Tyre problem.... a really weird one

Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 09:08

GoneTroppo Member (FNQ)

This one's got me stumped.

Got a new set of wheels and tyres for the F250.
BFG AT 295/75/16 on an alloy 16x8.
Put them on look nice but the car pulls to the left, a lot!!! Need almost a 1/4 turn on the steering wheel to keep it straight.

Tyre bloke said this can happen and swap them side to side to see if this fixes it then we can do something about it.

Swapped them same result.

So then I put the old tyres back on GY Silent Armour 265/75/16 on 16x7 alloy.

Good as can be, straight no wander at all. Then I swapped them side to side. Perfect track down the highway.

So what's going on?

The BFG's are a bit taller and a bit wider but not much. So you wouldn't think that'd make the difference.

Is this doing something to the suspension or steering?

I took the RTC damper off and put it back on, no difference

The wheels are made specifically for the F250 with correct offset.

Tyre pressures are correct and I did play with them with no change.

If anyone has any thoughts I'd be awfully keen to hear them.



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AnswerID: 377204   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 09:12

Member - Mick O (VIC) replied:

Well known issue with the wide tyres. A forum search should find quite a few responses. the 295's are a very big tyre. I had similar issues with 285's.

Cheers Mick
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AnswerID: 377207   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 09:21

Member - Doug T (NT) replied:

I think you'll find it's got a lot to do with an American type vehicle designed for LHD and using it on roads that are RHD ,surprises me that not a lot of people don't know this ,

I suggest to get in touch with this company and they will explain and fix,

Truck Whisperer

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FollowupID: 644581   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 10:50

GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) posted:

Understand what you are saying, but his is a Brazilian built vehicle inported by Ford Australia which allegedly had the front end rejigged to suit LHD.

Also it doesn't explain why the previous two sets both GY US made tyres did not have the same problem.
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AnswerID: 377211   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 09:37

Serendipity of Mandurah (WA) replied:

Hi Troppo

Had the same thing happen to me recently on my toyota V8 ute. Only this was with tyres I had already put 40k on them. During my 40k service toyota rotated the tyres as part of the deal. Damned if after the car pulled heavily to the left needing almost 1/4 pull to keep it straight. If this was any 2wd car it would need a steering alignment. So off I went to the tyre joint to get things checked. Of course they said with a front diff arrangement you can only get toe in or out unless you have been doing star jumps in your 4x4. Refer back to toyota for look at bushings.

Toyota take a look and phone me to say definately a hard pull to the left and refer onto their steering alignment specialist. Sorry for the long story.

Upshot is it was just the tyres. Toyota rotated them back to where they were before and all is fine again. I spoke to the alignment specialist and he said only ever seen it a couple of times but seems to be the tyres - nothing wrong with my car.

My tyres are Hurcules (made in USA) 265/75 R16. Tyres have been fine up to this point - well back to their same spot and they are fine again.

Go figure???

David


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AnswerID: 377221   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 10:09

trainslux replied:

Hi GoneTrippo.

I had a very similar thing happen to me as well.

Had hercules terra trac ats, on the car for 30 000 kms no problems.

I put some mickey thompson ATZ 5 ribs on it, and they pulled very badly to the left.

Took them back to the place of purchase, and they tried to blame the wheel alignment.
They they swapped them side to side.
Still the same pull.

By this time they lost interest and blamed the car.

I would like to add that all the years I was a mechanic, I had come across issues of tyre pull before, but never this bad, and usually a swap side to side fixed it.

I took it up with the importers of the tyres, and they were very helpfull.

Anyone in SA, Cotton tyre services are excellent.
Their professional, and patient approach to find the problem, regardless of wheather it was the tyres, or my car.

We swapped the tyres on the rims, then staggered them lettering in and out on the front.
Still the same pull.

Thankfully I still had the original tyres, and we put them back on.

pull gone.

They then offered me some cooper ST's, so we tried those.
They follow the camber of the road more than the old ones, but no pull.

so yes you can get tyre pull, and its quite agressive, ie pulls the wheel out of your hand.

Thats what I found.
I would be wanting to try another type of tyre, as the pull is from those tyres, no doubt.

Cheers

Trains

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AnswerID: 377229   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 11:20

Member - Lotzi (QLD) replied:

Hi Troppo

Have you tried the Ford Forum, I get a fair bit of info regarding our Explorer from this site . .

www.fordforums.com.au

or google - wheel alignment f250, there seems to be a bit of info regarding this problem, there is even reports in this site in the archives as to this and other issues regarding the f250.

I think that with the higher profile tyres any alignment / camber and different tread patterns, issues are magnified.

What DougT was referring to, they are an original LHD designed vehicle, (doesn't matter where they are assembled), most heavy vehicles from LHD countries of origin have to have the beam axle bent or shimmed to allow for the camber on the left hand side of the road.

Good Luck and Cheers

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FollowupID: 644603   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 17:38

uwanabuyawot posted:

hi troppo , it sounds like what you have is called tyre bais , when the tyre is manufactured, the cords have slipped slightly and bunched up on one side , there is no fix for this tyre. return it place of purchace and they will have to do a warranty claim on it . i hope this helps, regaurds bruce
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AnswerID: 377311   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 21:16

BuggerBoggedAgain replied:

I was told it was a safety factor built into LHD vehicles so as if the driver falls asleep at wheel, the vehicle will move/stear to left of road.
I think this would apply to LHD vehicles, sedans, not so sure about 4WD
A common test was to get up to 60kph and let go of steering wheel and car will move left
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FollowupID: 644747   Submitted: Monday, Aug 03, 2009 at 14:50

Member - Timbo posted:

Are you sure? Reason I ask is: in a LHD vehicle, you'd normally be driving on the RHS of the road - if the car naturally moves left, it would have a natural tendency to move into the oncoming traffic - hardly what you'd expect if it's meant to be a 'safety factor'
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FollowupID: 644871   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 04, 2009 at 14:37

BuggerBoggedAgain posted:

ooooopppsss, that should be RHD on vehicle, sorry Timbo,driving on LHS road,
that makes better sense
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FollowupID: 644874   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 04, 2009 at 15:15

Member - Timbo posted:

Actually BoggedAgain, from reading other replies here, what you originally said does makes sense...

Roads are sloped down to the sides (high in the centre, lower at the edges) so that the water flows off the road in the rain rather than pooling in the middle. So... if you make a car to go straight on a flat road, it will always feel like it's pulling to the left because it just wants to go downhill (gravity) and steer towards all those trees and ditches etc. So you set up the car so it will naturally steer right a bit, this means when you drive it on a slopey road, it will steer straight rather than off into the ditch (ie. the tendency of the car to go right will counteract the tendency of the slope of the road to make the car steer left). So what happens when you drive that car on the other side of the road (where the slope is sloping down to the other side)?!

Since a LHD car will usually drive on the RHS of the road, it will normally steer 'downhill' towards the nearest trees & ditches (ie. RHS of the road) so you'll design it so it tends towards the LHS (centre of the road). If you take this same car (or same tyres) and drive it on the LHS of the road, the slope of the road will make the car tend to the left (down the slope) and this will be compounded by the car/tyres being designed to tend to the LHS (that is, to counteract a slope that pushes the car to the right) in other words, both the slope of the road, and the design of the car/tyres will be pushing the car left. Does all this make sense?!

But you'd expect this problem could be solved by just putting the white lettering inside (ie. turning the tyres the other way around on the rims)
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AnswerID: 377317   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 21:41

nowimnumberone replied:

if we fit tyres at work then the car pulls we usually swap fronts left to right if that dosnt work we spin the tyres on the rim so the tyre part that was inside is now out side not just spin the tyre around 180 deg that usually fixes the problem
cheers
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FollowupID: 644675   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 02, 2009 at 22:28

trainslux posted:

Thats what we did with mine, but it didnt fix the problem.

Yes there are different angles on the front end setup that favour driving on the rhs of the road, but I think the issue here is what has already been mentioned regarding the construction of the tyre is a bit amis, causing the pull.

Trains
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AnswerID: 377360   Submitted: Monday, Aug 03, 2009 at 09:57

DaveHarro53 replied:

I've had this happen with 2 vehicles in the past due to a faulty tyre - delamination due overheating in 1 case on a very hot day (47deg + & long hwy trip) and the other from corrugations and rocky outcrops causing "bruising" as the tyre shop guy called it, but it was effectively partial delaminations of the tyre.

The faulty tyres caused exessive drag & pull evident on the steering wheel by ~1/4 turn to stay straight in both cases (Falcon in the first case; 80 series Cruiser in the 2nd).

I would not be accepting the tyre which pulls or perhaps any of them due to probable manufacturing issues - faults or "ecxessive tolerances". Try another brand.

Its very unlikely (let's say impossible to imagine) that an alignment problem could be exactly balanced by uneven drag on old tyres with the result that the vehicle "tracks true". It HAS to be the new tyres.

Did you try swapping rears to front?
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AnswerID: 377363   Submitted: Monday, Aug 03, 2009 at 10:13

Wizard1 replied:

It might seem a little niave but I believe it has something to do with tyres made in or for the US market and the fact their bias is different due to the opposite road camber.

Had a set of Coopers on my Prado. Same thing, it would never steer straight always pulling to the left. No amout of wheel alignment therories fixed it despite help and advice from Cooper including some excessive adjustment they suggested to fix the alignment which caused damage to the offset bolt luggs

Put on a set of Goodyear Wrangler ATR, had the alignment put back to factory spec..perfect

Just put on a set of Pirelli Scorpion AT/R, had an alignment after fitting.......perfect.

I would never go near Coopers, BFG or Mickey Thompsons
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AnswerID: 377368   Submitted: Monday, Aug 03, 2009 at 11:40

John Davies replied:

Gidday Troppo,

Have a look in the tech bulletins on the toyo web site. They explain how to go about curing your problem. You would start buy getting the front right tyre rotated on the rim.

http://www.toyo.com.au/TechInfoPDFs/TTT-160%20Steer%20Pull%20and%20Corrective%20Action.pdf

Hope you get to bottom of it Chris,

Regards

John D - Defender 110 2.4
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FollowupID: 646029   Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 13:57

GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) posted:

Thanks John see my report below.

How is your 2.4 going? I don't visit the LROCV forum much these days.

Cheers
Chris
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AnswerID: 378653   Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 12, 2009 at 13:53

GoneTroppo Member (FNQ) replied:

Problem fixed!!!

After swapping tyres every which way, side to side, back to front, 2 spares to front we pretty much eliminated the tyres as the problem.

So that leaves the wheels which are an inch wider.

Truck Wheel alignment place in Cairns fitted a different castor kit now it tracks like an arrow.

I asked the bloke about it and he felt that changing to a one inch wider wheel should not have made a difference. (He fitted the original castor kit after I fitted the OME suspension)

Thanks everyone for your suggestions/assistance I'm once again a happy Ford driver.



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