3 way fridge

Thanks for the info, i didnt think they would draw that much power, i suppose they are actually a very inefficient way of cooling, but serve the purpose when electricity is not available.we will see how it goes before we change it.

Hi Brenton
In answer to your question.
The big problem with any fridge in a camper trailer ,while travelling is the heat build up under the covers due to lack of fresh air circulation
While a compressor fridge will be more tolerant ,it will also suffer severely in hot weather.,
It too needs adequate air circulation.
The heat under the covers can get very high & could reach a point where the electronics of a compressor fridge could be permanently damaged.
I would not be very keen to run a 3way under covers on any power source
There really is no safe, simple solution with that set up when travelling.
The best you can do is get the fridge as cold as possible prior to travelling,well filled so you have reserve cold stored,even frozen bottles of water if you have the space
As well insulated as possible from the heat
When stationary @ camp, then the other points for best performance of 3ways become very relevant
Your problems are not the same as in vans etc & are not easily solved.

On forums too many people make all embracing statements which may not cover the actual OP's situation
THAST IS WHY IT IS ESSENTIAL YOU
"""SORT THE WHEAT FROM THE CHAFF """

Peter

Hi Brenton
As it seems you do not intend to rush in a pull your 3way out may I suggest
you do a few things that should improve it's operation.

First & very important CHECK THE VOLTAGE @12v the fridge terminals WITH THE FRIDGE OPERATING & engine @ fast idle
IF the voltage is not @ least 12v you have undersized cables [VERY COMMON"]
2ndconsider fitting a couple of small 12v fans [computer fans] or bigger depending on space,behind the fridge to improve cooling of the condenser
If possible fit baffles from side of trailer to the edge of the condenser fins to force ALL cooling air through the condenser fins
The fans can be fed from the 12v input terminals via a simple switch or
a thermostat [Jaycar part #ST3831]fixed to top of condensor fins about midway from boiler
You will be suprised ,I am sure, with the improvement in ALL modes of operation

Peter

Hi Rob

Thanks for your input, much appreciated, as i already have the solar panel and a good charger and gen set i may go down the path of an engel, if the dometic gives us trouble but i will see how it goes, we are heading into victoria with the camper end of next week, will put the small waeco in the back of the prado for the beers.

"I have seen figures of 5.6A for the equivalent Waeco as well as read of reliability problems." more uninformed diatribe posted on a public forum.

The Engel upright have never been reliable and uses heaps of power compared to the Waeco CR fridge. The Engel has terrible insulation with an undersized compressor and a fan that packs up. The Waeco is Tropical rated, has heaps of insulation, double locking door and is a substantially superior product in every way to the Engel.

I destroyed the 90l 3way in my van (ran it on gas whilst on a slope) and like Rob replaced it with the Engel sr90 unit.
It neatly fitted exactly wher the 3way had been.

This was 2 yrs. ago, and the improvement in refrigeration over the 3way is many fold.
Constant 4* cabinet temp without moisture, rapid temp. pulldown on replaced contents (like beer!!!).

We dont have solar, and our fridge setup is the new Engel in the van and a 60l Trailblaza (on freeze) in the back of the truck.
A honda eu10 powering a 30a. 3 stage charger run 1.5hrs. morning, 2.5-3.5hrs. evening (when long term camped) maintains the 3 batteries.

I dont know where Paul derives his information about the Engel upright, but he is well off the mark.
It HAS a 2yr. warranty. It IS Tropical rated, which means it has insulation to meet that criteria. It DOES have a max. current draw of 2.5a.

According to many reports and observations, its pretty difficult to incorporate Waeco and reliability in the one sentence.
mike

The Engel fridge is NOT Tropical rated. The Engel is SN rated. Check out the factory website.
2.5Ah means nothing, it is the total Ah or amps used in 24 hours.
The Danfoss compressor is substantially more reliable than the Engel compressor. Waeco have the lions share of the portable refrigeration market and probably 70%+ of the upright refrigeration market. You will find very few Engel upright fridges fitted because of their known high power consumption, poor insulation and fan failures. If the fan fails and you don't realise it the compressor goes cya.

Paul.
For your information, the fan you refer to is thermostat controlled. Something I discovered when I noticed it did not run when the compressor started, but cut in later.
Reading the installation sheet cleared that up.
Where is your anecdotal evidence to support these alleged failures?

If you can tell me that the wording on the small label inside the cabinet which reads (amongst several other things) "climate class T" means other than it is Tropical rated I humbly apologise to you.
Otherwise....
mike

The T is for the ELECTRICS ONLY not the fridge. Thetford is the same as they try and pass off the T for Tropical for cabinet temperature. In Engel and Thetford the T is for tropicalised electrics ONLY nothing to do with the refrigeration or cabinet insulation.
Everybody knows the fan is thermostatically controlled. If you were associated with the repair business you would know well about the Engel failures. Why do you think they are not popular in use.

Hi Paul
A very strange statement when you look @ thenumber who reprt problems on forums relative to Engel & Waeco especially since Engels have been around for over 40years & many are still going strong.
I have one that is 44years old, spent it's whole life in 4wds never a thing done to it
Another about 30years old ,ditto no problems.
& know off others similar .
Perhaps you should produce some evidence to back your remarks

Peter

Paulnsw.
I was going to respond, but honestly after your last statement "climate class T" refers to electricals only, why would a bloke bother.

You obviously carry a load of embitterdness toward Engel (and Thetford)products.
I also have a 35yr+ old one which has never failed.

As myself and another asked, why not produce some evidence of your allegations.
I must remind myself to steer away from your comments in future.

Peter referring to the Engel cabinet fridges not the chest fridges.

Mike why would you bother, ignorance to the truth is bliss and if you don't want to hear the facts then so be it. I realise your mind is made up so why bore yourself with the facts. I told you what the T stands for and if you dont believe that well so be it. Those that cannot see the forest for the trees cannot be helped. I have no axe to grind with anybody. Dont want what the T sticker stands for people to believe it has to do with cabinet and insulation and what the T actually means is TROPICALISED ELECTRICS. Contact Engel and Thetford and ask them and if they tell you differently they are telling big commercial furpheys.

I have been away for a few days and did not realise that I would start world war 3 by my comments.

My "uninformed diatribe" was the result of a couple of days searching the Internet. I was totally unbiassed when I stated as I already own a Waeco and an Engel.

In my search I came across a number of instances of people unhappy with the high power consumption of the Waeco and also those who had complete failures of the Waeco, one on a Canning Stock Route trip.

I forgot to mention the RF interference problem with the Waeco which does not happen with the Engel. Do a search on "Waeco RF interference" and you will find it for yourself.

I hope i can run it on gas as the idea of it appeals to me put have heard of so many hassles with them on hot days iam not sure they are worth the trouble.

It'll run better on gas than the other two methods. Only while you're stationery of course. Cheers.

Roger B.....

Brenton

Listen to the guys above - GAS - if you have it.

Extremely efficient compared to AC and 12V, which you only use to hold it cold whilst travelling.

When station level the vehicle being towed and switch on the gas.

I use 9kg bottles on the van and run the water heater, fridge and stove on gas for weeks, and it all works soooooooooooo good.

DD

Make sure that the fridge is surrounded by home insulation, and you have a fan and you will have no problems. I make ice with mine on gas.

Hi
Dick said"There are also many ultimate owners who have removed them so that tells you SOMETHING ""

Yes It DOES , that they were not installed correctly!!
As with most which do not perform!!

Compressor fridges are good

IF you have plenty of battery amp hrs
" "' ample solar panels
If you do not mind loosing every thing in the fridge if you run out of 12v power.
You are happy to park in the sun, or juggle portable panels around & finding somewhere to safely store them when travelling & risk theft when away from camp
THINK very carefully on your style of camping , & weigh up ALL the pros & cons BEFORE YOU PULL out the 3way
$50 dollars worth of extra insulation , better venting & a couple of small 12v fans can fix nearly ALL the worst installations .

Peter

Egg Zackery Peter. Mine was lousy till I insulated it and beefed up the 12V wiring. Now it is great.

Hi Phil
None of that wil help if they are not installed correctly!!

Peter

Paul, this is wrong.

I always get 2 degrees and often freezing in a 3 wat 23xx fridge ON 12v. It has to be done properly.

Yet another miracle fridge story that is impossible when the manufacturer tells you you cannot.
2C is perfectly achievable in the cabinet when the ambient temperatures are low like 18/21C. When you get towards 28C it is impossible to get 2C in the cabinet and maintain it regardless of what you do if using the fridge normally. Once you get to 32C+ cabinet temperatures are getting up in the region of 9C.

paul, you can't justify your ignorance just by making stuff up.

Why just leave it that you don't know what you are talking about. That is a fact.

Bookbook it ain't no ignorance it is fact. The Dometic fridge is SN rated and can only perform to what Dometic stipulate. Go and ask on any caravan forum where they will tell you what a failure and how bad the Dometic RM23xx, 44xx and 73xx are once you pass 28C. Unfortunately there are no miracle fridges and that includes yours. Obviously you have never used your POS above 32C. It is impossible to maintain Australian Food Storage Standards in the POS you have above 28C and use the fridge as you would expect to opening and closing and putting in some warm food. I don't have to make anything up at all, only state the real facts. You always get somebody that stands up on public forums and swears blind theirs does this or that because they don't want to admit to owning a POS product.

Hi Boobook

I'll 2nd THAT
I wonder if paul has any actual experience with improving the 3ways performance
It can work out a lot more reliable ,cheaper,& no worry about:-
generators ,fuel ,maintenance, breakdowns, where you can use them, etc.

solar panels,portable which have to be stored when travelling ,stolen when away from camp, or if fixed having to park in the sun.

Although I do not expect many to say so I wonder how many who have changed from 3ways now wish they had not.
Unless of course they heavily use powered sites!!

I have both Engel & 3way in my motor home, I have 200watts of solar , 200amphrs of battery

i have carried out improvements to the 3way installation total cost under $50
It now works & maintains under 3C in the fridge section in ambient up to 36C so far .
IT's all a question of getting the condenser cooled,improving insulation to reduce heat to the interior,etc.

I would not go anywhere of the beaten track without my 3way!!
Peter

Hi Paul
It seems you have ,claim, some experience with fridges
DOES that extend to 3ways,??/
If so you should be able to answer this simple question:-
What problems with the operation of a 3way does high temperature cause
,apart from insulation losses??

Peter

Hi Paul
I see you have not answered the above yet
Is that because you have no actual experience with a decently installed 3way?

Or are all your statements only coming from perhaps your experience with one of your own & what you have read ?
IF you kept an open mind & read all this is you will see that many many happy people have reinstalled their fridges correctly & are very happy with the Them .
A few have even been happy with the original installation because it was done correctly
OR DO YOU SAY THEY ARE JUST TELLING PORKIES, is so for what reason??
It IS a widely accepted FACT that very few fridges are installed to makers specs!!
Peter

Paul, now you know so much, you know where I have been and how my fridge performs even though you have never met me and have shown that you know little about the subject matter.

Keep posting mate. You are a such a wit.

Correct installation of a 3 way is very important, but adding extra insulation and fans will not improve the rated performance of an SN or ST or T fridge past what the specification is. You cannot create more cold out of a fridge that is not capable. If you could then the manufacturer would rate all fridges as T Tropical rated to 43C. The SN regardless of what you do start dropping their load at 28C the ST at 32C and the T at 36C.
You can add as many bats to the sides as many fans top and bottom or inside and you are stuck with with the manufacturers rating.
The only T rated fridge are the RM24xx, RM25xx and RM46xx and the rest are next to useless POS in the 5 months of summer. They make a good cool box for veg and the freezer generally will stay frozen for short term storage only.

Hi Paul
I cannot put it any other way than you are talking CRAP!!
In fact the crap gets sillier every time you add a post

I do not know what your qualifications are but I noticed ,You have not replied to my question :-

""What problems with the operation of a 3way does high temperature cause,
,apart from insulation losses??


There is an answer do YOU know what it IS??
And A further question how can problems be minimized""

IT IS A CASE OF PUT UP OR SHUT UP

Peter

Peter everybody knows except you that temperatures above the manufacturers rating of the fridge will cause the fridge to stop working.
If you cannot understand this "The SN regardless of what you do start dropping their load at 28C the ST at 32C and the T at 36C." there is no help for you.
Peter the only crap here is your ignorance. Ignorant protagonists cannot be helped.

RE paulnsw posted:
Peter everybody knows except you that temperatures above the manufacturers rating of the fridge will cause the fridge to stop working.
If you cannot understand this "The SN regardless of what you do start dropping their load at 28C the ST at 32C and the T at 36C." there is no help for you.
Peter the only crap here is your ignorance. Ignorant protagonists cannot be helped."



HI Paul
It is obvious from your reply that you do not understand the basic operation of a 3way fridge ,Or what are limiting factors as far as operation goes.
CAN YOU you answer the questions i asked or not??

I & others are talking about practical experience & actual use!!
We are not imagining the results obtained.
just so you UNDERSTAND , NO ONE is claiming a 3way is more efficient,or can cool as fast as a compressor fridge.

IF you have the power source available that is, mains power, or lots of solar , batteries , generator etc then go for a compressor fridge
As I said I have both!!!
What is being argued is your totally incorrect comments re 3ways & their ability.
IT seems your limit of knowledge on 3ways is what you have read , NO PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE

Peter

OPEN you mind up a bit, get rid of these preconceived ideas ,
YOU JUST MAY LEARN SOMETHING!!

Paul, since you seem to know so much about me and where I have been, you may recall that the hottest places I had my camper and fridge after I reinstalled it, were Kurumba where it was regularly over 37 and the inside of the fridge was about 4, and in Victoria in 2009 when it was 47 where the fridge was about 8 degrees ( yes too hot but better than your unbelievable post above that food is unsafe at 28degrees ambient). I KNOW what I have experienced, and YOU DON'T, regardless of what diatribe you pretend to know about.

Honestly you certainly appear to suffer from a classic bad case of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You should do a little more research before jumping to conclusions, posting false statements and worst, rudely telling people they are wrong when you have no idea. Your credibility is about zero on this subject. You take the standards that you obviously don't understand that build an argument around a context that they don't relate to.

Honestly mate you have obviously never had any experience on this other than internet forum research, and it clearly shows. Stick to what you know about, so readers are not mislead.

It is pointless discussing it with you further because you show a complete disregard for facts and opinions other than your misinformed ones. You should be ignored by those seeking assistance on this subject.

Hi Boobook

Naaah you don't know what you are talking about, according to Paul!!

I believe even a compressor fridge would have a job ahead of it @ 47C certainly would be running continuously

Look @ the problems some have with them not performing in totally enclosed canopies .

Peter

Hi Brenton
In case you miss it go back to follow up#2 of2 in your OP

Peter