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Gas Guzzling 4wdrives

Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 08:59

Stephen M (NSW)

In Todays Telegraph, here we go again !!!!


Paying Double To Park 4WD
Drivers in environmentally friendly cars will pay less for parking in the CBD while gas-guzzling four wheel drives will pay double under a city of Sydney Council Plan.
Under the proposal to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, cars with a “medium impact” on the environment will pay the current standard parking rates.
Very low impact cars will pay half the cost, low impact will pay 75 per cent and high impact vehicles will pay double.
The proposal, to go before the council next week, will only apply to resident and business parking permits.
The environmental impact of cars will be based on the Federal Government’s Green Vehicle Guide. All cars sold before 2004 will continue to pay the standard permit fee.
“An incentive scheme will help stimulate the use of more sustainable vehicles,” Lord Major Clover Moore said.

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What A Life
ThreadID: 52223 Replies: 9
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AnswerID: 274930   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 09:54

Dunco (NSW) replied:

Fantastic,

Another excuse to stay away from Sydney :)




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Dunco
Reply 1 of 9
FollowupID: 538574   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:19

Scoof posted:

I'm with you, stay away from all the smelly city's. :-)
FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 538581   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:55

robak (QLD) posted:

"stay away from all the smelly city's"

Ha ha, I like the irony.

:)

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teewah beach
FollowUp 2 of 2
AnswerID: 274932   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:12

KSV. replied:

I have read report somewhere concluding that “green” cars not really so green. And it makes lots of sense to me. It is true something like Prius really emits *MARGINALY* smaller amount of gases *IN CITY DRIVING ONLY* comparing to small cars like Yaris, however they loose on freeways to the same cars. However it takes a hell lot of more energy end resources to produce such cars. Batteries bigger offender in this area – they require a lot of electricity (and therefore carbon dioxide!!) to be produced to make one. Also they use much more copper – no so friendly production either and list going on. Furthermore when time came to retire them yet again we need to pollute environment much more than to retire “conventional” car. Recently Honda unveils latest invention – zero emission car. It run on hydrogen and where hydrogen came from? Correct – water hydrolyze by not-so-green electricity. Actually report concluded that Hammer one of the greenest car around, but I recon it a bit of twist.

So do not full yourself – “green” means only shifting pollution somewhere else, and sometimes not only shifting it, but amplify it also.

Cheers
Serg
Reply 2 of 9
FollowupID: 538608   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 13:52

Ingtar posted:

As with any new technology, resource requirements are always greater when they first come out. Once they gain public acceptance and fall into mass production they become much more efficient to produce.

I agree with you they are much more suited to inner city driving, where our cars often spend more time idling at lights than actually driving. The benefit with electric cars here is they are most efficient at take-off, and don't need to be 'running' to achieve immediate response.

As for the production of hydrogen, there are many 'greener' ways to produce the electricity required, and the upside is that hydrogen can store that energy. This means that solar and wind generation is more suitable because you don't necessarily need peak production at the same time as there is peak demand. The downside is there needs to be significant demand (read social acceptance) before these production plants become economically viable.

I have also read the report you talk about, and I believe it was sourced from America, can't remember exactly though. It made some assumptions about battery life etc in the Prius that are still to be proven. I think the Prius is now approaching the 10year age that the batteries are supposed to last, and they haven't had to do a heck of a lot of replacements yet. So be wary what reports you read, and what assumptions they make.

Probably the biggest adjustment to the 'green-ness' of your car is the way you drive it. A little less right boot can go a long way.
FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 538709   Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 05, 2007 at 01:39

Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) posted:

green” means only shifting pollution
oot on its as stupid as those proclaiming biofeuls to be enviornentally freindly it couldnt be further than the truth
you dont need to leave perth to go bush
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You dont need to leave Perth to go bush
FollowUp 2 of 2
AnswerID: 274934   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:27

Robnicko replied:

Another tax......another reason to get rid of local govt!!!!!
Reply 3 of 9
FollowupID: 538577   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:43

DIO posted:

....or (consider getting rid of) the 'gas guzzling 4wd' if yours happens to be one such beast. Of course many (mostly the more modern) 4 wds are highly engineered with very sophisticated engine and fuel management systemsand and are considered more suitable and relevant to the times we live in.
FollowUp 1 of 3
FollowupID: 538584   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 11:07

KSV. posted:

Nope, I would rather rid of citycouncils if I have a choice. Even if you personally dislike someone’s 4WD it does not means that everyone dislike it also. But tell me what is use of citycouncils whatsoever? I fail to se them doing *ANYTING* useful except of collecting rubbish (in fact it is rubbish collecting company collect it – not citycouncil). Oh, but they collect money for parking and never fix those curbs what damage any wheel size smaller than 33”. And yes, I have to pay them for permit for my extension. And as far as I can see only and only one reason for me to pay for this permit is to notify my council that they can lift my rates! In effect I am paying them for them to charge me more!
Nop, I would rather preserve my 4WD and rid of citycouncil. Pity earlier or later it would be other way around.
Serg.
FollowUp 2 of 3
FollowupID: 538591   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 12:12

Robnicko posted:

Dio,
My 4wd sits in the garage Mon-Fri and comes out on weekends only......4wheel version of a trailbike,
My gas guzzling 4x4 is late model on LPG and always kept in good nic so I have no green conscious. But honestly as KSV said 'what do local councils do'?


FollowUp 3 of 3
AnswerID: 274943   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 10:46

PhilZD30Patrol replied:

Hi

What annoys me is how all politicians get driven around in Holden Statesmen and Ford LTDs and hop on planes whenever they get a little bored and flit all over the country. Then they have the hide to want to tax 4wders who often drive hi tech low emission Turbo Diesels.

For example, imagine the green house gases emitted by Johnny Howard when he used to drive from Kirrabilli to Mascot and fly in his 737 - 800 to Canberra and back all in a days work?

Then there was all the poisonous gases that was emitted in the Cabinet Room by Costello, Howard and Downer, not forgetting ex Senator Vanstone before her sacking.

If they didn't have us to blame they would pick on someone else, such is life.

Cheers
phil
Reply 4 of 9
FollowupID: 538590   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 12:06

Smudger posted:

On that note ..it's be interesting to see what vehicles are being used to ferry the bofins and polies around in over on Bali at the Climate Change shebang.

Let's just all enjoy the freedom that we now have, in another 20 years most of the roads to anywhere remotely interesting in Australian wil be sealed and Our time will be the "olden days".
We really are very fortunate to be able to see some parts of the Country like Lawson did.
FollowUp 1 of 3
FollowupID: 538657   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 18:27

Felix Oflanigan posted:

looks like its okay to sh-tcan the previous coalition government on this site but dont dare post anything bad about KEVIN 07 because your comment will be removed.let me guess the theme song for this site. WORKERS UNITED WE WILL NEVER BE DEFETED.
FollowUp 2 of 3
FollowupID: 538721   Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 05, 2007 at 06:41

Gramps (NSW) posted:

Felix,

LOL just substitute Rudd, Swan, Albanese, Crean, Gillard etc etc and it's the same. Phil is just displaying his political bias again.

Regards


Al


Have you noticed that your memories, prior to colour TV, are in black and white
FollowUp 3 of 3
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AnswerID: 274960   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 12:40

Steve Ellis replied:

This is the sort of stupid decisions you will get when you elect the feral greens to any sort of power. The Lord Mayor of Sydney is a green. They who believe they know best will lord it over us who do know best, and serve us right. If normal people wont put their hand up to be elected to govt. Local or other, we get what we deserve, ratbags.
Reply 5 of 9
AnswerID: 274969   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 14:10

Member - John and Val W (ACT) replied:

The ABC news website is running a similar story (and its open for comment) and as usual 4WDs are portrayed as the only gas guzzling monsters. Safety (or the alleged lack of safety in 4WDs) gets a run too - interesting as on the same site is another story of a NRMA survey showing that family sedans fail rear visibility test.

It would be so refreshing to see a debate about the environmental impact of travelin which all forms of transport were included (trucks, trains, air, sedans etc), whole of vehicle life factors were included and facts rather than prejudice and emotion got an airing. We live in hope....

Val
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J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
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Reply 6 of 9
AnswerID: 274978   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 15:17

Smudger replied:

Just had a look at NSW RTA New Vehicle Registrations for the last 12 months. Oct 06 - Sept 07. By my calculations we (Off-Road Passenger Vehicles) count for:
25.5% of Total NSW Rego's (Passenger Vehicles)
23% of Sydney Region Rego's(Passenger Vehicles)

We represent a very large block of the total market. That translates into voting power and buying power. Don't just let off steam here, let the media and the pollies know that you are fed up with being bashed and branded a bad citizen, merely on the basis of the type of gearbox your car has.

If you're really fed up, write/email the SMH, Tele' and the TV networks and let 'em hear from you, and copy you local pollie.
Reply 7 of 9
AnswerID: 275008   Submitted: Tuesday, Dec 04, 2007 at 19:05

Kiwi & "Mahindra" replied:

So they should, I think its a good idea. It might slow people down who buy 4wd's for the reason of having a "big" car.

Its also puts a crack down on car producers who arent meeting current restrictions, ie, people wont buy their cars because of it!

Up in Sydney the other day and the city has become a real grotty place, everywhere is filthy, bins are burning from ciggies, rubbish everywhere....should I go on??? Maybe she should use to money to cleanthe joint up!

It might give people a reason to leave the city...and a reason for me to never go back!!

Laura
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Reply 8 of 9
AnswerID: 275051   Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 05, 2007 at 01:27

Member - Barnesy (SA) replied:

Is this really about pollution or a means of reducing congestion in the CBD? Nobody can argue that big 4wds don't belong in the busy CBD and worsen traffic congestion.

I believe strongly in reducing effects of climate change. But it is the "in thing" at the moment.

These sort of initiatives are often started under the guise of the latest fad, but in reality that is the only way many people will accept new laws!

Barnesy
Millstream NP spring WA
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It takes years of hard work to create something. Any fool can destroy it in 5 minutes.
Reply 9 of 9

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