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Follow up on post 51090 When I slam the brakes hard

Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 11:59

Member - Troll 81 (QLD)



Morning all.

I had the Patrol at the brakes place and they could not find a fault anywhere. They checked all brake components and suspension and steering and did not see anything wrong. They also had it on the dyno and checked the pad wear and said it's all okay. I guess next step will be a suspension specialist and see if they can find anything or maybe a second opinion with another brake place.

The car still moved to the right a little when I slam the brakes but again sometimes it wont and sometimes it will.....so trying to find the problem is very hard.

I also rotated the tyres and balanced and aligned

any input will be much appreciated

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Regards, Troll 81

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AnswerID: 274766   Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 12:06

KSV. replied:

Some oil marks on rotors/pads? I would try to swap left and rights pads over and see what happens.
And BTW how hard is this effect and what do you mean sometimes? Do you have ABS? Try to disable it temporary.
Cheers
Serg
Reply 1 of 3
FollowupID: 538409   Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 12:15

Member - Troll 81 (QLD) posted:

I don't have ABS and there's no oil marks or anything that looks out of place. When you brake the car will move to the right depending on how fast you go it could be 1.5m's that it moves and very scary at high speeds. By sometimes I mean it will do it and sometimes it won't....very strange

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Regards, Troll 81

FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 538411   Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 12:22

KSV. posted:

Could be piston stucking. Have you tried thoughtfully flush your system? Also you can take pistons off and inspect internals for any strange marks or rust or something.
Cheers
Serg
FollowUp 2 of 2
AnswerID: 274777   Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 13:32

Gerhardp1 replied:

Not sure exactly how the brakes are designed on your vehicle, but on the Jackaroo the piston in the caliper presses against the inner pad and onto the rotor, and this in turn pulls the outer pad onto the other side via a "finger" arrangement. This requires the outer pad to slide, which it does on two pins which need to be greased.

An issue with the Jacks is the brake pad wear is so minimal, the brakes are overlooked for service, and the pins are prone to seizing due to water ingress and rust. When seized, the outer pad won't move in evenly if at all and can cause symptoms such as you are having with your car.

Something to look for if the other suggestion re sticking pistons is not the problem.

Reply 2 of 3
AnswerID: 274779   Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 13:46

Harrow replied:

Hi Troll

Try Replace the flexible lines / brake hoses from the left calliper to the axle, a damaged lining can act as a valve and bits can block in line connectors etc making it erratic depending on how you jump on the brakes.
SO left brake works erratically and right OK so pulls to the right

I sorted a mates problem, 15 min to change and bleed and it was cheap and easy

Cheers

Harrow
Reply 3 of 3
FollowupID: 538422   Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 14:04

Member - Matt (Perth-WA) posted:

Troll Harrow is spot on...this is sometime the 'last resort' for brake balance problems.

If you wish to diagnose beofre you spend the money on new hoses...try swapping them over and see if the pulling swaps to the left side.

Just remember your suspect brake is the left side that isnt performing as well as it should.

Have you had the wheels of and pushed the pistons back a little and also ensured the caliper slide work well?

Im not sure what you have done in the past but this is what I would do...

Flush the entire system....bleed the master cyl till it sucks air then refill with a new fluid that has different colour. Bleed all four wheels till the new fluid comes through.

Then with the wheels off you should be able to push the pistons back a little by hand and that will also now allow you to move the floating caliper back and forth a little to prove they are not siezed or grabby.

Then wheels on...pump pedal a few times and test drive....if no better swap the lines over from left to right bleed and retest drive.

If thats not sorted...park in Balga with keys in ignition!!

All the best

Matt.
The Rig
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Lessons in life are free but if you have to be taught something, its usually costs you!
FollowUp 1 of 9
FollowupID: 538423   Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 14:12

KSV. posted:

He says "sometimes". I reckon that in case of house it would be consistent behaviour. Still worth to try.
Cheers
Serg
FollowUp 2 of 9
FollowupID: 538427   Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 14:35

Member - Troll 81 (QLD) posted:

Hey Matt

They did check the pistons at the shop this morning and said they moved as expected. I will take it to another brake place during the week and see what they say

thanks

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Regards, Troll 81

FollowUp 3 of 9
FollowupID: 538428   Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 14:35

Member - Troll 81 (QLD) posted:

Hey Matt

They did check the pistons at the shop this morning and said they moved as expected. I will take it to another brake place during the week and see what they say

thanks

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Regards, Troll 81

FollowUp 4 of 9
FollowupID: 538496   Submitted: Monday, Dec 03, 2007 at 18:56

Louie the fly posted:

I fell for the old 'internally chaffed brake hose' trick in my 50's Dodge. Replaced / recond everything except the front hoses. Couldn't work out why it would pull to the left all the time. Someone suggested change hoses. I did this, stipped & cleaned front wheel cylinders and hey presto, no more crazy breaking. Also had a problem on my old GQ Patrol. Turned out that right hand outer (I think) pad was severely glazed over. I took the pads out and gave them a rub on some course sand paper and it fixed it. Troll, did they change your brake pads?

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There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot.
FollowUp 5 of 9
FollowupID: 538569   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 09:15

Member - Troll 81 (QLD) posted:

They didn't do the pads but I did them about 2 months ago and he said the pad wear is even so the problem is not there

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Regards, Troll 81

FollowUp 6 of 9
FollowupID: 538573   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:18

KSV. posted:

Errrr… Its getting really funny. If car pulling to side, than it is obvious that it brakes more by one side then by other – no other forced around (except of God or Devil of course). Thus eventually pads have to be worn differently. Unless it happens once in blue moon.
Serg
FollowUp 7 of 9
FollowupID: 538641   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 17:09

Member - Matt (Perth-WA) posted:

No sorry Serg you are wrong.

Brake faults in 99% of the time DO NOT BRAKE BETTER....THEY BRAKE WORSE so the the vehicle will pull to the side with the GOOD brakes and away from the side with the POOR brakes.

Leaking wheel cylinder...reduces brake efficiency at that wheel
siezed piston....reduces brake efficiency at that wheel
siezed caliper slide...reduces brake efficiency at that wheel
damaged brake hose (blockage)...reduces brake efficiency at that wheel

need to go on mate?
The Rig
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Lessons in life are free but if you have to be taught something, its usually costs you!
FollowUp 8 of 9
FollowupID: 538645   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 17:23

KSV. posted:

Matt,
Agree with everything what you said. It seems to me that you miss my point a bit. I have said that if it pull to side, then it is obvious that one side brakes harder then another one (for any of those listed and unlisted by you reasons or combination of them). But if problem consistent, that with time there should be uneven wearing on opposite pads.
Cheers
Serg
FollowUp 9 of 9

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