Mark from Getaway Portable Refrigerator Hire replied:

Hello Jimmy, I guess the first question is ....If you get stuck what are you going to use as an attachment point on the vehicle both front and back?
If it is the tie downs for shipping, or tow ball -forget it as these are Not suitable under any conditions.
Not sure what you mean by nylon tape... Do you mean tree protector?

The other thing to consider is joining a club....If you get the vehicle attachments sorted, get the snatch strap, shackles and a compressor and you will be in business. You will always have someone with you so won't need the winch and most have driver training events.

Cheers

Mark
Getaway Portable Refrigerator Hire

Dave from Fraser Coast 4WD Club replied:

It's been sorta mentioned above, your car has a mass of 1.6 tonne, but weighs that x force of friction (gravity plus mud, incline) etc.

2 tonne is simply not enough. The Force generated by a snatch is something that you have to see to believe, and if you see one go bad, you don't want to be anywhere near it.

To be honest, if you pulled out seat belt webbing while I was about to help you out of a bog, I'd get back in my truck and drive away, I value my life too much.

If you were to use climbing tapes or spectra slings that might be a different story.

You are doing the right thing by enroling in a course, and asking questions, but I'm afraid that there is no cheap and safe alternative to buying the real stuff when it comes to recovery of many tonnes of vehicle. A high lift jack can be used as a very effective winch, and would be much more suitable than those ratchet winches, (I have had one bend and come apart while tensioning ropes).

Mark from Getaway Portable Refrigerator Hire replied:

Hi Jimmy, As Voxon has said, the trouble with the tie downs or tow points are that the latter is designed to be pulled with a piece of rope with no elastic qualities. The car has no force holding it. With a Snatch Strap you have one big elastic band that is designed to stretch and the force of the stretch pulls the stuck vehicle out. The pressure is therefore much greater, bit like a bow and arrow. If the attachment point is not strong enough then it may let go. This will either result in that tow hook going through the front windscreen or back windscreen of the vehicle towing you and it will be like a bullet. Not good. I would go around to ARB or other reputable 4WD outlet and get them to advise of a suitable place for a tow hook that can be attached to the chasis with high tension bolts. If you have a hayman reece tow bar you can use this as the rear tow point via the pin part.
As far as the nylon tape goes, I would just buy a tree protector.
I would still go the Club way as it will give you piece of mind knowing that you have assistance on hand.
Hope this helps.......

Regards

Mark
Getaway Portable Refrigerator Hire

maverick replied:

Which state of this wide land are you in? If in WA give the WA4WDA website a look and get info on club contacts - they will be only too happy to assist. If not in WA - just imagine how nice it would be to be here. rgds

GaryInOz (Vic) replied:

There is no chassis, or stong enough points, on an X-Trail and other car based All Wheel Drives (RAV4, CRV Tribute/Escape, etc.) for any sort of safe recovery point. Car based monocoque bodies are not designed to withstand the "recovery" loads and will distort if subject to loads such as winching and snatching out of difficult situations, and failure of any point used in the recovery will cause damage to the vehicle doing the recovery/bystanders from flying debris.

Keeping in mind your already severely compromised underbody clearance and wheel articulation, and poor underbody protection, I would say that if you need to use any of the recovery equipment you have bought, you probably shouldn't be where you are, because you will be relying on other people risking their vehicles trying to recover you. Stick to graded dirt roads, and if you want to go 4WDing (even "light 4WDing") then do everyone a favour and purchase a vehicle that is fit for the purpose. You can easily find yourself in a situation where no return up the track you have gone down in the event of an emergency is possible (vehicle not capable), or sudden track condition changes occur (rain, snow, fire) putting yourselves in danger.

Equipment = weight on IFS/IRS = lower ground clearance + no low ratio = STUCK!

All the equipment in the world wont help IF IT CANNOT BE SAFELY AND SECURELY ATTATCHED TO YOUR VEHICLE!!!!!!!!!!!

Jimmy replied:

Hey Jimmy, Your X-trail will be fine for most beach driving as long as you let your tyre pressure down, (about 20 psi should do but you can go lower 12 psi is unreal but you can roll the tyre off the rim below that,) and will out do much heavier vehicles. I have driven a patrol on the beach and would rather have my Terrano anyday. The only problems you are likely to have are on tracks with deepish ruts where the ground clearance of the X-trail just aint enough. Look to spend around $100 for a compressor from Supercheap or Autobarn every now and then they come up on special. I picked one up from autobarn for $100 that normally sells for about $160 don't get sucked in and buy a real cheapy its really not worth it.
If you really are only going to do "lightweight" four wheel driving, you only really need a shovel, jack, shackles and a snatch strap or two. I wouldn't bother with winch unless you are going somewhere remote and on your own. Most drivers will be more than willing to lend a hand provided you have the basics and know how to use them, (I know I am anyway) make sure you have a rated recovery point at the front and rear otherwise no-one will snatch you. I remove the tow ball and use that to snatch with. I once watched a guy pull a tree stumo with a snatch strap, lucky for him he turned the vihicle slightly just as the stump let go, because it went flying past the car at head height and finished up 20 metres past the car! It took two blokes to lift the thing. I hate to think what damage a flying shackle could do.

Do your 4wd course and enjoy your x-trail You will soon find its limits

Savvas replied:

Jimmy,

You will find out a lot of this info first hand at the course. You will also find out what the X-Trails limits are too. Once you are armed with this knowledge, then you will be set to enjoy what the vehicle can offer you.

My advice is to wait until you have completed the course. You will then know what else you need to buy. I reckon you will not need the winch.

I'd also suggest you get your hands on Vic Widman's 4WD Driving Skills book. It is an excellent reference and I think it's available from Exploroz.

Cheers mate and enjoy the X-Trail,
Savvas

JimmyJames replied:

Thanks to all who replied. I now have a little more knowledge to go on with, will be checking out the local 4wd shop for some rated recovery points (at the least I'll be carrying rope / sandbags to impede any snatch strap that might disconnect in use) and am looking forward to the course I'm booked into.

GaryInOz, I should take the high road and ignore you but I won't. My original post stated I would be looking at light driving. I, and it appears several others consider my vehicle up to that level. If you had any doubts about what I meant by light 4WDing maybe you should have asked before you sounded off.

People like you are responsible for some of the bad press the 4wd community gets. Apparently you've got better gear and more knowledge and that gives you the right to demean others in an open forum. Most people I've known who 'won't suffer fools lightly' also happen to be close minded opinionated rednecks. Your comments have not changed my mind.

Member Colin - NSW Bungendore replied:

Jimmy
Don't be put off by all the 'big guys' negative comments.
Get out there and have a go - you are doing all the right things - ask questions and getting some training.
The big advantage small/light 4WDS have is that they are 'small and light' and under the 'light 4WDing' that you wish to experience the Xtrail should be fine. The car should also perform well in slippery and sandy conditions.
I carry a snatch strap and shackles but they haven't been used at all.

I didn't see what area you are from ? - on the East coast there are 'Subaru' Clubs which cater for other makes.

Good luck.Subaru Forester
"size isn't everything"

Member - Rohan K replied:

Ah. Jimmy James. I was going to let this post slide, but changed my mind. My advice (coming from experience with hard-core 4x4s, soft-roaders and now something in-between), is to take Savvas's advice and Cobra's suggestions (to which I would add a hydraulic jack and plate or an exhaust jack).

However, don't be too harsh on Gary. He may have come on a bit strong but his advice was also well intentioned and was clearly designed to impress upon you the significance of your vehicle's most prominent short-coming, and what your priority should be.

Whilst the jack, shovel, saw and axe may be the pieces of equipment you use most often, they do not require rated recovery points. Your shackles and snatch strap do. Sort that problem out and you'll be able to enjoy your brand of 4Wheeling with confidence.

BTW, if you do get it sorted, post the solution on as many 4x4 forums as you can because there will be many an X-Trail owner out there looking for an answer to that one.Smile, you're on ExplorOz
Rohan (Sydney - on the QLD side of the Harbour Bridge)

Member - Mal (Brisbane) replied:

JJ,
In many instances you don't need to be "snatched" out, rather towed out. To do this you can use your snatch strap without any initial slack in it and towed slowly or use a rated chain or cable wthout slack and towed slowly. I did this recently at the barge landing on Morton Island when the guy forgot to engage 4WD. I would not have exceeded 3kph and towed him less than a metre, but i got him out. I was attatched to his nudge bar.
Come on guys, have a go!!

Mal T.

JimmyJames replied:

Hi all. Just some more info to add after a trip to the local 4wd acc. place.

Stronger recovery fittings can be fitted to the x trail. The catch is that they bolt into the same spot on the body that the tie downs do. Their opinion was that, under load whatever fitting I have will rip out of the body long before the fitting itself or the bolts break.

Suggested soloution was to spread the revovery load over two points on the car, ie: tie off to the toe bar, have a bull bar fitted (to replace nudge bar) or use an equalizer strap to attatch to the front two tie down points. What do people think of this?

Also, if anyone is interested in a dedicated x trail group I've come accross one from one of the other forums here. It's pretty good and provides some good dedicated discussion about the vehicle.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Australian_X-trail

barryG replied:

Unfortunate that Gary has come in and stuffed up a good thread here with lines like "Go and get decent recovery points added, although its impossible to do" to paraphrase. Thanks Gary, good work.

The x-trail will very rarely end up as bogged as hard-core 4x4's simply because it wont get into those types of terain to start with, and is a lot lighter vehicle.
A stuck x-trail will tend to only need a small amount of assistance over and above what its own drive train is supplying.

So the existing recovery points can be used in 99% of all bogged situations.
In fact, a good old fashioned tow rope (no elastic) will do the trick, for which the front tow point, and rear tow bar will its force handle fine.

If a snatch strap is all thats available, then do as has been previously mentioned and do a slow tow, rather than a snatch, or connect a suplimentary rope from the recovery point to some other anchor in the unlikely even of the recovery point failing, the rope will catch the snatch snap before it does any damage.

Far better in either case for the recovery point or tow bar to fail with no damage to either vehicle than bend the chassis or send a missle toward the puller.