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Engine temp warning gauges ?

Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 18:19

D200Dug

We are nearly ready to pick up our van YEA!!!

I am just wondering if people think a temperature warning gauge is a worthwhile idea ?

I have had a look at the http://www.enginewatchdog.com/tm2.html system.

Any other suggestions ?

Do we need one ?

How do I sell the idea to Margo and convince her I need to spend more money on the ute :-)
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Thread Summary
AnswerID: 408605   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 18:26

gopher replied:

www.enginesaver.com.au/Toyota_Nissan.htm

Have a look at this one
Reply 1 of 10
FollowupID: 678527   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 18:30

D200Dug posted:

I should have mentioned I would be fitting it to a holden Rodeo 2008 TD

I will ask if they make a kit or adaptors for that

Thanks
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 408607   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 18:46

Member - Roachie (SA) replied:

Call me paranoid if you like, but I have both the Engine Watchdog (temp alarm) as well as the Engine Saver Low Water Alarm.

In my opinion, both are equally necessary and perform different functions.

The temperature alarm will alert you if the engine temp gets above a pre-set level, which has nothing to do with low water levels. EG: You could have a severely blocked radiator from grass seeds or insects etc that is stopping the cooling process.

On the other hand, what would happen if your engine had a slow coolant leak over night while you're on an extended trip, camped in the outback? You start the engine in the morning as normal and the high temp alarm doesn't tell you anything about it being empty of coolant.....until (maybe) the engine gets too hot. This is where the Engine Saver Low Water Alarm comes into play. It will alert you IMMEDIATELY if there is no coolant on the high-mounted sensor. So, even if you've only lost a litre or so of coolant, that little sucker won't shut-up until you've investigated (and fixed) the low water issue.

I have the Low Water sensor in the top radiator hose and the high temp sensor bolted to the side of the block of my 6.5 Chev V8 diesel engine. I also have a VDO analogue coolant gauge which has it's sensor in the back of the left head (arguably the hottest part of the coolant cycle on this engine).

Roachie
Darling River run with Dave B
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"When you hit the tree between the headlights thats understeer. Oversteer is when you hit the tree between the Tail Lights" - Wayne Bell
Reply 2 of 10
FollowupID: 678531   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 18:51

Member - Roachie (SA) posted:

Sorry I missed a vital part of what I intended to say...... I will repeat the appropriate paragraph from above and add the extra bit in upper case to highlight the bit I missed.... (but I'm not shouting...hahahaha).

On the other hand, what would happen if your engine had a slow coolant leak over night while you're on an extended trip, camped in the outback? You start the engine in the morning as normal and the high temp alarm doesn't tell you anything about it being empty of coolant.....until (maybe) the engine gets too hot. This is where the Engine Saver Low Water Alarm comes into play. It will alert you IMMEDIATELY if there is no coolant on the high-mounted sensor. So, even if you've only lost a litre or so of coolant, that little sucker won't shut-up until you've investigated (and fixed) the low water issue.
THE OTHER SCENARIO THAT YOU NEED TO CONSIDER IS WHEN A SUDDEN HOSE BLOW OUT OCCURS AS YOU PUNT ALONG THE HIGHWAY. THE TEMP SENDER WON'T RESPOND IMMEDIATELY AS IT NEEDS TO HAVE COOLANT AROUND IT TO GIVE A READING.....IF THE TEMP SENSOR IS NOT COVERED BY COOLANT IT WON'T REGISTER THE INCREASE IN TEMP IN ALL LIKLIHOOD. ONCE AGAIN, THE LOW WATER ALARM WILL LET YOU KNOW WITHIN A SECOND OR 2 IF IT IS NOT COVERED BY COOLANT.

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FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 678536   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 19:12

Member - Allan B (QLD) posted:


Hi Roachie, No, I don't think that you are paranoid.

This subject has been argued on here before but I will re-state that BOTH high temperature AND low water level alarms are essential for off-road vehicles.

Frankly I can't be bothered going through it all again but anyway your "upper-case" scenario says it all. When you consider the consequences of dramatic coolant loss against the cost of protection you take a great risk if you do not invest a little in protection alarms.

Coongie Lakes
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Cheers, Allan

Coongie Lakes
FollowUp 2 of 2
AnswerID: 408608   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 18:47

Member - mazcan replied:

hid200dug
i have an engine watchdog and has proved reliable and worth the money
and as for margo just tell if ya break down
she walks ---- lol
happy travells
"QUEBBAMBIDDYBUMTAL" attempt to achieve the impossible immediately and a miracle a little later
Reply 3 of 10
FollowupID: 678533   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 19:01

D200Dug posted:

Sounds fair to me :-)
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 408609   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 18:56

Member - Barnesy replied:

I have an exhaust gas temperature guage (EGT) and it works well. Gives you a good idea of how hard the engine is working constantly, useful for towing.
Corrugated road to Mitchell Falls
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Reply 4 of 10
FollowupID: 678535   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 19:07

Member - Graham H (QLD) posted:

Yes but has nothing to do with coolant temps or levels.

I have a digital temp gauge at the front of the head (of the car) a low water gauge, an EGT in the Dump pipe and an Auto Trans temp gauge.

Also have tyre monitors with temp gauges as well.

So far have all angles covered and havent had a puncture on the trip of 50,000k Car hasnt used any oil between services and 1 litre of coolant over whole trip..

EVERY MORNING I check water and oil and all the tyres.


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FollowUp 1 of 9
FollowupID: 678551   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 20:25

Isuzumu posted:

The EGT will give you a warning as when you take you foot off the accelerator and the EGT does not drop then you have problems and it will also rise if the motor is over heating.
I do believe the low water alarm is a great idea, but I would be fittting an EGT first.

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Cheers Bruce
VKE 237 Mobile 1955 (Selcall 1955)
FollowUp 2 of 9
FollowupID: 678553   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 20:38

Member - Graham H (QLD) posted:

Well when i was at Mt Compass south of Adelaide I took particular notice of

temps on the Willunga hill which is quite a long steepish hill.

With the van 2850kg ,the EGT temp went up to 500deg by just over halfway up so I dropped from 4th to 3rd and lifted my foot a bit.

Dropped a little to 475.

THE ENGINE temp had gone up 8 deg only from 80 to 88 deg

The transmission temp which was at 70 at the bottom went up to just over 90 deg

When I got over the top the EGT dropped fairly quickly but it took longer for the engine temp to drop as I was going a bit slow I guess.

The auto took even longer to drop back to 70 again.

This is exactly correct so proves that water temp and exhaust temp dont go up equally.
Nor do they come down the same.

I would be most surprised if the EGT did not drop when you lift your foot as

there will be less gas and less heat, even as in my case when the motor was

still above normal temp.

Just my careful observations.





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FollowUp 3 of 9
FollowupID: 678565   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 23:17

Member - Redbakk (WA) posted:

Hello everyone....I have a low water alarm as well BUT by far the best bit of gear for towing would have to be my EGT gauge......for the same reasons as expressed above I would not tow without one....I drive to temperatures and this is particularly so before you stop the engine too soon....I wait till the temp drops to about 140 degrees C ......My van weighs in around 2.5 ton

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FollowUp 4 of 9
FollowupID: 678582   Submitted: Saturday, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:01

Member - Rod N (QLD) posted:

What EGT gauge is recommended and where did you get it?
FollowUp 5 of 9
FollowupID: 678586   Submitted: Saturday, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:53

Isuzumu posted:

http://www.thermoguard.com.au/ Ian is a member and very helpfull

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Cheers Bruce
VKE 237 Mobile 1955 (Selcall 1955)
FollowUp 6 of 9
FollowupID: 678624   Submitted: Saturday, Mar 13, 2010 at 15:57

Member - Barnesy posted:

I fitted a VDO guage as I wanted a dial screen. To be honest I can't remember where I got it from but it was easy to fit, just drilled a hole in the extractors and fitted the special hose clamp around the pipe. Simple knowledge of how to solder is all that's needed to hook up the electronics.

Barnesy
Corrugated road to Mitchell Falls
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FollowUp 7 of 9
FollowupID: 678625   Submitted: Saturday, Mar 13, 2010 at 16:26

Member - Graham H (QLD) posted:

Autometer Gauges are also dial and come in metric and Fahrenheit


Hope you didnt cut and solder the wire from the sensor to the gauge as Autometer tell us DONT ALTER THE WIRE IN ANY WAY.

To Rod N have a look here www.atlanticspeed.com

MY gauge and kit cost $191 inc $41 postage.

Quote here was at least $275+

He is good to deal with.

Just make sure you get a short sweep electric METRIC and a black face is better as my white ones reflect in the screen at night.

Look in my profile for how I mounted them


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FollowUp 8 of 9
FollowupID: 678696   Submitted: Sunday, Mar 14, 2010 at 09:29

Member - Johny boy (NSW) posted:

Hi all,
all the diesle mechs told me that a EGT gauge is a must when towing and if I had some spare cash to buy a boost gauge as well I think the two VDO gauges cost me just a bit under $400, but it is a great peace of mind to have ,I drive to the gauge all the time now and as one mech said ..if you see the gauge moving on the dash temp gauge it MUST be getting hot as they are not as sensitive/accurate as the VDOs are ??

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Regards John
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AnswerID: 408612   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 19:25

Member - Allan B (QLD) replied:


D200Dug, When it comes to monitoring engine temperature a gauge is useful but an alarm, both audible and visual, is essential.

Engine temperature can soar to a destructive level within seconds if you suffer sudden loss of water due to such as a ruptured hose but you will probably not notice the engine temperature gauge rise as you are concentrating on the road.

A load audible alarm of both temperature and water level will warn you instantly and so avert catastrophic damage.

Coongie Lakes
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Cheers, Allan

Coongie Lakes
Reply 5 of 10
AnswerID: 408616   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 19:49

OzTroopy replied:

I've got one of those engine watchdogs.

Modified it so its got two sensors.

One is permanently attached to the gearbox as an indicator of temps there ... and I swap the other one around to diffs/engineblock/transfer case etc.

The temp alarm is set for the gearbox but with a flick of a switch I can do a quick check on the item Im interested at the time.

Seems to be a good bit of kit ... but doesnt replace service/maintenance.

As the others have said ... the two brands are for two different purposes ... and both are useful extras.
Reply 6 of 10
AnswerID: 408619   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 20:16

Member - Graham H (QLD) replied:

Not havving a shot at Anyone but a good driver checks his important gauges constantly.

I do after having it drummed into me when bus driving.

Gauges ,mirrors gauges mirrors.

Pays off.


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Reply 7 of 10
FollowupID: 678554   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 20:56

Hairs & Fysh (NSW) posted:

Agree with ya Graham 100%.
Awhile ago I had a conversation with a chap about this, his point was not to trust factory gauges. As much as I know that they are not accurate. If you watch them ALL THE TIME you get a feel for how things are running, so to speak.
Eg; I don't have the cd player at full tilt, I listen to the sound of the vehicle, I watch all the FACTORY gauges all the time, even the smell of the vehicle is an indication of how it is running. look in the all the mirrors regular.
My late father once told me that you drive by the seat of your pants. You feel how your car is travelling by how it feels under you.
I hate these new vehicles because you are shielded from this. They are so quiet and smooth.
Hmm. I guess this subject has become the same as which tyre to use or which 2 way fridge to use. It's staring to do my head in



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FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 678566   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 23:47

Member - Allan B (QLD) posted:


Yes Graham, I too keep a close watch on my instrumentation, always have. But there can be times when road conditions demand your attention for longer periods than it can take for damage to occur. And gauges do not always give the true picture.

Some years ago in a Subaru I smelled hot oil. Looked at the temp gauge, it was reading right on normal. Must be a car in front I mused. Stopped soon after at a shop and heard my engine "crackling" it was so hot. A heater hose had failed. But because the temperature sender was in a water space and there was no water it was reading the radiation heat from the over-hot engine which equated to "normal" on the dash gauge. Result?...... one totally wrecked engine!

I learned the lesson and fitted an independent head temperature audible alarm to the replacement engine.

Industrial plants such as refineries have myriad instruments and gauges with operators supervising them but they also rely greatly on alarm systems to supervise critical components.

Coongie Lakes
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Cheers, Allan

Coongie Lakes
FollowUp 2 of 2
AnswerID: 408626   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 20:55

Ozhumvee replied:

Having nearly cooked an engine at 23k from new when the drain plug fell out of the radiator on a very rough/corrugated dirt road where you tend to watch the road rather than the gauges. The Toyota temp gauge was reading normal and then dropped to the cool side as the coolant departed as I glanced at it, I pulled up immediately and shut the engine down, the paint on the head of the 2H diesel was bubbling as it was so hot, wouldn't turn over on the starter after it was stopped and it was only an hour or so later after replacing the plug, refilling with hot water that it reluctantly turned over and started to run roughly. Ever since I have fitted low water alarms to every vehicle I've owned and a few years ago fitted the temp alarm as well, both necessary on off road vehicles IMHO.l
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Peter
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Reply 8 of 10
AnswerID: 408628   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 21:39

Member - Josh (TAS) replied:

Would have saved me over $8000 on a rebuild if I had fitted one a while back. Cheap insurance.

Josh
Arthur river Tasmania
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Reply 9 of 10
FollowupID: 678558   Submitted: Friday, Mar 12, 2010 at 22:31

D200Dug posted:

A good enough reason in itself !

I will organize one ASAP
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 408651   Submitted: Saturday, Mar 13, 2010 at 12:53

Harrow replied:

Neither help for annother scenario wher you lose the fanbelt

But its not such a big deal, the radiator header tank going off like grenade, gives you a hint that maybe you should pull over and take look

No low water (alarm dosnt work as its still covered with water and pressurised)
Temp dosnt rise quickly at the sensor as the water pump isnt working

Water jacket boils quickly with out water circuilation overpressurises the system (faster than the rad cap can cope with)
Plastic header tank lets go better than any alarm gets your attention real quick.

estimate 30 sec from when fanbelt stipped comlaining (failure) to detonation

Was in a sutuation where I had to keep on the loud pedal.

Dam 100 series fanbelt always having to adjust due to high alternator loads, charging depleted Aux AGM batteries (high charge / current acceptance)

But Agree low water and high temp ( correctly positioned)

Harrow
Reply 10 of 10
FollowupID: 678596   Submitted: Saturday, Mar 13, 2010 at 13:25

Member - Allan B (QLD) posted:


Harrow, I agree that the temperature will not be detected quickly if the sensor is in the water circuit external to the engine if the water pump is not working.
That is why a high-temperature alarm sensor needs to be attached to the head/block close to the cylinders. A warning will then be raised before catastrophic damage occurs to the engine.

I cannot understand why the vehicle manufacturers have not addressed this need. The spend lots on fancy engine management systems but not on engine protection.

Coongie Lakes
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Cheers, Allan

Coongie Lakes
FollowUp 1 of 2
FollowupID: 678626   Submitted: Saturday, Mar 13, 2010 at 16:32

Member - Graham H (QLD) posted:

The reason is They cost more.

A good example was the Ford Pinto in the 70-80's Ford decided they could save $2 a car by leaving out two strengthening struts from the front to the back of the rear mounted fuel tank.

Very good, they made about say 5,000,000 cars and saved $10,000,000

Then several got shunted up the rear and it cost Ford hundreds of million $ in compensation claims.

Very short sighted but thats the attitude build to a price to match competitors.



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