Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

There are ELV sockets available. Don't use 240V sockets 'PLEASE'

Mainey (wa) posted:

Derek,
why not actually explain to people the reasons why they should not use the same type of connections I've been using for many years, that are connected 24/7 between the two Solar panels and out in all types of weather up on the Solar panel roof rack, without hassles too :-)
(Maybe I'm just lucky)

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

I can't believe you are asking that question in public.

Because if someone who does not know your unique way of thinking plugs the "(Maybe I'm just lucky)" "*extension* lead with two "MALE" ends " into a 240V socket or FEMALE end of a live 240V extension lead your solar panels and probably your whole setup becomes LIVE.

WITH NO EARTH TO TRIP THE SAFETY SWITCH !!!

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Besides that it is just STUPID

Mainey (wa) posted:

Derek, You post:-> "WITH NO EARTH TO TRIP THE SAFETY SWITCH"

It's only an EXTENSION LEAD, it's fitted between EXISTING "items" (battery & solar panel cable)

If the original cable does NOT have a "safety switch" can you then PLEASE explain why, when you add an extension lead, it will then require a EXTRA safety switch to be fitted as well ??



Derek, I posted:-> "" FILL the 3rd HOLE (earth) IN PLUG with *araldite* so a NORMAL 240v plug WON'T CONNECT.

Yes, the complete OPOSITE to normal, because it will then *N O T* allow the current to short out if unplugged and earthed !! and can *O N L Y* be used for the intended purpose.""

I repeat:-> it CAN'T be conected to a 240v plug and CAN'T go 240v live !!

If you think it's 'stupid' that's ok by me, it cost me less than a cup of coffee and is more years old than I care to remember too.

Mainey . . .

Member - Phil G (SA) posted:

Mainey,
There are lots of things that are cheap and work fine, but I agree with Derek that to use 240V plugs is stupid, and to tell others on an open forum is even worse.

Mainey (wa) posted:

Phil, will you please *explain* in TECHNICAL electrical terms why it's "stupid" when it works, is easy to use, simple to assemble and costs next to nothing.

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Because some generators are banned for the same STUPIDITY

Banned Generators

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Here is a better article.

Unsafe Plugs

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Pursuant to Part IVA, Section 33C of the Electricity Act 1945, it is the opinion of the Director of Energy Safety that the following electrical appliances are likely to become unsafe or dangerous in use:•

Any associated flexible leads with a plug that can be plugged into both the 12 Volt DC and the 240 Volt AC socket-outlet. Persons are therefore prohibited from selling, hiring or using these types of generators and leads.

REQUIRED ACTION: Owners of these types and models of generators (or similarly configured generators) and battery charging leads must cease using them immediately.

Any lead that has a plug that can be inserted into both the 12 Volt DC and the 240 Volt AC socket-outlets must be destroyed immediately.

Albert Koenig DIRECTOR OF ENERGY SAFETY11 July2005

Member - Phil G (SA) posted:

" in TECHNICAL electrical terms why it's "stupid" when it works....."

Mainey,
This is a forum. People take advice. Someone out there will think its a great idea, and have a bunch sitting in the shed. They make up your male/male *extension* lead and store it in the garage. Then their 5 year old child comes along, and plugs it into a powerpoint. The kid dies. The parents will blame YOU.

Mainey (wa) posted:

It is fast becomming very evident some people don't understand the written language we use here in Australia, on this forum it is ENGLISH.

I posted:-> ""Fill the 3rd hole (earth) in plug with ARALDYTE so a 'normal' 240v plug WILL *N O T* connect.
(yes, the complete OPOSITE to normal, because it will then NOT allow the current to short out if unplugged and earthed !! and can *ONLY* be used for the intended purpose""

In English what that means is: you, your children, or their children or your neighbours children can NOT plug this cable into ANY 240v lead, cable, switch or device !!


Because it will NOT fit, it CAN'T fit and can't be used with ANY 240v cable, it's as simple as that.

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

No, unfortunately you are the one who does not understand.

YOU made a 10cm cord with 2 MALE plugs.

Now YOU take that same cord, forget about your araldited FEMALE.

YOU plug that 10cm cord into your household socket. Now my dear friend ask your wife to stand ready with a chunk of wood to knock you loose as I tell YOU to touch that MALE plug on the other end of the 10cm cord !!!!!

What the !!!!!!!!!!

Mainey (wa) posted:

Derek,
I posted:-> ""Fill the 3rd hole (earth) in plug with ARALDYTE so a 'normal' 240v plug WILL *N O T* connect.
(yes, the complete OPOSITE to normal, because it will then NOT allow the current to short out if unplugged and earthed !! and can *ONLY* be used for the intended purpose""

Derek,
you can't FORGET about the Araldited Female plug - it's part of the 10cm long double adapter that is used with the Solar system, it stays up on the solar panel it's attached to, and the Solar panel is NOT taken into a home !!

All with a cost of about a cup of coffee, compared to Anderson plugs that will do the same job, but may cost $30 ??

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

So how is it moved into the sun and where are the plugs, sockets and extension leads that do this ?

What you have created is a back-feed cable and it is illegal.

Mainey (wa) posted:

Derek,
READ MY FIRST POST :->
""Tim.... Make up a 10cm long *extension* lead with two "MALE" ends which will each accept the Solar panel cable (which has 'female' ends) & one "female" end, WHICH WILL CONNECT DIRECT to the LONG Solar panel EXTENSION LEAD (which has 'male' end) and will connect direct to the BATTERY.""

Is self explanatory, they are TWO (2) separate items, one is attached to the Solar panel, the other attaches to the Battery.

The panel is moved into the sun with the EXTENSION LEAD

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

"(which has 'male' end) and will connect direct to the BATTERY."

or

ANY OTHER 240V SOCKET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Member - Phil G (SA) posted:

Mainey,
You haven't read my post. Here it is again:

"This is a forum. People take advice. Someone out there will think its a great idea, and have a bunch sitting in the shed. They make up your male/male *extension* lead and store it in the garage. Then their 5 year old child comes along, and plugs it into a powerpoint. The kid dies. The parents will blame YOU."

That is why its illegal.
That is why you shouldn't post it on a forum.
What you do to save a couple of dollars is your own business, but don't suggest to others that they should do the same.

Mainey (wa) posted:

Derek,
Do you agree MALE sockets have the electricity going into them from the cable, or the OTHER END (female plug)

The Male socket is ALWAYS the power OUTLET !!
The Female (plug) is the INLET !!

BUT - in this case it's from a 12v battery - N O T from 240 Volt.

IT CAN'T connect to 240v - ONLY to a 12v battery, because it has different attachments at the 'other' end which are for attaching to a 12v battery.

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Sorry Mr M.

240V plugs and sockets are for mains use only and current can travel in both directions and does not follow your rules.

Steve from Top End Explorer Tours posted:

Mainey

Can you put the male end into a 240v socket??

Can you put something (anything) in the female end EG: a fork knife end etc??

More to the point could a child put the socket into a 240v socket, and then put something in the other end??

Or

Does the extension lead have 2 female end or similar??

And does the panels have the male end??

I feel these questions will help this discussion.

Cheers Steve.

Mainey (wa) posted:

Derek,

YES, your correct, it is true, what do you want me to say, I agree with you too, because ""240V plugs and sockets are for mains use only and current can travel in both directions"" yes, unless you use it for 12v.




Derek,
will you please read this slowly:

At the far end of the (12 Volt) Solar panel extension cable, the *opposite* end to the OUTLET or MALE plug, where the electricity enters the extension cable, there is NOT a 240v FEMALE INLET plug or connection !! (fact)

There is a 12v "alligator clip" (for example only) because everyone knows what they look like, NOT a 240v plug. (fact)

So can you please tell me how the 240v electricity will get INTO the extension lead, when there is ONLY a 240v *OUTLET PLUG* at one end ???

question is: HOW does anyone plug it into a 240v SOCKET ???

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Steve,
Can you put the male end into a 240v socket -> NO
Can you put anything in the female end -> YES, as with any plug it has a 'hole'
More to the point could a child put the socket into a 240v socket, and then put something in the other end -> NO
Does the extension lead have 2 female end or similar -> NO
And does the panels have the male end -> YES

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Mainey

Is there any MALE 240V plugs in your 12V system.

If yes then it can be plugged into 240V

Mainey (wa) posted:

Derek,
""Is there any MALE 240V plugs in your 12V system""-> YES
""If yes then it can be plugged into 240V""-> Yes, but it's MALE (INLET plug) only a female (240v OUTPUT) socket can plug into it - 240v female sockets are NOT power in - but power out)
It is attached to the Solar panel, on the roof of vehicle.

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

I give up !

Go for it !

Mainey (wa) posted:

Will pictures assist, may have saved a thousand words ?


Power cable connection from 80W Solarex (right) panel to 123W Sharp (left) panel
Both panels are sitting on poly/nylon plastic sheet to avoid metal/metal contact and metal fatigue.



Same showing simply dis-conected cable to allow quick removal of Solar panel with the ability to add a 12 Mtr "extension" cable, so panel can be put out into the sun.



Old & New Solar technology, showing Solar power conection plugs & removable 80W Solarex panel neatly fitted into roof rack frame on poly/nylon sheet to allow panel movement with-out panel damage on rough roads.

12v 100+ah AGM DC battery

My 12 Mtr extension cable fits between the male plug and a female plug attached in the vehicle wall which is all hard wired with-in the vehicle walls & roof for (my) convienience.

As can be seen by the condition of the plug it's o l d but has never let me down and no idiot or child has ever tried to conect their tv to it :-))

(this is not the method I install or recomend - but it suits my own use !!!)

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

The picture looks like an ELV plug and socket.

I can't see a 3rd pin or earth blocked with aryldite.

Where is the 240V 10cm extension with 2x 240V MALE plugs.

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

"Mainey (wa) replied:
Tim
With mine I use 240v connectors.
Make up a 10cm long *extension* lead with two "MALE" ends which will each accept the Solar panel cable (which has 'female' ends) & one "female" end, which will connect direct to the long Solar panel extension lead (which has 'male' end) and will connect direct to the BATTERY.

Fill the 3rd hole (earth) in plug with araldite so a 'normal' 240v plug won't connect.
(yes, the complete OPOSITE to normal, because it will then not allow the current to short out if unplugged and earthed !! and can ONLY be used for the intended purpose.

Yes, it can also be done with an Anderson plug as the connection device, BUT ... then you may have hassles with other people connecting something to the Anderson plug, because they look just like 'normal' receptors."

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Mainey

Here is where YOU say....

Sorry I made a mistake. I forgot that I used ELV sockets please forget what I said about 240V plugs and sockets and use either ELV plugs and sockets or Anderson plugs.

Humble apologies.

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

ELV plug and socket. (Extra Low Voltage)

As spinifex already stated:
ELV Clipsal NO 438/32 (Female) - Unverfied part numbers.
ELV Clipsal NO 492/32 (Male)

Mainey (wa) posted:

Sorry :-)
Yes, I actually did forget that I had used low voltage sockets, as I've NEVER had to remove the 80 Watt Solarex panel !!

(Umm, please forget what I said about 240v plugs & sockets and use either ELV plugs & sockets or Anderson plugs, even though it's technically possible)

Humble apologies

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

No, most panel have terminal screws.

People use plugs for quick connection.

Dunaruna posted:

My panels have the provision for up to 3 more parallel connections, I thought they all did, thanks for setting me straight.

Mainey (wa) posted:

Dunaruna,
Tim posts:-> ""I want the DOUBLE ADAPTOR as at times I wish to be able to REMOVE one panel from the mount, and place out in the sun when parked in a shady spot - so NEED to be able to EASILY DISCONECT etc.""

By using a "double adaptor" and extension lead he is still using power from ALL solar panels at same time!

Mainey . . .

Dunaruna posted:

Yes, I understood his post. IF he had a parallel connection, that connection would be a double adapter. But he doesn't, so it isn't.

Mainey (wa) posted:

Dunaruna, the basis of Tim's post is:

#Tim needs to wire two (2) solar panels in parallel
#Tim wants to run one SINGLE cable back to the battery
#Tim wants a (removable) double adaptor because at times he wish’s to be able to REMOVE one panel from the mount and place out in the sun when parked in a shady spot
#Tim wants to be able to EASILY disconnect the system to do this

Therefore to me and my English teacher, it clearly indicates Tim does have two (2) Solar panels and he does want (needs) to wire them in PARALLEL in a way that he can EASILY remove one (1) and put it out in the sun while he parks in the shade, just as I do :-)

Dunaruna can you please explain why you believe Tim does not have a ""have a parallel connection"" whith his two (2) Solar panels.

Mainey . . .

Dunaruna posted:

Why are you continuing this line of the thread? My question was asked and answered.

IF (ask your english teacher what the word 'if' means) Tims' solar panel had a parallel connection built into the box (under the panel) it would be a simple matter of making an extension lead that could EASILY (once again, refer to english teacher) be brought out from under panel #1 so that panel #2 could be connected.

I thought ALL panels had the parallel connection built into the box but Derek has advised me otherwise. As I said, asked and answered.

Mainey (wa) posted:

Dunaruna, Yes............ :-))

(and the extension lead connects ? )

Mainey . . .

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators posted:

Mainey

Here is where you also apologize. Dunaruna was simply referring to junction boxes like the BP ones that have multiple connection points in the junction box.

Mainey (wa) posted:

Question:-> How do you 'connect' and/or 'disconnect' the two panels from each other, OR add the EXTENSION CABLE, to put one panel out in the sun, when the two panels are connected via a "junction box like the BP ones that have multiple connection points *IN* the junction box" when the "junction box" is most probably mounted under the panel, which is sitting on the roof of the vehicle ??

Answer:-> 'watsaname' plugs lol

Mainey . . .

Tim Owen posted:

Thanks Derek, great post, I'll give that a bash.

I'm also going to make one up in a Y configuration.

Thanks for all replies.

Mainey (wa) posted:

Mike,
do I understand you will have one panel connected to (and charging) the battery when the "second panel" is out in the sun ??

Mainey . . .

Dunaruna posted:

The parallel connections in the box are by definition a double (or triple) adapter assuming there is not 2 or three other panels already connected. If there is a free slot, simply connect an extension lead.

Of course this is all Dependant on whether or not a particular panel has the extra parallel connections in the first place!

Tim Owen posted:

Hi Mike R,

How would I go about connecting an anderson plug inline?

Sorry, I'm new to all this and am not familiar with all these little techniques.

Photos really help if at all possible.

Tim

Member - Mike DID posted:

Tim - you cut the lead, strip the insulation off both red wires, twist together, solder into the connector. Repeat for the black wire.

Because the current from solar panels is low, you can use wire thin enough so you can fit two wires into the connector.

Tim Owen posted:

Ahhh thanks Mike R.

I thought you were doing some fancy splicing thing with a gadget I'd never heard of. Even I can cut, strip, twist, crimp and solder (badly).

Thanks again.