Member - Teege (NSW) replied:

Snowy
Not sought any advice, but that was the very reason my son didn't bring his daughter on a recent club trip we invited him to. I hadn't thought about it, but it certainly concerned him. It couldn't possibly be any good for them.

teege

Member - Mark G Gulmarrad replied:

Snowy

gday mate, we have taken all our kids 4wding.we just roll a towel up and fold it around bubs head and neck......they usually sleep through the whole thing too.(use it as a type of packing is what i'm trying to say)
hope they enjoy the drive :-)))

Member - Troll 81 (QLD) replied:

Saw a proper baby neck support at big W over the weekend might be the go?

Sir Kev & Darkie replied:

We did a Vic High Country Trip when the youngest was 8 weeks old. Used additional head support around her head to stop it rolling around excessively.

She slept most of the time ...................... until it was time for a feed LOL which was great when you are hlaf way down a steep section :))

Cheers Kev

Member - Rod N (QLD) replied:

I have seen a type of neck brace similar to racing drivers etc for babies which is extra to the seat. This one type.

vk1dx replied:

Out two bobs worth.

Just this weekend we were discussing an upcoming family trip up to Cape Your. Our daughter in law said that she would not go until the baby was older. Too much jostling. They are very susceptible to damage especially from the neck up. She was most adamant about it.

I guess this is what we call common sense.

We applaud her choice and are not going until the baby is another year older. At least.

Sorry but we cannot agree with any young child being put at risk. Wait a year or two. What's the hurry. Do another less risky trip in the meantime. As we are.

Phil

ExplorOz - David & Michelle replied:

Hi Snowy, the thing is all babies develop at different rates. If you feel that your bub's neck is not strong enough yet, then avoid the tracks for another month or so. Is she a strong baby? Does she seem to have good head support at tummy time? ie. does she lift her head up, roll over yet etc? If not, then perhaps the 4WDing is too soon, but if she is showing neck strength when awake, then chances are the sleeping floppy neck is not going to do any harm. They all do it.

In our experience, our babies were strong enough at 8months for long 4WDing trips. Our eldest now almost 9yrs travelled the full length of the Gunbarrel including the Old Gunbarrel from West to East, up the Tanami, across the Gibb River Rd, up to Kaulumburu, out to Mitchell Falls, onto Broome, and thru the Kennedy Ranges/Murchison for her first major trip at 8mths old (we were away for 9 weeks). The following year she did the Anne Beadell Highway, double crossing the Simpson Desert (French Line one way, Rig Road the other), thru the Pit Lands, Great Central Rd, etc. At 2 1/2 she did the Canning Stock Route. The following year we went from WA to NSW, then Tassie, Vic, SA then back home - as did her 8mth old baby sister, who is now 5 yrs old. Neither of my kids have experienced any negative effects from 4WDing at a young age but everyone is different and if you have any doubts definately have a chat with a pediatrician.
Best of luck, Michelle (MM)

Member - Phil G (SA) replied:

Snowy,
This is a legitimate concern. The closest analogy I know of is that of "Shaken Baby Syndrome". Type that into Google and you'll come up with a heap of hits that explain why nobody should ever shake a baby. I quote one of those references:
..............................................................................................................
In shaken baby syndrome, the sudden and repeated vigorous shaking pitches the infant or child’s brain in different directions and causes parts of the brain to pull away, tearing brain cells and blood vessels. The force of shaking a child in anger and frustration is five to 10 times greater than if the child were to simply trip and fall (Jenny, et al., 1999). That force is repeated in succession as the child is being shaken.

Violent shaking is especially dangerous to infants and young children because their neck muscles are not fully developed and their brain tissue is exceptionally fragile. Their small size further adds to their risk of injury.

Often, the outward signs of injury to an infant or young child are not obvious, as the injuries occur on the inside, particularly in the head or behind the eyes. These injuries can include:

Brain swelling and damage
Subdural hemorrhage
Mental retardation or developmental delays
Blindness, hearing loss, paralysis, and speech and learning difficulties
Death
Shaken baby syndrome can have disastrous consequences for the family, the child and society. If the child survives, medical bills can be enormous. These children may require lifelong medical care for brain damage injuries such as mental retardation and cerebral palsy. The child may even require institutionalization or other types of long-term care.

...........................................................................................................

I expect that the forces delivered in the back of a 4wd would be less than what's required to cause this type of injury, but nobody can give you a definitive answer on this. Why take a risk on a 6 month old baby when the stakes are high?

Cheers
Phil

Atta Boy Luther replied:

I recall up to a certain age the capsule should face the other way, backwards . We had a capsule that pivoted from the base so that the capsule could lay slightly flatter when sleeping etc . This stopped neck roll a fair bit .

Member - Duncs replied:

I'll be honest here we never even thought about it. I commend those who have and do.

I was already into the 4wd lifestyle when my second child was born. As a shift worker I often had the care of our children while Mum was at work. My recreation was 4WD. I would take the kids on picnics in the bush often using pretty rough tracks to access my favorite spots. My oldest daughter was sitting up in a booster seat before any of this started and we had done a trip to the Vic High Country. When my son was only 5 months old we had a family holiday to Fraser. All this in a leaf sprung MQ Patrol, not as easy on passengers as the new breed of family 4wd. My youngest daughter was born into this lifestyle. We did not have any additional support for the babies heads it was just not something we or any of our friends, including a couple of nurses thought of.

Maybe we were lucky, but none of our kids appears to have suffered any damage. The youngest is now 16 and the oldest 21. My son who I think probably had more 4wd trips as a baby than the girls is tall and thin and has a very strong neck. Accademically all my kids are achieving above the national average.

My approach to off road driving has always been slow and steady but that doesn't necessarily mean a bump free ride.

So what am I saying? Well I am certainly not saying not to worry about these things. These issues need to be highlighted but they need to be looked at rationally. I am not aware of any children who have suffered any injury from the movement they are subject to on a 4wd trip. Not to say it can't or hasn't happened. But it is, I think a low risk. The consequence is high so it must be considered but let's not panic. .

I have a friend who is a chiropractor specializing in neo-natal and infant spinal care I will ask his opinion and post some information and advice.

Duncs

Members Paul and Melissa (VIC) replied:

We waited until our daughter was strong enough in the neck and the capsule/toddler seat was turned around before we took her out 4WDing,she was about 7 months old.since she has been all over the place and over some pretty rough stuff and now loves it.we still stuff a jacket or something under her head when she nods off when 4WDing so she doesnt really rock'n'roll all over the place and she is now nearly 3.

vk1dx replied:

There is a simple solution to all this.

Ask a paediatrician what he/she thinks.

Phil

Member - Ingo57 (NSW) replied:

G'day Snowy

We usually lie the chair back as far as possible, then with towels or jumpers etc and we brace there heads using the sides of the baby seat.


Both our kids have been bounced across the Simpson like this and various other trips and It wont be long until our recent 3rd child will cop the same treatment.

Your point of taking it easy and driving as smoothly and gently also applies.

mowing replied:

You would think that the capsule/infant seat manufacturers would have a "wings" that fold in from the side at head level similar to aircraft seats so that they can be adjusted as the infant/child gets older. Looking at the baby seat that we have for our grandson, there is a lot of room around head level with not a great deal of head support and this is an upmarket model.

Cheers

Mark

The Lobster replied:

Our son is 14 months now, so no problems anymore. But when he was little we would roll a flanelette wrap or a cloth nappy into a 'sausage' and place it it over his head from ear to ear. We avoided any 'rough' 4x4ing when he was little, but we used the sausage whenever we were in the car at all and it worked very to support his head.

Anyone can get on their high horse and decide not to do any 4x4ing while the baby is little, but at the end of the day any car trip has the potential to rattle them around. Imagine if you were involved in an accident.

So my opinion is, sure, avoid the 4x4ing if you wish, but that's really not the point. Support for your babies head is *always* important when in the car.

matt

Member - Old Girl (QLD) replied:

When our kids were very small I use to sit in the back and hold their heads gently against the seat. One time one of our other kids undid the seat belt that holds the baby car seat in and we didn't realise until going down a steep slippery hill. The baby seat was holding on by the safety belt. Pretty nervy when you just cant pull up.