Electricity for Camping

Wednesday, Jan 21, 2009 at 20:49

Member - John and Val

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Revised March 2013.


On an extended trip it's good to have some of the comforts of home. Electricity is obviously one of them and a good system can make all the difference to how comfortably we live while on the road. A reliable source of electricity allows us to have good camp lighting, a cold beer, battery charging for the laptop, camera, phone, ipod, gps, torches, run shower, hf and uhf radios ......and the list goes on. But all this gear costs energy to run and we've met people on the track and on the EO forum with little understanding of the power drawn by the gear they "need".

While for example, 20 watts will provide good camp lighting, heating gadgets like a hair dryer or microwave will demand 40 times that much. While it's theoretically possible to run these "essentials" from an inverter driven by vehicle electrics, it is generally not practicable to do so.

We'll discuss amps and amphours and watts and such stuff later, but for now please accept that we are measuring our electricity consumption in amphours (Ah).

So just how much electric power do we actually use in camp each day? A fairly typical electricity budget might look something like this:

Fridge (small compressor type running about 1/3 of the time): 3.6 Amps x 7 hrs = 25 Amphours
Camp lights : 1.7 Amps x 3 hours = 5 Amphours
Laptop: 4Amps x 1 hour = 4 Amphours
Charging cameras, torches etc: 1 Amp x 1 hour = 1 Amphour
Radios etc = 1.5 Amphours


TOTAL: 36.5 Amphours

The critical numbers here are the TOTAL amphours and the fact that, even though we are talking about a small fridge, the fridge accounts for 2/3 of that total. Some fridges use less than this, many use more, so this is a reasonable figure for our discussion here.


How do we know how much power our gadgets require?



The only reliable way is to measure the current they draw. Most power packs for laptops and entertainment gear will be labelled with the maximum power the pack can supply, but not the average drawn by the appliance, which is what we really need to know. Talking of measurement, a multimeter (available for less than $20) is a very useful tool when working on these electrical systems.

So, where's that electricity going to come from?



It can originate from the vehicle's alternator, from a battery charger running off 240V mains supply, from solar panels or from a petrol or wind driven generator. In all cases though we will need a battery to store the electricity produced for times when those sources aren't producing. We will put electricity into the battery, then draw it out as we use our appliances. We'll discuss later just how much storage capacity we need.

The vehicle's own (cranking) battery has only one critically important function - to start the vehicle's engine. Once the engine is running, the alternator driven by the engine will meet all the vehicle's needs, and can create a surplus which can be used for our domestic needs. While it's reasonable to take a little from the vehicle's battery for general camping use, a dedicated auxiliary battery is really called for. An auxiliary battery will avoid the problem of running down the cranking battery perhaps to a point where it can't start the engine. Moreover a battery designed for this sort of service, a deep cycle battery, will perform the domestic chores better than a cranking battery can.

Before we start talking about batteries though, lets talk briefly about watts and volts and amps, the units by which aspects of electricity are measured.

The FLOW of electric current is measured in units called amperes or amps for short (abbreviated as A). Voltage (V) refers to the force that drives that flow of electric current. A watt is a unit of electrical power, obtained by multiplying the voltage by the amps (the force by the flow rate.) Our vehicle electric systems operate at a nominal 12 volts. Since that voltage is set, the amount of electrical power (watts) flowing is directly proportional to the electric current, the amps. So, in vehicle electrics we often take an intellectual shortcut and think of amps as relating to power. We refer to the total flow over time as so many amphours (abbreviated Ah). If 1 amp (A) flows for 10 hours, that's 10 Ah. So is 5 amps for 2 hours or 10 amps for 1 hour. The amount of electrical energy is the same in each case.


Batteries



All of the batteries we are concerned with here use lead-acid chemistry, which pretty much defines their voltages. Trace amounts of other elements, notably calcium, may be included to produce particular characteristics and these will change the basic voltages a little. A standard 12V lead-acid battery consists of 6 cells, each with a voltage of close to 2.1V. These cells are connected in series inside the battery to provide about 12.6V

Battery capacity figures can be a mystery.



Cranking batteries (used for starting a vehicle) usually have a CCA (cold cranking amps) rating. They are intended to deliver high currents (maybe 100 to 200 A) for a few seconds. For a big 4WD we'd choose the highest CCA rated battery that will fit in the space available. While a CCA rating of 400 might be ok in the sedan, we'd look for double that, and maybe use two batteries, to start a 4 litre diesel on a cold morning.

For the auxiliary ("house") battery we choose a deep cycle one. They are intended to supply smaller currents (fewer amps), but for longer periods. (eg maybe 1 or 2 amps for lights for a few hours.) These deep cycle batteries are usually rated in amphours (Ah), relating to the number of amps, multiplied by the number of hours we can expect from the battery when fully charged. So a 100 Ah deep cycle battery might deliver 5 amps for 20 hours, or 20 amps for 5 hours, and that's roughly what happens. The rated capacity is measured in Ah at a particular rate of discharge (usually the 20 hour rate), and varies a bit with the rate of discharge.

It is important to be aware that fully discharging any battery will seriously shorten its life, especially if it's left discharged for very long. Generally it is recommended that in spite of the name "deep cycle", a battery should not be discharged more than about half, 2/3 at the most if it is to have a good life span. So while our 100 Ah battery might deliver 5 amps for 20 hours to be totally exhausted, if we value it, we shouldn't discharge it at this rate for more than 10 or 12 hours.

There are various types of deep cycle batteries. A comprehensive discussion of the pros and cons of these different types, wet, gel, flat and spiral wound AGM, may be found on the Battery Value sitehere. Their Deep Cycle FAQ also provides valuable information. We will be concerned mainly with AGM batteries, though gel types are also commonly used by travellers. A constraint to bear in mind is that gel and AGM batteries are not suitable for mounting in the engine bay due to the high temperatures there.

Historically, the electrodes in batteries were immersed in baths of concentrated sulphuric acid, dangerously corrosive stuff. Most cranking batteries and the cheapest deep cycle batteries still use this so-called wet cell arrangement. Now though, gel and absorbent glass mat (AGM) batteries are generally available and are much more friendly to handle. These are based on much the same chemistry and use the same acid, but the acid is contained in a gel or absorbent mat. With this construction, the battery may be fully sealed and even used upside down without losing acid. (Although the acid is captive, these batteries are best mounted right way up since the internal structure is designed for maximum strength when mounted this way.) Because the acid is captive, gel and AGM batteries may be safely carried inside a vehicle. (Wet cell batteries should not be carried inside a vehicle as not only is the acid a hazard if you accidentally go upside down, but they give off small amounts of explosive hydrogen when charging.)

Now, let's go back to our energy budget that called for about 36 amphours each day, most of it just to run the fridge. A 100 Ah battery is typical of what we'll need for our auxiliary battery. In 2 days at 36 amphours per day we will use about 72Ah or 2/3 of the capacity of our 100 Ah battery, and that's about as far as we would wish to discharge it.


Usage Considerations



The fridge is energy hungry, so managing the fridge is important - add the beer in the morning when the beer is cool, not late in the afternoon when it is as hot as it can be. Don't run the fridge too cold, and avoid opening it frequently. Larger fridges are becoming more common and some travellers carry two fridges, which adds considerably to the daily energy demand. Note that we are talking here of small compressor style fridges, not the 3 way type which would be impossibly demanding (about 300 Ah per day!) when running from our battery. Also note that if we run the fridge as a freezer, the power requirement gets very much higher.

If we are going to run a fridge, it is going to be by far the biggest energy user, so saving an amp or two on more efficient lighting doesn't count a lot in the daily energy budget. Remember though that many small 12Vdevices if used for a long time will have a cumulative impact on our energy budget. Personally, we don't stint on lighting. LEDs and fluorescents are certainly more efficient than halogen lighting, but dichroic halogen lamps produce white light of far better quality. A single 20W halogen provides excellent camp lighting; a 10W halogen makes a good reading light.

Something to be aware of: Any heating device uses lots of energy. Jugs, hair dryers, microwaves, toasters, electric frypans etc are far too power hungry for a system based on one or two 100 Ah batteries.

How do we charge an auxiliary battery?



First, a few preliminaries and general considerations:



Any battery in the auxiliary system MUST be fitted with a fuse or circuit breaker close to the battery to protect the wiring and minimise the risk of fire. A 30A fuse or 50A circuit breaker is usually suitable. I favour a fuse, since it is inexpensive, operates more rapidly in the event of a fault, and the battery can be conveniently disconnected from the system by simply removing the fuse. Self resetting circuit breakers have the unfortunate habit of re-connecting at an inopportune moment!

Regardless of what charging system is used, it is essential that heavy wiring and good connectors such as Anderson plugs be used to minimise resistive losses. Just how heavy gauge the wire needs to be varies with each setup, but 6 B&S is often a good choice. (Details are in Appendix 2.) The charger or controller should be mounted close to the battery so as to minimise the effect of wiring losses on the charger's operation.

It is possible to use two or more batteries connected in parallel (ie positives connected together, and negatives connected together) to produce effectively one large capacity battery. Because of the different threshold voltages and other differences between different types of batteries, only batteries with similar age, history, chemistry and structure should be used this way.

Now to business



In a perfect world batteries would be charged by a three (or more) stage charger. In the first stage (bulk) these deliver a constant current (amps) while the voltage slowly rises to a predetermined maximum. After this the voltage is held constant during the second stage (absorption) and the charging current will slowly fall as the battery approaches maximum charge. When the current has dropped to a low value, around an amp for our deep cycle batteries, the charger switches to the third stage (float), the charging voltage is reduced a little to provide a very slow trickle of current.

Different structures and chemistries lead to differences in these threshold voltages and currents. For present purposes though, the constant current phase should use a current no higher than 1/5 of the battery's Ah rating (e.g 20A for a 100Ah battery). The constant voltage phase may be around 14.4V for wet and most AGM, batteries, usually lower for gel and a little higher (14.7V, sometimes up to 15V) for some AGM types. The particular battery will carry the manufacturer's recommendations, which should be observed. This applies particularly to AGM, gel and calcium doped batteries.

In the real world, the auxiliary battery may be charged by the alternator that delivers a voltage that varies with alternator temperature and is intended to suit the cranking battery. The voltage will be a bit low for charging the auxiliary battery. (Note that while the alternator is running, it will be powering the fridge and all the other gear too. This loading can cause a voltage drop that further limits the voltage available for charging the battery. Heavy cabling is essential to minimize this drop.)

The most critical limitation is that the charging voltage supplied by the alternator is generally too low to fully charge the auxiliary battery. Three stage dc-dc chargers are available to accept the alternator voltage and increase it to that required by the "house" battery. (Something not to be overlooked - a dc-dc charger is intended to deliver the rated current to the battery in spite of its source voltage being too low. Larger ones can make excessive demands on the alternator. Before fitting one, check that the alternator can deliver!)

Charging from the vehicle



In the simplest case, we can connect the auxiliary battery to the cranking battery while the engine is running and the alternator will provide charging current to both. This connection can be done manually, but it's far better to use a proper controller (a Voltage Sensitive Relay (VSR) such asthis one.) which makes the connection only after the cranking battery has been recharged, and will reliably disconnect the batteries from each other when the engine stops. Disconnecting is important, since otherwise the "household" electricity will be drawn partly from the cranking battery. It is essential too that the batteries be disconnected from each other when starting the engine so that the high starting currents don't damage the "house" battery and wiring.

Alternators fitted by the vehicle manufacturer are often rated at 55 amps. It's worth keeping this in mind as we start adding extra loads such as fridges, extra batteries, and especially if we include a big dc-dc charger. Higher capacity alternators (80, 120A) are also available and may be required.

These simple systems have limitations, as the charging voltage from the alternator is tailored to the needs of the cranking battery rather than the deep cycle battery. The available voltage is a little low for charging an auxiliary battery and drops further with increasing temperature in the engine bay. This low voltage problem becomes worse if the auxiliary battery is mounted some distance from the cranking battery, perhaps in the back of the vehicle or in a trailer, as more voltage is lost due to resistance in the wiring. In addition, the chemistry of most deep cycle batteries will be slightly different from that of the cranking battery and call for higher charging voltages (at least 14.4 and some over 15V instead of 14 -14.4V for the cranking battery). It is not possible to FULLY charge these deep cycle batteries directly from a vehicle alternator.

Dc-dc chargers, referred to above, may be used to increase the available voltage and provide multistage charging to the deep cycle battery. They provide a constant current stage, followed by a constant voltage stage, before switching to the float stage, and are usually rated according to their constant current output, 20A, 30A etc. They effectively draw extra input current and trade it for higher output voltage, so draw considerable current from the alternator. Alternator capacity needs to be considered before fitting a dc-dc charger.

Another option to increase the charging voltage from the alternator is to modify the vehicle's voltage regulator circuitry, but this requires electrical expertise. A simpler approach that avoids tampering with the alternator itself is to include a small voltage drop in the voltage sensing line. Neither approach is recommended for the novice and both may be highly confusing to the computers in recent model vehicles!

Charging from the 240V mains



Different types of batteries, Gel, AGM, wet, calcium..., require different charging regimes. Good chargers are not cheap, but cheap chargers are not good and can cost battery life. The better chargers (multistage chargers) provide constant current charging, followed by a constant voltage phase and once charging is virtually complete, a slow trickle maintenance current, as described above. (Generally, the charging current should not exceed 20% of the battery's amphour rating - the maximum rate for most 100 Ah batteries is 20 amps.) It is the voltage at which the change from constant current to constant voltage occurs that differs between battery types; around 14V for Gel, 14.4V for AGM, 14.4 to 14.7V for wet and over 15V for most calcium batteries.

240V Generators



If you are running a fridge and you find the perfect camp spot you can stay there for a day or two relying on the power stored in your 100 Ah auxiliary battery. But if you are stopping for more than a couple of days some other way of charging the auxiliary battery will be needed. The options are solar panels or a generator.

Too often, you get what you pay for with the small cheap generators. A respectable generator may cost over $1000, and even then its inbuilt battery charger will usually not be satisfactory as most lack the regulation necessary for a good battery life span. You will then need a suitable 240V charger (preferably a multistage one) to run from the generator.

A generator may have other applications - you might carry a power hungry hairdryer or microwave, which would embarrass a battery based system. Don't forget though that in many campgrounds and national parks, generators are not welcome, and the noise may be a selfish intrusion on other's peace and quiet.

Another generator option that's worth considering, especially if you only camp occasionally: There is already a generator under the bonnet of your vehicle! Some travellers run their engine on fast idle for a while (say an hour) each day when stationery just to put some charge in the auxilliary battery. This costs fuel, but doesn't require any expenditure on extra gear, so may be a cost effective way to go, especially if the auxiliary battery has the benefit of a dc-dc charger to make best use of the alternator

Solar panels



Solar panels are quiet and increasingly affordable , though big and can be awkward to carry. Provided the sun shines, solar panels from about 100W upwards can probably meet the needs of an energy frugal campsite. Given good sunlight, 150W of solar capacity should handle a less frugal camp. The technology in this area is changing rapidly.

There are some important considerations when using solar panels. The maximum power output from a solar panel intended for 12V battery charging occurs when the panel operates at about 17-20V. This is a considerably higher voltage than a battery will tolerate, so a controller is essential to manage battery charging.

There are basically two types of controllers. In the past, simple Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) controllers were used to pass the current available from the panels directly to the battery. With this simple system the current drawn by the battery puts such a load on the panels that the panel voltage is pulled down to match the battery's requirements. Consequently the panel voltage is 25-30% below its optimum power generating point. As the battery approaches fully charged it draws less current, allowing the panel voltage to rise. When the voltage reaches the battery's maximum acceptable charging voltage the PWM controller disconnects the panel from the battery. These simple controllers are often included free with the solar panel.

Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT) controllers are now available at reasonable prices. These convert the panel voltage to that required by the battery, allowing the panel to operate at its optimum voltage, and effectively trading its excess voltage for additional charging current. Since the charging process is optimised by these controllers, they deliver to the battery about 20% or more solar power than do the simple PWM controllers. Also, they offer the advantages of multistage charging. Most will also monitor the discharging of the battery and disconnect it in the event of a fault, or to protect it from excessive discharge.

There is a big range of MPPT controllers, and some of the cheapest ones appear to rely more on "witchcraft" and marketing than on technology. They are simply not MPPT controllers. Others are excessively sophisticated and expensive. A good inexpensive one that I particularly favour comes from Battery Value, a commercial member on this site. It provides a 10A controller, suitable for up to 150W of panels, and ticks all the important boxes - it is a true MPPT controller providing multistage charging, and also provides over-current protection. Details are here.

With any MPPT controller, losses in wiring should be minimised by using heavy wiring, and the wiring should be kept as short as possible. (This is less important with a simple PWM controller since power will be discarded anyway.) Losses should always be avoided though between either type of controller and the battery, so the controller should be close to the battery, rather than close to the panels.

To achieve maximum power, the panels must be clean and aimed reasonably well at the sun, so must be moved a few times a day as the sun moves across the sky. (Purists might argue that it's the Earth that moves, but that's another story!)

According to our energy budget, if we could input about 40 Ah, we could replace one day's drain, so we'd gain an extra day's use. If we could do this every day from solar panels, we'd be fully self sufficient while ever the sun shone. Assuming 7 hours of strong sunlight per day, we'd need to push about 6 amps into the battery. To do this using a simple PWM controller we'd need a 100W panel, or with an MPPT controller, an 80W panel.

An 80 watt panel with a simple controller will supply close to 5 amps, which isn't quite enough to meet daily demand with 7 hours sunshine. With good sunshine though, it would take a week or more before the cumulative daily loss became a problem. A 60 watt panel will deliver only about 3.5 amps, or about 25 Ah per sunny day, so can meet only 2/3 of the daily demand. It will extend our stay from 2 days to 3 days before the battery is 2/3 discharged.

To harvest enough sunshine for a long term stay, allowing for some cloudy days or poor orientation, at least a 120W (or 2 x 60W) should be good. This is confirmed by our own experience. A 60W panel didn't help much, but adding an 85W panel to it to give 145W capacity was good if we had reliable sunshine.


What about 240V ?



The need to have 240V power when camping can be largely avoided. 12V chargers for cameras, phones, gps, laptop etc are readily available and are more efficient than using an inverter running from 12V to supply 240V to be changed back to some low voltage to charge the appliance batteries.

An inverter has basically two functions - to provide an alternating current (ac) voltage rather than the direct current (dc) available from the battery, and to raise the voltage up to an average of 240V. There are several classes of inverter. The most expensive ones provide a pure sine wave that is preferred for any sensitive equipment, especially laptops. The cheapest simply provide a square wave ac, which is satisfactory with most motors and some small chargers for cameras, phones etc, but not for most laptop computers. There are also intermediate types, "modified sine wave", which combine a number of square waves to approximate a sine wave shape. These are usually satisfactory for laptops, but, like the square wave types,can create a lot of radio interference. Some details of the three types may be found here.


Inverters are about 80% efficient. They come in different sizes. A 150W unit will handle most camp requirements, but may have trouble starting a laptop (even though the average drain by the computer is much less than this.) A 300W unit is probably a sensible minimum. Bear in mind that Watts = Volts x Amps, so, if we draw the full 300 watts, we will require 25 amps from the 12volt battery, plus 20% to account for inefficiency. That's 30 amps. This will draw from the battery in 1 hour about the same as our whole day's energy budget. There are also many larger inverters. A 2000W one will provide enough power to run power tools or even an electric jug, but at full output will draw from the battery about 150-200 amps. That's as much current as a winch when fully loaded, and way outside the comfort zone of any deep cycle battery. If drawing big power from these big inverters it is essential to run the engine so that the alternator can shoulder part of the load.

Something not to be overlooked - the 240 volts from an inverter or generator is just as lethal as the 240 volts in your home. To make matters worse, the devices fitted in our homes (ELCB's or RCD's) to disconnect the power if we get bitten by mains voltage, do NOT provide protection from generators and inverters. For an excellent discussion of the factors and physiology involved in the dangers of electricity , see The Human Conductor - Electric Shock and Electrocution.


So, finally, how much storage do we need?



First let's decide to have ample charging capability. That will probably call for a dc-dc charger capable of supplying at least 20A for travelling days, and at least 120W of solar panels (and sunlight!) to use on non-travel days. The dc-dc charger will take about 2 hours to meet our daily energy requirements, and the solar panels will need most of the day. If we have both and our 36 Ah per day budget applies, a 100 Ah battery should handle our requirements and allow for up to two days without sunlight and without running the engine. More storage or more solar capacity would provide a bigger buffer and more flexibility. If we were to increase our daily requirements by running the fridge as a freezer, or using a large fridge, we'd probably need to increase our solar capacity and our storage to maintain a reasonable buffer

There is another consideration. A minimal system would use a 100 Ah battery. A more substantial system might involve two of them. Some big rigs carry 500 Ah. Each 100Ah of storage weighs about 33 kg and costs around $150 to $400+. How many do we want to carry? Not too many!



Appendix 1



Measuring the state of charge of a battery


The question often arises "Can I measure how much charge is in the battery by measuring its voltage?"
The simple answer is NO. A slightly better answer is YES BUT.... where the BUT is like this - Battery voltage is very dependent on recent history. When a battery is being charged or discharged, the measured voltage depends largely on the rate of flow of current in or out, not just the state of charge. The battery voltage doesn't stabilise for hours after current flow ceases, so Yes, you can get some idea of the state of charge if you let the battery rest for a few hours before taking a measurement. Because of the different chemistries, different batteries will show different voltages at the same state of charge, so the measured voltage will give an idea, but not a good indication of state of charge. The curve in the graph applies to many wet cell batteries, but don't treat it as being reliable and note that it calls for a 5 hour rest period before measuring the voltage.



Well, can we measure the net flow of charge in and out of our battery to get some idea of the state of charge? Again.....Yes, BUT..... Batteries are generally about 90% efficient, so we need to put in at least 10% more than we take out. The efficiency gets worse if we take charge out fast - if we discharge at say 20 amps for a certain time, it will take much more than twice as long to recharge at 10 amps. So yes we can measure net in and out, but it isn't very useful.

OK, so how do you know when the battery is full, or getting low on charge?



Monitoring the battery voltage and current can give a good idea of the state of charge. If a charger is delivering say 14.4 volts to an AGM battery and the battery is only accepting a couple of amps, it is very close to fully charged. If the battery is delivering a few amps to the "house" system and the terminal voltage drops below 12V it's time to push some charge into it. If below 11.5V it's important to charge it. If it's delivering those same few amps and the terminal voltage has dropped below 10.8V, it is pretty close to being fully discharged and getting some charge into it is urgent and important!

How do you pick that half to 2/3 discharged point? Watch those voltage and current meters, get to know just how much power you are drawing from the battery and how much you are putting back in. Aim to stay close to that 100% charged state, then you know you've got a day or two in reserve, and are comfortably inside the top 2/3.

Appendix 2



Wire sizing and resistive losses




What sized wiring should we use? These links refer to AWG sizing. B&S (more commonly used in Australia) sizing is the same as AWG. These sizes refer to the amount of copper in the cable, not the outside size of the insulation. Be careful - some wire sold as say 6mm is 6 mm diameter (outside the insulation!) not 6 square mm of copper. Best to buy by B&S (or AWG) sizing.
Wire gauges, sizing in mm, square mm, resistance per metre
Maximum recommended current as a function if wire size and length.

The voltage drop for a copper conductor can also be calculated easily using the equation:
Voltage drop = [cable length (in metres) X current (in amps) X 0.0164] divided by cable cross-section in square mm.
Remember to allow for the voltage drop in both the positive line and the negative (earth return) path.



Appendix 3



Some useful links and afterthoughts:



A very comprehensive article covering vehicle electrics and solar power may be found here on ExploreOz


An excellent source for detailed information on batteries generally is this one, and specifically for deep cycle batteries is this one.


Trailer wiring.


While there is no obligation to use the standard configurations when wiring a trailer connector, doing so can save a lot of frustration, especially when your mate wants to borrow your trailer! The standard colour coding and wiring configurations may be found here on Exploroz or or here.






J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein
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BlogID: 849 Comments: 25 Views: 60699 Attachments: 1
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Submitted: Monday, Jan 26, 2009 at 11:31

Kempen commented:

Hi John and Val, A very informative article indeed. When campe for more than two days and if not driving omewhere each day I run the diesel engine at advanced idle speed off the handthrottle for 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes at midday and 20 minutes in the evening. This seems to keep the auxilliary battery topped up. I have not done an exact study of this but will endeavour to do one this year when we are out in the Pilbara. Regards, Willem
Comment 1 of 25
Submitted:Monday, Jan 26, 2009 at 13:07

Member - John and Val replied:

Thanks Willem. Very good point. I've included a brief para in the text.
Cheers
John
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein
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Submitted: Monday, Feb 09, 2009 at 09:29

Member - RockyOne commented:

Wow! This one well researched and written article. I hope to bookmark it so I & others can always refer back to it. Thanks. RockyOne
Comment 2 of 25
Submitted: Monday, Feb 09, 2009 at 21:57

Member - Robert R1 (SA) commented:

This a comprehensive article and easy to understand. I feel comforted by the section on solar power. I have only solar - two 80w BP panels with two 100 Ah AGM batteries. I always have enough power. People worry that with solar you have to leave your vehicle in the sun all day. On a number of occasions I have parked under a tree in hot weather. The fridge is cooler and may only use 5 to 10 Ah for the day instead of around 30 Ah. There seems to be enough sun getting to the panels to put 10 to 15 Ah to keep the batteries charged.
Regards,
Bob
And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended, And at night the wondrous glory of the everlasting stars. Clancy of the Overflow.
Comment 3 of 25
Submitted:Tuesday, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:10

Member - John and Val replied:

Thank you for your comments Bob. Sounds like you have a really good system, with ample storage and ample panels. There's certainly a tradeoff between parking in the sun for the sake of the panels and parking in the shade to reduce the load. Some panels handle partial shading better than others; another factor to consider when first setting up.
Cheers
John
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein
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Submitted: Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 03:06

Doug&Dog commented:

Supporting Willem's method of using the vehicle to charge up, the other plus is that if you have a diesel, then you don't need to carry petrol for a generator.
And if you don't want to annoy your fellow campers, go for a drive instead; this at least does the vehicle auxiliary.
Doug & Dog (Welshmun)
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Comment 4 of 25
Submitted:Sunday, Feb 22, 2009 at 06:32

Member - John and Val replied:

Thank you for your comment Doug. In the light of Willem's suggestion I added a paragraph above to suggest simply running the engine to charge the battery. It's an obvious solution that at first sight (running a 4 litre engine to keep the fridge cold) looks extravagant. Fact is, you can run that engine for a long time on the $1000+ you have to spend on a decent generator or solar panels.

My own choice was to use solar. I've had alternators die on me, and wanted the security of having some way of starting the engine, or at least calling for help, if this happened in a remote area. The choice between solar and generator was easy - the costs are similar but one is light and quiet, the other heavy, smelly and often pretty noisy.
J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein
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Submitted: Friday, Mar 27, 2009 at 08:59

Fred G NSW commented:

Thank you for the best article I have ever read on camping power systems. Very informative and easy to understand. I am in the process of fitting one of Derek Besters ARB dual battery systems to supply fridge and light power for our caravan, and your article has enlightened me on many points I could never quite understand.
Fred G NSW.
Don't regret growing old. It is a privilege denied to many.......

Hoo Roo
Comment 5 of 25
Submitted: Thursday, Jun 18, 2009 at 08:16

Fiona & Paul commented:

Thanks for the good info and I will use it as a reference as we test out the capabilities of our setup and how long we can stay self sufficient. Getting to grips with using the fridge efficiently (EvaKool) for keeping the beer and drinking water cold is our main focus now and you gave us some good pointere.
Fiona & Paul
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OZ Downunder
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Comment 6 of 25
Submitted: Thursday, Oct 15, 2009 at 09:15

Mick O commented:

John, a great, informative article. I'll be referring to it often as I prepare my new Rig. Time to get serious on the power set-up and this will help me no end. Thanks Mick.
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Comment 7 of 25
Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 19:41

boxhd commented:

hi just lookin at bying solar panels so saying having 2x80 watt panels is a over kill is it bigger the better for plenty of power i am running 2x 120 amp deep cycle batterys for lights, 2 frigdes,etc thanks mick
Comment 8 of 25
Submitted:Wednesday, Feb 17, 2010 at 20:12

Member - John and Val replied:

G'day Mick,

The fridge is the big consumer. We have one fridge and find 145 watts of solar panels is good, maybe a bit more than we need. If you are running 2 fridges you'll need more panel than we have. Two x 120 Ah batteries is good but I think you will need more than 2 x 80 W panels to keep them charged if they have to power 2 fridges (especially if you run one as a freezer).

Depends a lot on your usage patterns. If you are travelling most days and can charge from the alternator, 2 x 80 W may be enough. If you like to stop for more than 2 or 3 days though, I think 2 x 100W panels, or better, 2 x 120W might be better.

Another option worth considering is a good dc-dc charger (also called a battery to battery charger). With one of these connected close to the batteries, you will get a good charge into them from the alternator. If you stop for a week in one place you could run the engine for an hour a day much more cheaply than buying bigger solar panels. I'd still go solar, but for the odd occasion when you stop for more than a few days, or when the sun doesn't shine, using the generator that's already under the bonnet is a good way to go. A dc-dc charger will put a good charge into your batteries any time the engine is running at more than a slow idle.

HTH

John
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Submitted: Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 at 13:48

Angler commented:

DC to DC chargers are a product many people do not understand. The possibility of connecting to a DC source of say 11.5 volts and getting out around 14.5 volts is really a big plus for charging auxiliary batteries from a vehicles slow running engine. Some solar regulator are now doing something similar for when the sun drops a bit or cloud cover is stopping normal charge the output tries to stay at sufficient output to still charge.
With panels now at about $400.00 for 80Watts solar is becoming even more affordable. Stories are around about even better prices and outputs on the horizon from Australian manufacturers. Lets hope so anyway.

Pooley
Comment 9 of 25
Submitted:Sunday, Mar 21, 2010 at 14:15

Member - John and Val replied:

Thank you for your comments. Now that DC to DC chargers have become much less expensive they are a very attractive item. They are discussed in the blog, but I've now amended it to point more firmly at them. With the price of MPPT solar controllers now down to sensible levels they too are highly desirable. In the brief time since this blog was first posted the price of solar panels has almost halved - technology moves fast!!

Cheers

John
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Submitted: Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010 at 18:02

The Landy commented:

John & Val I just had a read of this great report, and it is very timely for me following our recent trip. I need to improve our battery, energy and charging management in 'The Landy'.

Cheers, Baz - The Landy
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Comment 10 of 25
Submitted:Thursday, Jul 29, 2010 at 07:43

Member - John and Val replied:

Thanks you for your comment Baz. We value all feedback. Hope you find the article helpful.

Cheers

John
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Submitted: Sunday, Jul 10, 2011 at 17:13

Member - DingoBlue(WA) commented:

Wonderfull article about power options , why not try camping without power?
No need to have cold beer..drink red wine!
The art of camping is being lost due to the marketing of technology that you must have. The true camper relies on common sense, preparation and ingenuity, not some shop bought technology.

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Comment 11 of 25
Submitted: Friday, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:57

dave b3 commented:

for most people who have a comfortable lounge and house and tv and then go camping thats the way to go dingo.but for myself i work on mine 2weeks then live out of my car 2weeks. i generally read about 8 novels a fortnight,but i have a dream. yes i want to park at an isolated beach have my fishing rod out,cold beers and ...watch the cricket.
this article has been very helpful.
my car only single battery ,im thinking waeco 60ltr with the waeco deep cell battery plus a solar panel,maybe i need the dc to dc charger i dont mind spending money on fuel.
im looking at between $1500 to $2500 for fridge and power to get my troopy fully trooped up.
any advice would be great
Comment 12 of 25
Submitted:Friday, Jan 20, 2012 at 18:23

Member - John and Val replied:

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your comment. Happy to help if I can.

I like your dream!

The Waeco 60 litre is a good choice if you have room for it. Any bigger than that and the Waecos use a bigger hungrier compressor. Engel seem to use a bit less power, but they are pretty expensive to buy. The bigger Engels also use more power.

Personally I don’t think I’d buy a battery from Waeco though. I think the Waeco boxes are only 36 Ah, which isn’t a lot. I think you’ll get a lot more storage for your dollar by simply buying a 100 Ah deep cycle battery, or maybe 2 of them.

Don’t know where you are, but I’m guessing Pilbara? Lots of sunshine during the dry, but for a couple of weeks without running the Troopy, would you have enough to keep the beer cool when you want to get away at other times of the year? I don’t know. I reckon I’d start with a 100 Ah battery (or a bit bigger if you can lay hands on a 120Ah or more at a sensible price). For solar, if you can aim a panel at the sun for say 5 hours a day, a 120W one with an MPPT controller should be good. A dc-dc charger mightn’t help much because you are sitting stationary, but would certainly be very useful if you have to run the Troopy just to charge the battery. ( I wouldn’t use one with the little Waeco battery – it would kill it.)

Our Troopy has 2 x 100Ah batteries, a 30 amp dc-dc charger and 150W of solar. The dc-dc charger does most of the charging as we are usually moving most days. Your situation is different so you will probably rely mainly on solar, and a dc-dc might be less useful.

I reckon you’ll need a Voltage Sensitive Relay to control alternator charging (the ABR Sidewinder one with the link in the article is a good value one. ) You will need a battery or 2 – If you are in the east, Battery Value in Brisbane is good and very helpful. There’s a link in the article to their site too. ( Theirs is the MPPT controller I suggested. ) Solar panels – I used ebay and have been happy with the results. There are some rogues selling panels, so suggest before you buy ask for comment on the forum. I think your budget is probably about right, and you should be pretty pleased with the result.


Cheers

John



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Submitted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 12:43

Member - gjhakka commented:

Hi John,

Great article....thanks for taking the time and effort to enlighten us.
I would however like some further advice please.

I am fitting a tri battery set up to my Jeep Wrangler (in cabin behind the front seats). Apart from the start battery, I have a 75ah Thumper and am looking at adding a 100 to 120ah AGM. I probably spend 3 to 4 days at the most in one place and would need to rely on the vehicle to charge the batteries ( I don't have solar but may? go that way down the track). The system is to run the 40 l Engel, some LED camp lighting and a few battery chargers - iPad, iPhone, cameras etc.

I have been advised to run the 2 aux batteries in parallel.
What do you recommend as the best way to keep them topped up? Redarc BCDC1240, CTEKD250S Dual, Pirahna DBE180S have all been recommended to me by various people, but I am totally confused as to what to use.
Mate, any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Hakka
Xterra Adventures - the kayak adventure experts
Comment 13 of 25
Submitted:Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 17:10

Member - John and Val replied:

Hi Hakka,

Sorry about the slow reply, but we have been travelling overseas, with very erratic access to the web.

Paralleling is the way to go, but when paralleling batteries they should preferably be of the same type (gel and gel, or agm and agm) and in similar condition. I use a 30A dc-dc charger from ABR Sidewinder to charge a parallel pair of 100Ah batteries, but something smaller, say a 20A one, might be kinder. I have no personal experience with the chargers you mention, but have heard good reports (and bad!) of them all. The Ctek includes solar as well, which sounds good and may be useful to you in the future. Suggest talk to Peter at Battery Value (a member on this site) about dc-dc chargers - I know he sells a 20A one which looks to be better than most, and he is very knowledgeable and helpful.

Cheers

John
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Submitted: Thursday, Sep 13, 2012 at 08:17

Member - Sanantone commented:

Hi John,

Great article. Can I get a clarification from you?

In regards to fridges, you mention "the 3 way type which would be impossibly demanding (about 300 Ah per day!) when running from our battery." Are you talking about the 3 way (gas / 240v & 12v) fridges in the vans?

If yes, why would they have such a high demand?

Many thanks
Tony
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Comment 14 of 25
Submitted:Thursday, Sep 13, 2012 at 12:49

Member - John and Val replied:

Hi Tony,

Yes, I am talking about 12V/240V/gas fridges. These have the great advantage of being able to run on gas. They are heat operated, so electric elements are provided to supply heat when it isn't practicable to run from gas. The operating process is far less efficient than that of a compressor fridge, which is no problem on gas, or when running from virtually unlimited 240V power. On 12V though, the element is run continuously to maintain a low temperature. This draws about 12 amps, which is ok while the motor is driving the alternator to provide this current, but too demanding to be supplied for long by a battery.

Cheers,

John
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Submitted: Thursday, Sep 13, 2012 at 13:45

Glenn M4 commented:

Hi John

You mention in your article about solar panels. I have been given some folding solar panels that are 200W. They have a controller on them but i am not sure what type but i believe only 10A. Is there any danger in the panels providing too much wattage when connected to charge the battery or will the controller adjust for this. If i remove the controller can i replace it with another and what would you recommend for me to use for the 200W panels to charge a 120AH AGM battery?

THanks
Comment 15 of 25
Submitted:Thursday, Sep 13, 2012 at 17:06

Member - John and Val replied:

Hi Glen,

Given 200W of solar panels?? Lucky man!!
If I understand correctly, you have a pair of panels hinged together and the total rated output of the pair is 200W. The pair has one 10A controller.

This sounds an unusual setup. I wonder if the labelling is correct. 200W of panel will have an area of about 2 square metres. Does it look to be about that?

The controller is probably a simple non-MPPT type. This may be satisfactory in a typical camping setup, since you probably won't need the maximum output of your panels if they can in fact deliver 200W. At 200W though, the panels can directly deliver about 11 or 12 amps, which is really a bit too far outside the range of a 10A controller. Also, it is much better to have the controller close to the battery, rather than close to the panels.

I think I'd be inclined to invest in a MPPT controller capable of handling at least 15A, instal it near the battery, and bypass (or remove) the present controller. I can't recommend any particular controller as my experience is limited to smaller systems. One worth considering is the Ctek dual d250s which combines a MPPT solar controller with 20A DC-DC charger, and includes a controller to manage charging from the vehicle. It's a good combination, but I haven't used it myself.

Could you overcharge and damage your battery with the big panels? Yes. A controller should stop charging once the battery is fully charged. The risk with a 10A controller is that it may fail and not do that job.

Hope that's some help. Please get back to me if it doesn't make sense!

Cheers

John



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Submitted: Thursday, Sep 13, 2012 at 19:08

Glenn M4 commented:

Thanks John that helps a lot. I found the panels on the following e-bay site. The controller it seems is 12A. Will this be OK?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-200W-Folding-Kit-Solar-Panels-Monocrystalline-Module-12V-Camping-Caravan-/130745959803?pt=AU_Solar&hash=item1e7111057b
Comment 16 of 25
Submitted: Sunday, Nov 18, 2012 at 18:05

kevmac....(WA) commented:

WOWSERS !!!
All that information. Is helpfiul in regard to my original question on this forum( lodged today_) after returning from our search or destroy mission with our new purchase. Solar will definitely be on our purchase list down the track, but for now we will have to rely on our 1kva Yamaha Inverter Generator( while it is still running). I purchased a 120a/h AGM battery day after I bought the van, but still had a 8 amp smart charger( desig. for Lead Acid batts.) which i was using, mainly because I already had it and last battery I had was a Lead-Acid 100 a/h . This charger seemed to take quite a while to get new battery even up to 50%.( 4 - 5 hrs in fact).
Would getting higher rated charger specifically for AGM's cut this charge time back significantly, to restrict genny running to say every 2nd 3rd day?. Ultimate aim is to go solar, but just after an interim solution, at a reasonable price.
Thanks again for an excellent article !!!
..... kevmac ..Albany,(WA) .......... Wannabe Grey Nomad(Senior but still working)
Comment 17 of 25
Submitted:Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 08:24

Member - John and Val replied:

Hi Kev,

The basic problem is that if you want to get say 30Ah average out of your battery each day you need to put 30Ah average into it each day (plus a bit to cover inefficiencies). Your options are a mains charger maybe driven by a generator, a dc-dc charger driven by the vehicle alternator, direct connection to the vehicle battery with suitable switching so it is only connected when charging voltages are available, or solar with a suitable controller.

Charging from the mains or a generator via a charger is a good way to go, BUT takes time – your 8 amp charger (if it does actually deliver a continuous 8A) will take about 4 hours to pump in the 30Ah you need each day. In practice an 8A charger may start off delivering 8 amps, but will probably taper down so that after an hour or two is only delivering 4 or 5 amps. (Many small generators also have in inbuilt charger for batteries, but usually these are pretty poor, without good regulation and can deliver excessive voltages towards the end of charging; this can damage batteries.)

If you do opt for a charger running from the 240V generator, I’d go to a bigger charger – maybe a 20 or 30 amp one so that you can meet your daily needs by running the generator for only an hour or two.

Depending on how much driving you do on an average day, and how many consecutive days you don’t drive, you may be better off installing a dc-dc charger and using the vehicle alternator to supply your charging current. It’s important to use heavy wiring from the engine bay to the charger (which should be close to the van battery). Also, before going up that path, check that your alternator has enough reserve capacity to run the charger. (These chargers effectively draw extra current from the alternator and use that extra energy to deliver a higher voltage to the battery, forcing higher current into it. With 20A flowing out to the battery, the input current to the charger will be at least 25A, and more if it also has to compensate for voltage losses in the wiring. This can get quite out of hand as the increased current results in more voltage loss due to resistance in the wiring, leading to it drawing more current, less voltages…….)

If you do plan to go solar in the future, suggest it’s worth considering something such as the Ctek D250S or Redarc BCD1225 which provide in one package the switching gear, a dc-dc charger and a MPPT solar controller.

For the moment, I’d opt for a bigger 240V charger that’s suitable for your AGM battery.

HTH

John
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Submitted: Monday, Nov 19, 2012 at 08:37

kevmac....(WA) commented:

Thanks for the info
..... kevmac ..Albany,(WA) .......... Wannabe Grey Nomad(Senior but still working)
Comment 18 of 25
Submitted: Sunday, Mar 17, 2013 at 13:00

Member - Jim G1 (QLD) commented:

There are a couple of great new Solar ideas for Campers and boaties on the fusioncats.com.au website with lightweight flexible and also an amazing fold out unit manufactured in camouflage canvas. I am running them on my truck and my van and very happy.
Life's for Living!
Comment 19 of 25
Submitted:Sunday, Mar 17, 2013 at 13:21

Member - John and Val replied:

Hi Jim,

Thank you for those details. The price of panels continues downwards and the efficiency upwards! Flexible panels are more expensive than rigid ones, but certainly have their attractions. I particularly like the fold-up pack described on their site.

Cheers

John
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Submitted: Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 09:13

Pelikan commented:

Thanks J & V for an excellent article.
Re the formula you refer to for calculating voltage drop.
As I wanted to buy a Thumper battery pack I emailed Home12volt to ask them what the wiring size was on the connection kit for charging (from the vehicle system) that comes with the battery pack. They wrote back to say that it was automotive 6mm (i.e. about 4.5 square mm). They also said that charging is achieved at 35 amps and the twin core cable supplied is 5.5 m long. I suggested to them that 35 amps through an 11m circuit would cause too big a voltage drop and that they should supply more adequate cables. They then got abusive and said that the voltage drop would only be 0.02 volts. They also said that US and UK measurements of cable size in AWG (B&S) or square mm were irrelevant in Australia and that they went by Australian standards. It so happens that Australian Standards these days use square mms, but Home12volt seemingly are unaware of this.
I calculated the voltage drop at about 1.4 volts using the above mentioned formula and cross checking with the tables in Nigel Calder's book (Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Maintenance). Can you tell me if I have got this wrong. Is it me that's off the planet or this supplier?
Cheers, Peter H
Comment 20 of 25
Submitted:Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 20:26

Member - John and Val replied:

Peter,

An Australian standard may exist, but it's widely ignored! Specifying the cross sectional area of the conductor is a good way to go, but I think that specifying wire gauge is pretty entrenched and subject to misinterpretations of convenience!

I have no experience with the Thumper, so can't comment from experience, but I understand it's nothing but a battery in a box with some connections and metering, and a VSR to connect it to the alternator when the motor is running. Different advertisers make different claims, but unless there's a dc-dc charger included, (which I doubt) the thing will not charge for long at 35 amps, regardless of the wire size.

I wonder if the expert advising you understands the difference between the diameter of the conductor and its cross sectional area? A 6mm cable (ie 6mm outside the insulation) may have a conductor 4.5 mm in diameter, but the conductor will have a cross section of about 15 square mm, which might be marginally satisfactory.

Are you off the planet? ...... No!

Cheers

John


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Submitted: Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 09:36

Pelikan commented:

Thanks John,

I think I will follow your advice and get a dc-dc charger. I didn't quite understand your last paragraph though. I have some reels of Tycab 6mm (automotive standard) cable which in brackets on the label states that it has a 4.59 square mm cross section. 6 b&s(AWG) cable which everyone says is OK for this application is 13.3 sq mm.

Cheers, Peter
Comment 21 of 25
Submitted:Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 08:46

Member - John and Val replied:

Peter,

I was referring to the difficulty that many people have in distinguishing the difference between conductor diameter and cross sectional area. There is also the intuitive leap required to accept that the wire size gets smaller as the gauge number gets bigger! Putting all this together and there is a lot of confusion about 6 AWG v's 6 B&S v's 6mm diameter v's 6 square mm cross section! Add in the "automotive" sizing that includes the insulation and there's plenty of room for confusion.

In the case of the wire that you already have, I wonder if it is correctly labelled? I would expect 6mm automotive cable to be 6mm in diameter, outside the insulation, with a copper core about 4.5mm in diameter, which would yield a cross sectional area of about 16 square mm. Could it be that the 4.59 square mm on the label is actually 4.59 mm diameter?? (If it's really 4.59 square mm, that would give a conductor diameter of only 2.4mm which seems pretty small for a 6mm cable.)

Cheers

John

Cheers

John
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Submitted: Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 17:05

Pelikan commented:

John,

I think you have hit the nail on the head. My two reels of cable must be mislabelled. I got the micrometer out and measured the diameter outside the insulation and found it to be 4mm. I then measured the conductor and found it to be a fraction over 2.4mm. The labels clearly state that the cable is Marine 6mm and then in brackets 4.59 square mm. This has led me to believe that 6mm cable was very inadequate when, if it is truly 6mm it may be better than 6 b&s (AWG) which has a nominal conductor diameter of 4.11 according to the tables I have.

Cheers, Peter
Comment 22 of 25
Submitted: Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 19:51

Member - John and Val commented:

Sounds as if we've cracked it Peter. The 2.4mm and 4.59 square mm tie together, but the 6mm seems wrong, especially if the total diameter is actually 4mm. Of course "marine 6mm" may be yet another standard, but I doubt it!

Cheers

John
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Comment 23 of 25
Submitted: Monday, May 13, 2013 at 14:37

Wayne Tompson commented:

Hi Guys,
Great article. I'm about to head off on a 10 week trip with my camper trailer. My 2000w generator broke down on my last trip. I bought it on ebay for about $700. It only lasted about 12 months. Does anyone suggest a good place to shop for an camping generator online? I'd prefer to go with a quality brand second time around.
Comment 24 of 25
Submitted:Monday, May 13, 2013 at 16:22

Member - John and Val replied:

Hi Wayne,

We don't carry a generator so can't comment from first hand experience. Followers of this site seem to like the big two quality Japanese makes, but depending on your usage that may be overkill. When Aldi and ebay offer a 2000kva job for a fraction the cost of a Honda or Yamaha, I'd find it hard to justify either unless it will get a lot of use. Suggest search the forum posts for other users' suggestions, or drop a question on the forum.

Cheers

John

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Submitted: Monday, May 13, 2013 at 16:27

Member - John and Val commented:

OOOOps!!!!! A correction Wayne - I wouldn't consider a 2 MW generator for camping, 2 kva, not 2000 kva should be ample!

Cheers

John
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Comment 25 of 25
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