2.75” exhaust for better fit.

The last thing that is a real B*#@H is getting the $2000 rebate from the Commonwealth Gov. MAKE SURE YOUR VEHICLE IS REGISTERED AS PRIVATE USE BEFORE YOU GET THE GAS FITTED.

I bought my Patrol from a dealer who paid my rego for 3 months (nice of them). They (dealer) can only pay it at the commercial rate (not private). I transferred it to my name straight away but I could not get it back-dated to the private rate as it is already paid for three months. Didn’t think it would be a problem.

I had the gas fitted, got the WA State Govt $1000 rebate quickly but the Commonwealth Gov have knocked it back on a technicality, because at the time the gas was fitted, the dealers three months of rego had not quite expired, even though I had paid for the next year at the private rate they are saying it was still registered as a commercial vehicle up till it expired and therefore, not eligible. This sucks big time.

Geordie
AnswerID: 261533

Follow Up By: Member - 'Lucy' - Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 13:51

Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 13:51
Geordie

Thank you for the time and effort in your reply.

You have answered everything I wanted to know about the Retro fitting of LPG to Diesel.

The rebate thing in WA seems to have attracted a greater percentage of those taking advantage of this technology - with the extra $1,000 .

However from what you say I take it the Federal Government stooged you out of their $2,000 rebate.

The standard of the fitting is a problem with most things these days as the fitters just want to get it on or in and working. Not too fussed about the finer points like properly sealing and protecting bits and pieces.

Once again, thanks for the feedback.
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FollowupID: 522920

Follow Up By: geordie4x4 - Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 14:27

Tuesday, Sep 11, 2007 at 14:27
I am still fighting for the $2000 rebate. The WA DPI (vehicle registrations) have given me a letter to say that it was transfered as soon as was possible and they were happy to approve their rebate as the vehicle is for private use. I will see how it goes.

My other comments regarding the gas on a 3L Patrol.
I found that initally when driving it there was no problem with the boost going too high. However when towing a trailer at just under 100 on the speedo the boost would do sudden spikes to ofer 20 psi this would drop if I accelerated or backed off. This was with bigger tyres so I was really travelling at over 100kmph. At 110 on the speedo it seemed great and pulled well, did not do boost spikes but the economy dropped off and risk of speeding. Became really anoying when on a long run I did not want to over stress the thing.

With the gas off it did not pull as well but also did not do the boost spikes as I needed to be constantly on the accelerator just that little more to keep the speed constant. So it seems that under load (from towing and bigger wheels) with the gas on, I was allways just backing off the peddle and that is where the boost seems to have wild fluctuations (0 psi to 25psi) from the ECU and EGR systems. With gas off and accelerating slightly the boost was fine but exhaust temp would climb to over 500C. With gas off it was difficult to pull out and pass a truck with it on there was fantastic acceleration from 100 to 120 ish even with the trailer in tow it pulled well up to 140 km (that is on a private test track of course).

I have since fitted a dawes valve and it all runns perfectly with no boost ever over 20psi.
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FollowupID: 522934

Reply By: Ferret - Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 at 12:56

Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 at 12:56
Has anyone used one of these 30l tanks as extra storage on a GQ petrol/gas. Do you think the gov would pay for that ? Every bit helps and this is the first real option i've seen of extra gas storage.
Scott
AnswerID: 261882

Follow Up By: geordie4x4 - Friday, Sep 14, 2007 at 15:19

Friday, Sep 14, 2007 at 15:19
Yes the new tanks of about 27 to 30L should fit easily up where your muffler is as an extra gas supply. There is no reason that you cant use a tank designed for a diesel gas system for yuor storage.

Rebate
The way I read the rebate is this: If you are installing a system to a second hand vehicle you can get up to $2000. This has to be fitted by a registered fitter but it can be a second hand system. You can only claim this once in a 5 year period and it must be a private vehicle.

If you already have the gas fitted and want to claim the cost of an additional tank. I would talk to one of the gas fitters to see what they fill out on their form. It might be ok if they say they fitted a complete system.

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FollowupID: 523543

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