Warranty warning.

Submitted: Monday, May 30, 2016 at 15:33
ThreadID: 132568 Views:9039 Replies:28 FollowUps:125
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I have just been told by Nissan Australia re my failed engine at 72000 km that they won't help me because I didn't pay them any money for parts or labour for servicing as I serviced the car myself and bought parts like oil and filters at another outlet. The car is out of warranty by 9 months but the diagnosis was a cracked block and I'm up for 9 grand for a new engine. Many companies out there advertise they do log book servicing that won't affect warranty but I'm thinking this could be a can of nasty worms if what has happened to me occurs to anyone else.
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Reply By: Tim F3 - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 15:52

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 15:52
We removed the engine on the weekend from a navara , we found that these emgines are available from 3 to 6 k approx.If you leave an email address i will forward details , if that helps.
AnswerID: 600737

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 15:56

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 15:56
Are these new or low mileage units?
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 16:34

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 16:34
Cheers mate. Have seen engines around that price then the rest is for labour new radiator etc etc. around 9 grand I was told but then again Nissan don't really have a clue.
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Reply By: Tim F3 - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 16:03

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 16:03
We saw 2 both were described as having approx 80000 klm one had new cylinder head new timing chains etc the cheaper one had other parts renewed . One had 3 months warrenty the better /more fully rebuilt offered 18 mths warrenty.

AnswerID: 600738

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 16:36

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 16:36
Check out this thread for a bit of interesting reading.

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/132365/2012_navara_2_5_D40.aspx?o=E870074
AnswerID: 600740

Reply By: Alloy c/t - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 16:43

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 16:43
Was the log book filled in and stamped by licenced / qualified workshops ?? If so its time to get onto your states consumer affairs dept …..as an aside some dealers are definitely getting uppity when it comes to servicing the products they sell , there is a Mitsubishi Dealer in Longreach who refuses to log book service a new Triton because he did not get the initial sale !
AnswerID: 600741

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 16:47

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 16:47
I serviced myself as a qualified mechanical fitter. I don't have a stamp as such because I'm not a business but did fill in and record all work done
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FollowupID: 870079

Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 17:03

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 17:03
And that [no licence / stamp] will be Nissans get out of jail free card , no aspersions on your capabilities but nowadays the licence /stamp is the proof required that the servicing was done to specification [ yes we all know that the 1st -2nd year apprentice is doing the servicing BUT the stamp deems the job was done .]
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 18:26

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 18:26
"The car is out of warranty by 9 months"
That's their get out of jail free card.
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Follow Up By: Hewy54 - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:07

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:07
Do they really need a get of jail free card?
There was a warranty with conditions. Those conditions were not adhered to and the warranty period had expired.
It is a shame when this type of thing happens, but that is why there is a warranty period.
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FollowupID: 870084

Follow Up By: Member - Roachie - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:09

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:09
Back in the early 2000s I owned a 2000 GU Patrol 4.2TD which I bought new. I had always serviced the vehicle myself except for the initial "free" service. I am not a mechanic (was a bank manager, now retired).

In late 2002 we moved from NSW (where I bought the Patrol at Cooma) to Kadina, SA. At the time, I had to leave a trailer loaded with my "gear" (including my ramps) back in NSW.

As much as it gawled me to do so, I booked the rig in to the local Nissan dealer for an oil change for its 95,000klm service.

Imagine my surprise when I called there to collect the Patrol.....

Service Manager (SM): "Have you ever had any trouble with 5th gear"
Me: "No.....why?"
SM: "We did a check of the oil level in the gearbox and noticed the oil is looking a bit coffee coloured.....a sure sign that 5th gear is about to let go".
Me: "Oh!!! Bugga!!!"
SM: "Would you like us to fix that under warranty?" You will have to pay for the new gearbox oil"
Me: "Um, let me think about that for a nano-second....YES PLEASE!!!!"

And, so it was....all fixed...new main shaft and 5th cog, seals, bearings etc.

So, as much as I hate Nissan's attitude towards their customers, this particular SM was a gem. Needless to say, he disappeared a month or two later.

Roachie
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:26

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:26
Maybe it was a recall that they were obliged to do.
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:36

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:36
PK ranger there is also laws about expecting a fair deal out of a product that you buy warranty or not. I this case the engine had a major failure at well below expected engine life and a block failure at that which should never happen. Head and Pistons etc all in brand new condition which indicates engine has not been overheated. Couldn't be clearer that this is a manufacturing fault. There have been numerous articles on various TV programmes saying you do not need extended warranties with any products as the manufacturer is obliged to provide the customer with a product that gives reasonable service for the price payed. In this case this engine falls way short of its expected life no matter who did the servicing. This simply should not have happened and Nissan are using everything they can to screw me over instead of doing the right thing.
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Follow Up By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 20:40

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 20:40
Yeah Kirk, I sympathise with you for sure, 72k is bugger all for mileage.
What year is it ?

So true, most 12 month warranties on say a washing machine or fridge is way less than one would expect to have trouble free . . . what sort of timespan should a vehicle be expected to get under Australias fair term laws ?

Would a Landcruiser TD be the same as a run of the mill jap common rail ?

It's be a hard one to isolate, but say 100k and maybe 5 years seems to be what I'd say if reasonable (to me at least), but a dealer / manufacturer might not.

Adding in off road use really opens it up to a reduction in life expectancy.
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FollowupID: 870095

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 09:34

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 09:34
Les it's an 012. I would say a reasonable minimum engine life would be at least 300000km. I'm not talking about belts and hoses or starter motors or alternators. I'm talking about engine block and the main engine structure here. A block should simply never have a problem such as this. I know it can wear out and it can be rebuilt back to original but when an engine fails in this way and is basically throw away then that should be covered and should never happen.
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FollowupID: 870115

Reply By: Michael H9 - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:32

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:32
The servicing work needs to be done by a licenced service centre so that everything is documented by a 3rd party. If not, then smarties will run cars into the ground without servicing and then try them on for warranty saying they did the services themselves. Warranty conditions are there to protect both sides from bad behaviour. I believe if your car had the required stamps in the log book by any licenced service centre, that you would have had a good chance of it being covered under warranty as 72k is too low for an engine failure even if the official warranty period has expired. Warranty periods aren't set in concrete as far as consumer affairs is concerned, but you have to be able to prove beyond doubt that you followed the warranty conditions.
AnswerID: 600750

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:39

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:39
All the servicing done by the book was logged on paper and in the car when the dealer received it from the tow truck. I couldn't have made it up.
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FollowupID: 870091

Reply By: Bushranger1 - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:54

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 19:54
G'day Kirk,
Like you I have been servicing my own & kids vehicles for about 40 years.

I do about 50,000km per year so it sure makes economic sense to do it myself right from the start. I nearly always buy new & keep my vehicles till they have done about 400,000 kms.

Had some minor issues in the warranty periods but never had an issue with dealers addressing any of these problems.
I am VERY thorough with the service regime & reckon I do it way better than most dealers. Let me tell you I would be very annoyed to have an engine fail at such a short milage.
Guess your experience is one reason to NEVER buy a Nissan.

Good luck with it all.
Cheers
Stu
AnswerID: 600751

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 20:04

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 20:04
Yeah exactly right mate. Spread the word. It's a pretty sad world when your told you can service your own vehicle if qualified and when it comes to the crunch your screwed. Half the time the dealers don't do half of it anyway. I just don't believe it's right but that won't stand up in court I guess. These companies are bigger than me and know the loopholes. They have heaps of lawyers working for them. They don't care about me stuck 5000km from home with no vehicle and no money to foot the bill.
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Reply By: gbc - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 20:04

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 20:04
Warranty warning? It's out of warranty and has no log books? You would have known when you elected to service your own vehicle that you were going to expose yourself to exactly this response when something went awry. You can't have it both ways.
AnswerID: 600752

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 21:03

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 21:03
Of coarse I didn't know that idiot. Thanks for your help. I was told it was ok if qualified. Would you expect a catastrophic failure at 72000 kms anyway. I doubt it. Have a nice night looser.
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FollowupID: 870098

Follow Up By: Geoffr17 - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 08:09

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 08:09
The old somebody told me i could do it , Who ???.

Years ago you could only get new cars done at the Dealers , in the 90 s this was changed to allow all registered mechanical Repairers to to be able to service them and you retain the Warranty.

How in the hell did you think you could do it yourself and keep your Warranty from Nissan unless you are an actual Registered Repairer.

The dealers don't want to repair faults even when you service with them.

This motor could have failed at 25,000 km and they could refused to repair it .

I don't like the costs of services , but I like my warranty.

You took a short cut to save money , hoping to get through the Warranty period without paying the big bucks , and it failed .
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FollowupID: 870109

Follow Up By: gbc - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 08:26

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 08:26
You sound like the home 'mechanics' on the ford forum who are suffering catastrophic failures due to a $10.00 hose failing which was identified and fixed under a service bulletin 5 years ago, but no bastard told them about it so it must be someone else's problem.....
You're the 'mechanic', you knew better than everybody else, you ended up with a blown motor. Which part of 'your problem' are you not getting?
Were you planning on selling a car with some home made notes inserted in the log book pages?
Call me what you like mate, your issue isn't the engine failure (inexcusable but yet common enough with your brand and I've no doubt you serviced it according to the log book), your issue is the decisions you made and the actions you took which removed you from the umbrella of warranty. Trying to run back under that now tatty and out of date umbrella in the rain is going to be a very difficult process.

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FollowupID: 870110

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 08:41

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 08:41
We will see.
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FollowupID: 870113

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 09:02

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 09:02
From what Nissan have told me if you take your car to say Ultra Tune you won't expect any help if you have a problem in or out of warranty and here we are talking about reasonable life expectancy from a product, not warranty. Ultra tune dont buy their parts or labour from Nissan so as I said,and is the point of this thread that if you don't support Nissan they won't help you full stop. That is my concern. There are laws in place about expecting reasonable and expected life out of a product. Here in my case we simply haven't seen that. That's what I'm taking Nissan to task about and I believe it should be pursued on the grounds of fair trading.
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FollowupID: 870114

Follow Up By: Geoffr17 - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:15

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:15
Then Nissan would be breaking the law . You are not getting or do not want to get the point. YOU ARE NOT A QUALIFIED MOTOR VEHICLE REPAIRER , ULTRA TUNE ARE . As some one else put on this blog , it's all about qualifications and the legal right to officially stamp the service book.
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FollowupID: 870121

Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 13:34

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 13:34
Only if the damage is a result of incorrect service work - if the fault is not relevant to a service item then whoever services the vehicle is irrelevant.

Eg paint is not something that is serviced - if there was a paint failure and the car has never seen a dealer then it is covered by warranty as determined by the Consumer Law not the vehicle manufacturer.

In the case of the cracked block - the reason for the crack needs to be determined - did it fail because another part failed - like a conrod or heat damage - if this was a service item (like not changing oil etc) then the manufacturer could say it is a user issue.

But generally speaking a block is not a serviced item so if it is a crack that just developed then whether the vehicle was serviced or not is irrelevant - the has to be cause and effect.

Remember Consumer Law overrides manufacturer warranty but the issue is enforcing your entitlements under the consumer law - you usually have to sue which is costly and stressful.

If someone does take them on they usually win or more likely settle out of court before hand but you have to have the courage and resources to take them on and most people do not.
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FollowupID: 870130

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 15:25

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 15:25
Finally someone on the same page. Yes I totally agree with you Garry. Well said and that's exactly what I have been trying to say. I have lodged a complaint with fair trading. I will wait and see what they say and then proceed accordingly. I am determined here because I feel I am in the right and have been hard done by. Thanks.
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FollowupID: 870135

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 18:57

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 18:57
I feel for you with the failure and agree it's premature but in choosing to do your own servicing you have to accept the responsibility that comes with now being in a grey area situation

It would be a lot easier to go into bat with a dealer or licenced vehicle repairer log book service record but none the less you will now have to demonstrate via a third party engineer investigation that the failure was premature and not as a result of incorrect servicing etc
I think Nissan are well within their rights to refuse a warranty claim in the first instance with your situation unless you can prove the failure is unrelated to the servicing if the vehicle .
It may seem unfair to you because you think ( and maybe rightly so) that you are capable servicing it correctly but where do you draw the line in the sand as to who is capable of carrying out the service work in order for a warranty to be valid?

To turn this around a minute. Imagine that you made and sold a product and gave a warranty and a maintenance regime.............how would you feel if someone wanted to claim a major warranty on you when you know that the item has been serviced by an unqualified person?

Best of luck with it and I feel sorry for you but ultimately you made the decision to not have the vehicle serviced by an authorised service centre so you are now going to have to fight harder to hopefully get a win
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FollowupID: 870146

Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 12:14

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 12:14
Kirk - Alby is spot on. The whole deal will now hinge on the lawyers arguing over the precise wording in the warranty fine print, as to exactly what passes as "authorised servicing".

A number of years ago, the car manufacturers took the hard line that any servicing done by anyone outside one of their dealerships voided the warranty.

I believe it was someone like Ultratune who took the manufacturers to court over what was identified as the restrictive trade practice of voiding the warranty when the servicing was done by other, LICENCED, QUALIFIED, and APPROVED Motor Vehicle Repairers.

It's possible that that court judgment is listed on the AUSTLII website - or if not, a lawyer could dredge up the judgement.

The licenced repairers won - and the manufacturers were obliged to recognise that servicing - carried out to the manufacturers logbook requirements, by a licenced, qualified and approved Motor Vehicle Repairer - did not void the warranty.

The law is clear on the certification required to be an Approved and Licenced Motor Vehicle Repairer.

You can be the best mechanic in the world - with all the trade qualifications and certificates, and with a highly successful 50 yr record of servicing and repairing - but if you are not approved and licenced as a Motor Vehicle Repairer, your legal argument for a warranty claim will not hold a single millilitre of water.

Motor Vehicle Repairer licensing - W.A.

Nissan have a MORAL obligation to warrant a part that fails due to a manufacturing defect - but being beyond the warranty period - and with a large legal loophole of no record of servicing by a LICENCED repairer, your chances of winning anything on a LEGAL basis, are very slim indeed.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 870162

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 12:33

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 12:33
Probably mate. I get your drift. It will also be up to me to prove the failure was not caused in any way by me or any other servicing for that matter. I am waiting on fair trading first and I'll go from there. I have a person who is "qualified" to write a report to that affect. I have nothing to loose. If I end up with said bill for 9 grand I will just hand the keys over and walk away. Nissan finance can reposses it and sort it out and I know that will lead to another set of laws and red tape but they will have to find me first. I'm not going to go and borrow money to throw after bad. Thanks again for all your help. I will just take it a step at a time. Guess I'm a bit naive but I'm not into that sort of thing. When you ask a dealer if it's OK to service your own vehicle and they say it's fine I didn't bother to look any further. Silly me. I'm just a tradie lol.
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FollowupID: 870163

Follow Up By: Ron N - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 12:59

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 12:59
The AUSTLII website link is below. If you type in "warranty Nissan", you will find a long list of disgruntled people who have fought Nissan over warranty claims.

It can be heavy reading going through the cases, but you can gain an insight as to what will stand up in court, and what won't.
Going to the summary, or conclusion, gives a good overview of each case.

Many of the claims are very doubtful and were dismissed. Some of the claimants won - but they had followed the warranty terms and conditions, and had extensive documentation to present to the courts as evidence.

The courts place much more strength on written evidence than oral evidence - but oral evidence can be put forward in the argument, particularly if there are witnesses who heard the conversations and are prepared to issue statements under oath backing your oral evidence. Hearsay is dismissed out of hand in a court.

Most warranty claims are heard by an Administrative Tribunal - which is a lower form of court set up to hear relatively minor civil claims.
Warranty claim hearings, as you could imagine, form a large part of their work.

You can represent yourself in any court or tribunal hearing, but it's better to engage a lawyer, as they know all the ropes, and they will also advise whether you have any real possibility of success.

AUSTLII - Court cases involving warranty and Nissan

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 870164

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 13:02

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 13:02
If I lost the argument I would be tempted to do what you propose, Kirk. But think carefully. If you walk away and leave Nissan with an undriveable vehicle that needs $9000 to fix it, it's not Nissan that's getting hurt, it's the finance company to whom you owe the rest of your payments. They won't be at all happy with your new arrangement.

You'll get a big black mark on your credit record and may find it difficult in future to finance another vehicle or anything else that requires credit.

If you lose the argument it might be better to try to get the repair financed, get the vehicle back on the road and then sell it

Just sayin', mate. You've been patient so far - keep a cool head, think things through and get qualified advice on all your options.

Cheers
FrankP

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FollowupID: 870165

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 13:36

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 13:36
Yeah Frsnk I know your right. I feel quite confused right now with all the threads on here going in many directions. Do I or don't I? As I said I think I will wait for fair trading to get back to me first. At least if I get car back with an exchange engine it will have warranty on it. And I need a car to plaster "don't buy Nissan" all over the place lol. I don't have the money to even think about a lawyer. I'm just waiting to start work on the cane harvest and have let my money get down a bit and certainly hadn't budgeted for s new engine. Guess I'm screwed like many other Nissan customers. Spread the word!
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FollowupID: 870167

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 13:45

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 13:45
Ron it's not looking good for me is it in respect of me taking on Nissan with no money. They are mongrels and rely on that. They don't seem to care about what it does to their reputation and I guess most people don't say anything even when we know Nissan are at fault and the product is faulty. As said I will see what fair trading say and if it's no chance I guess I will have to find money somewhere to repair car. I have thought long and hard and had many sleepless nights and it makes me wild this can happen to a battler but it's just me in a big world.
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FollowupID: 870169

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 13:46

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 13:46
I’ve been following this with interest as it is always a minefield when it comes to warranty issues, and one never knows when you might be in the same situation.

My observations and assumptions, which may or may not be correct…

One of the key points to remember is that under the Trade Practices Act the vehicle manufacturers’ cannot void the warranty just because you have used someone who is qualified and appropriately licenced to service your vehicle.

But I suspect this is where it becomes ambiguous.

Whilst they can’t void your warranty if servicing requirements are met it doesn’t necessarily mean the manufacturer will meet a warranty claim. Remembering that the Manufacturer and the Dealership are two separate entities – one makes the vehicle, the other sells and services them, they are at arm’s length to each other.

If you service the vehicle at a Dealership it will be difficult for the Manufacturer to suggest that it hasn’t been serviced in accordance with its guidelines, after all you would be entitled to work on the basis that being an authorised representative of the Manufacturer they would do so correctly. And if they didn’t your claim would be against the Dealership and not the Manufacturer.

If you use someone else other than the Dealership the first line of defence is for the Manufacturer (or Dealership) to ask for proof they had the necessary qualifications and equipment to do so properly. It may be that you will need to claim form the person or company that serviced it if there is evidence it wasn’t done correctly.

In my mind there is no doubt that if you go outside the Manufacturers’ authorised servicing centres (the Dealerships) you will find it far more difficult to get warranty work done – not to say you can’t.

As I understand it, when faced with a warranty issue, the Dealership may cover the cost themselves, or seek compensation from the Manufacturer to cover the cost of the repairs – which the Manufacturer may or may not be agreeable to. Remembering, the Manufacturer is only going to cover a Manufacturing fault (clearly), not a claim that points to deficiencies in servicing.

The problem with a cracked-head or engine block is that it could reasonably be argued this has occurred for any number of reasons, and not necessarily a fault in the Manufacture.

Personally, I would put you case to a legal firm that specialises in these types of legal issues and ask them for an assessment of the likelihood of success, and the cost of doing so…

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
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FollowupID: 870170

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 14:12

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 14:12
I am and I know the dealer is convinced that nothing I did or didn't do attributed to the cracked or porous block. I am getting a report from them now saying that all the parts examined showed no signs of overheating or lack of oil which are probably the only things that could crack a block physically. This to me says that the block was faulty from the outset but just took time to show. I'm thinking a bad casting and a bit has flaked off allowing the passage of oil into the cooling system. I am 99.9% convinced of this. I just have to prove it. The vehicle is out of warranty so it's not really a case of warranty or not. It's a case of wether Nissan want to admit and agree to the findings and do the right thing by me. They are using a loophole of me servicing the vehicle to get out of it when We both know it had nothing to do with the failure. I am probably screwed in any case as I am a battler with no money and they have all the cash and resources at hand. It's only the cost of a few tyres on a race car to them but to me it's my whole life stuffed up. Stranded for 3 weeks so far and out of pocket by some huge amount of money to me and a 72000 km old car with a rebuilt motor. And who knows for sure if I do get it back the same won't happen again because it's not 100% certain it is the block. Only that by process of elimination that was the only thing left that could be the problem. Just a debarkle on every front.
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FollowupID: 870172

Reply By: garrycol - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 20:53

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 20:53
Consumer Law overrides anything in a warranty. Look at this closely.

Of course Nissan will deny any responsibility as this throws the issue back to you to deal with.

The ball is in your court and you need to get advice - start with your local consumer affairs, the ACCC help line and read the consumer law to understand your entitlements. Yes the car needs to be serviced correctly but it can be done by anyone as long it is correct using suitable (not OME consumables) - will now be up to you to prove but if you go to court it will be up to Nissan not you to prove your work caused the issue.

Good luck it is not an easy process. Because of the grenade era a few years back, Nissan have it down to a fine art on how to dodge their responsibilities.

Garry
AnswerID: 600754

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 21:01

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 21:01
Thanks so much Garry. Feeling pretty down right now about it all but you have just given me a bit of a rev up. I know I'm right as far as a clean conscience goes but I'll have to prove it. My report to fair trading went in today. I just don't have money to pay for lawyers or to fix the car but I guess legal aide is there so will look at that also. Cheers.
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FollowupID: 870096

Reply By: Shaker - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 22:03

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 22:03
What is your normal function as a mechanical fitter, does it include training & working on modern diesel vehicles, do you have the necessary service equipment to service your vehicle & check computer codes?
These will be questions that will be asked.

AnswerID: 600758

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, May 30, 2016 at 22:07

Monday, May 30, 2016 at 22:07
If you need codes checked you take it to dealer don't you?
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FollowupID: 870103

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 08:38

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 08:38
Yes as a matter of fact I worked for Cummins for many years and diagnosed codes and many other problems. As I said I consider myself qualified. I was telling Nissan dealer what to do and they were asking me. They are still after 3 weeks not sure of the problem and the cause. Just that we have tried all else so must be the block. Hmmm!
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FollowupID: 870112

Reply By: TomH - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 07:35

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 07:35
One thing I believe those motors were fussy about was the correct oil. A neighbour who also serviced his own vehicle and it blew up was admonished by the dealer for using different oil to what was recommended.

They did do a semi warranty repair but told him to use the proper oil in the new one or else.

He, being old school knew better than Nissan and used the oil he had used in old school motors, to his detriment. The vehicle was the updated model after the Grenades.
AnswerID: 600762

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 08:34

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 08:34
I did use the correct oil. Not Nissan but equivalent. And let's face it Nissan oil and filters and most other parts are made by some other company and badged Nissan anyway. Filters are made by filter companies and oil is made by oil companies. Also if oil was wrong you would more likely find premature wear in bearings etc. they are going to reuse my Pistons etc in the recond engine if that ever happens.
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FollowupID: 870111

Follow Up By: TomH - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 09:36

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 09:36
Equiv parts. Yes well when I had a Toyota Landcruiser I was tempted to use different filters(equiv to Toyota parts) but then one of the guys on Lcool cut up a Toyota oil filter and a very popular brand that fitted.
What a difference. Stopped me from using them. Its the specs they are made to that can be quite different despite the fact that they fit
With oils I have 2 VW's at present and only ever use VW APPROVED oil.
Not equiv viscosity or anything else. Why because if you have an engine problem VW will do an oil test and if its the wrong stuff Bye bye.
Same happened to my neighbour but lucky for him the dealer was friendly.
I have worked in the building industry for years and consider myself qualified to build a house, however if push comes to shove my experience is worth nothing if I am asked for my papers to say so.
Unfortunately you may be in the same boat, capable of doing the job but nothing to legally say so.
Not belittling your ability in any way but this is what it comes down to today Have the documents, they matter more than 40 years of doing the job.
Unfortunate but true as I have found out.
3
FollowupID: 870116

Reply By: vk1dx - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 09:47

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 09:47
First let me ask you a question. Who would you prefer to work on your car, a bloke from the local brick works who does his own DIY service and repairs or someone approved by the cars makers. I know who I would use.

It's quite simple. In warranty you go by the book and get someone that the manufacture will recognise as qualified. And keep every single receipt and letter/note. If something happens then you are covered just as we were. And at 230,000 kms to boot. It's not the money. It's because we had shown with all the service and maintenance receipts etc that they had screwed up. Not me.

We have a Maxima and one very hot hot day early last it started to make noises like a chaff cutter with nuts and bolts in it. We purchased it brand new in 1999. Many years out of warranty. BUT we had always had it serviced and repaired by the same Nissan shop. Every single one and on time plus those beyond warranty.

A leg from a spark plug was broken and bits missing. The spark plug had blown out because it was cross threaded. Nissan picked up the whole rebuild and towing costs. No court or legal stuff. Just sitting around the table with every single receipt for the car and a properly stamped log book with their stamp on every entry.

It wasn't that you had not spent money at their place, I believe it is because you were not an authorised service agent for Nissan. You did not have any proof that they were at fault ie maybe a bad batch of oil from them. None - not even a receipt for parts etc from them.

It's a cruel world in business and if you don't follow the rules, as you obviously didn't, then you pay when things go wrong.

We did and now we have a perfectly rebuilt motor in our 15+ year old limo. A local top of the line shop rebuilt the motor for them.

It's hard but sorry Kirk, your cost to bear.

Phil.

AnswerID: 600764

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 10:30

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 10:30
I understand what your saying but I asked the question when I bought the car new if there was a problem servicing it myself. Was told no problems if your qualified. Now I'm not a bricklayer I'm a diesel mechanic with many years experience in diagnostics and repair. No I didn't get that in writing because I'm too trusting and expect everyone else to be like me. It is a cruel world out there. Dog eat dog unfortunately.

I was told straight out by Nissan that they were not helping me because I didn't contribute to that cost by using them for parts and service.

I guess now I will have to prove that anything I did did not contribute to a cracked block. I know I didn't and it's pretty obvious. Even the dealers service manager agrees.

Nissan have a bad name now over the problems with the Navaras so you would think they would want to do the right thing. Not so. They just don't seem to care.
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FollowupID: 870118

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:04

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:04
The issue I see is that even though you are an excellent diesel mechanic etc et you are not "authorised nor approved by the cars maker".

Stinks to high heaven and back again, I agree. But coming from an exacting industry like space technology I can definitely see their point.

A real pain isn't it. Best of luck. A lesson learnt.

Phil

PS Extra dribble deleted.
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FollowupID: 870119

Reply By: cookie1 - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 10:37

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 10:37
Good luck, make sure you let us all know how you get on - please!

I owned 5 x Nissan Patrols from the 80's up until 4 years ago, I had all my new Patrols (3) serviced by the Nissan dealers and a couple of times had them redo the services as upon post service inspection by me it was clear that the servicing had not been fully done.

In fact one dealer stripped a thread on the AC bolt and snapped off the head, fortunately the mechanic???, put the broken bits in my vehicle console as when I had my "discussions" with the dealer who wanted me to pay for their mistakes I pointed out some metallurgical facts to them, (fortunately I was working with some clever engineers at the time), it was clear that a rattle gun had been used.

The last time I had an issue was the Clutch wearing out at 29,000km and apparently I didn't know how to drive the vehicle, after owning 5 of them and never prematurely replacing a clutch.

I now drive a Toyota, yes all vehicles can have issues and indeed I did have an issue with the power steering rack which Toyota fixed under warranty with me contributing to the labour as it was 4 months out of warranty.

Good luck bud and again please let us know how you get on.

cheers
AnswerID: 600766

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:15

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:15
I will certainly let you all know the outcome for sure. One step at a time now. See what fair trading think and what they need me to do. I have seen so many times people who have marked oil drain bolts and checked after the service was done to find the marks still in place. And then half the time work is done by the apprentice who is too scared to admit it if they break something.
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FollowupID: 870122

Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 10:54

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 10:54
Kirk,

While I can absolutely understand why you would choose to do your own servicing I have always had log book servicing done by the dealership for no other reason than to cover myself in the case of a failure during the warranty period or soon after.
The Toyota we currently own came with capped price servicing as part of the deal when we bought the car. It runs out of warranty (3 years) in August of this year.
After that the only time the dealership will see it again is if/when we decide to update.
As far as your problem goes the only 2 reasons I could see for an engine block to crack is faulty manufacturing or massive overheating. You would or should know if it has ever overheated. If this has ever happened with the modern engine management systems I would have thought that such an event would have shown up and been logged as historical by the ECU.
A suitable code reader should be able to access this info unless it has been wiped.
If no such code has ever been logged the only conclusion I would think any reasonable person could come to was that it was a manufacturing fault which has existed since new and shown up with time and use.

I spent my working years rebuilding, servicing, fault finding mainly diesel engines from 5 to 5000 HP so I've got a rough idea what makes do what they do.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 600769

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:10

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:10
Totally agree. Even when it failed the temp gauge never went out of the normal range and never has at any time in its life. If in fact it is a cracked or porous block as the dealer thinks then it is 100% faulty manufacture. On inspection and I have seen it every part is normal as I said above. No cylinder scoring, head warping or head gasket leaks.
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FollowupID: 870120

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:24

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:24
This is a reply written by another very knowledgable member on another thread relating to the same thing.

That is pi$$-weak, and totally unacceptable - both on lifespan, and the cost of the repair.
You need to start raising the Consumer Law conditions with them, as regards "acceptable quality", and "fitness for purpose". This engine meets neither.

Consumer Law - Motor Vehicles

A lot of people do not understand that the end of the manufacturers warranty period is not something concrete.
Warranty extends to satisfactory life past the official end of the manufacturers statutory period, if the performance of the vehicle falls well below an acceptable standard.

At the very least, you should expect around 250,000kms as a satisfactory engine life.
At 72,000kms, you have had only 28% of the expected satisfactory engine life, and at the very most, that % is the maximum that you should be expected to contribute to the repair - and the repair cost should not reach $7000, either.

A brand new head and top overhaul gaskets should be no more than about $1500, and about the same in labour at the the outside, making $3000 a more acceptable repair figure.

Get a quote from an independent repairer (in writing) and use that to hammer Nissan on the repair cost, if it's excessive.

AnswerID: 600771

Follow Up By: Geoffr17 - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:12

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:12
Sorry Kirk , but the point is you never had a manufacturers warranty from the minute you decided to service the Nissan and not use a recognised service center.

Why did you do it ?, even if you thought you were capable of doing it.

I'm sorry , but everybody knows that will void your warranty.
1
FollowupID: 870123

Follow Up By: Jackolux - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:31

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:31
Yep it's BS alright , regards the reply from someone on another forum , if it's a cracked block a new head , is not going to fix it . What actually is wrong , losing coolant ? .
Servicing it your self can't crack the block .
I don't know who told you doing your own service was ok , but I bet it wasn't Nissan Australia . A mate bought a new Dmax , he is a fully qualified mechanic but was told he could not service it if he wanted to retain his warranty .

When it comes to a warranty claim , it doesn't matter what make it is , they will all do their best to reject the claim , even if it's still in the warranty period .
1
FollowupID: 870125

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:46

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:46
As I said the dealer told me it was ok. Didn't get it in writing tho. I didn't say anything about a head fixing cracked block. I said head etc was fine which indicated that the cracked block was not caused by overheating. I said it was caused by a manufacturing fault clearly. The initial problem was that engine pumped all its oil into the coolant. Head and coolers etc all been tested. Was decided by process of elimination that block was cracked or probably porous from manufacture.
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FollowupID: 870128

Follow Up By: Jackolux - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 14:03

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 14:03
( A brand new head and top overhaul gaskets should be no more than about $1500, and about the same in labour at the the outside, making $3000 a more acceptable repair figure )

It's just the statement about . It really has no relevance to your case .
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FollowupID: 870131

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 15:27

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 15:27
Not relevant at this state I know but I included the entire thread to mainly get my point across about the law regarding fair trading. It's developed now to the block.
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FollowupID: 870136

Reply By: Capt. Wrongway - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:12

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:12
I purchased a new Y61 Patrol in 2014. After it's first "book" service all subsequent scheduled services were done by my son. He is a qualified and licensed motor mechanic and is in the process of starting his own business.

All required services, as indicted in the Nissan service schedule book are are done and signed by my son, including his license number. No stamp as yet as he does not yet have his own business or ABN. ( no stamp is required if he is operating as a "sole trader'. Only a current mechanics license is needed. )

All parts & consumables are purchased from the local Nissan Service Centre and all receipts kept.

This method will not void any manufactures warranty as written within the NSW consumers laws.

I'm not saying that should a major problem happen with the vehicle during the warranty period that Nissan will not "throw up hurdles", as this is their normal "slimey" costumer service, but if you follow this method, a good corporate law solicitor will "nail them to the wall".
* In the past, I have found that Nissan will stand their ground until solicitors or barristers get involved.

If you have a legitimate warranty claim, don't give in, fight the bastards.

Capt.


AnswerID: 600773

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:42

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:42
Thanks heaps. Your post and the one below give me some hope. Better than all the negativity dished out saying I'm an idiot for doing servicing myself and I should have known it would void warranty. I asked the dealer if I could do servicing myself and yes maybe I'm stupid but didn't know anything and had no indication it would void warranty.
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FollowupID: 870126

Follow Up By: Tim - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 01:22

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 01:22
I think this could be a key issue. Licenced Vs Qualified. I am a licenced tradie but the licence is above and beyond the qualification you get through tafe. Could that be an issue?

Tim
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FollowupID: 870155

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 06:26

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 06:26
I think the issue in these types of cases goes beyond whether you are licensed or qualified, but whether you are equipped to perform a service, demonstrating that you can actually follow the "book service" and that parts used are genuine or approved.

Large organisations like Dealerships can easily demonstrate this, but you as an individual will potentially have more difficulty and this is what Nissan (their Lawyers) will exploit, putting the onus on you to demonstrate that the cracked head has not occurred due to an oversight in servicing.

As I said elsewhere in this thread, rightly or wrongly so, Nissan will make sure your costs in pursuing them will be more than the cost of you rectifying the problem.
That isn't to say you shouldn't pursue them - but expect a fight as they have more at stake than you have.

Good luck either way, Baz - The Landy
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FollowupID: 870157

Reply By: Member - pete g1 - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:17

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 12:17
life's a bitch and then N issan appear..!!

Makes a mockery of their corporate image with the mega bucks they are wasting on Aust "motor racing"..who goes out & buys a current N sedan based on the results of 5 yrs of motor sport results ..oops lack of results ???....sorry dont let me start on that topic !!

Yet there's a home grown well established core (60+ years) of committed N 4x4 owners, far in excess of the tin top population...

Mate surely one of the squillion Nissan 4x4 owners can initiate a Save Kirk crowd funding exercise ??

Come on you Nissan owners, this could be your issue on another Nissan mechanical "non-failure" .. one in all in.

K, is it not possible to expand this issue on other dedicated N or generic 4x4 web sites ??

I appreciate K's immeadiate pain is no wheels, squeezed on $'s etc, plus challenged by an unsympathetic corporate entity..total head %$%%@@#%.. but hey ..any pro-bono legal beagles out there willing to give him a hand ??

K, the sun will shine again ol' son, it comes up every morning, every day is a new start.

Dont give up mate !!

AnswerID: 600774

Reply By: Iza B - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 15:18

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 15:18
Is the problem that the vehicle is out of warranty or that you want Nissan to ignore the end of the warranty period because the cost of repair is so high?

If the cause of the cracked block can be shown to be a manufacturing fault, Nissan does not have a leg to stand on. Who did what servicing is immaterial if the vehicle is out of warranty and cause of the failure cannot be made clear. I am happy to agree that a cracked block should not happen at 72 K km but if servicing practice cannot be ruled out in the causal analysis, Nissan is not going to repair for nothing.

Iza
AnswerID: 600778

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 15:32

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 15:32
I fully understand that and servicing has nothing to do with the fact the block is cracked or more than likely porous casting from the factory. I'm not silly enough to expect a new block if it had a Conrod through it due to a big end failure from
Lack of or wrong oil. This can clearly be seen from the condition of other parts. All good as new thanks.
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FollowupID: 870138

Reply By: Baz - The Landy - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 16:17

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 16:17
What you are up against is the financial cost of taking on a major Corporation who will end up making you spend the cost of repair in legal bills, because they can, to ensure you walk away. If you don’t walk away they may look to settle the matter confidentially – but you’ll end up out of pocket versus just buying the new engine.

The issue is you are not the issue – the issue is opening the flood-gate to many other claims given the Nissan is prone to this problem.

It is totally wrong, but it comes down to how principled you want to be and what cost you are willing to expend to achieve that…

To some extent it is the Law that is letting you down, and enabling Nissan, and other major corporations to exploit it.

Good luck however you proceed.

Cheers, Baz – The Landy
AnswerID: 600779

Reply By: skulldug - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 18:22

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 18:22
Kirk,

Don't worry about the haters. They wake up toxic and fester as the day goes on.

Can I suggest you document everything you can. Your quals, experience, service work, dates, parts, receipts etc. Get some advice from a legal service or lawyer and lay out your case in a reasonable but assertive way.

If you don't get anywhere, at least you will know you did what you could.

Good luck with the fight but recognise when to move on.

Skull
AnswerID: 600787

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 18:40

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 18:40
Thanks for that skull. Starting to get some positive feedback. Been stressed to the max and comments like yours really help. Will see what fair trading say and take their advice. Have every move in a diary. It's got so complicated it's hard to put it all in perspective but Im working on it. Cheers mate.
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FollowupID: 870145

Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 21:43

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 21:43
The ACCC have a consumer hotline to provide advice - see the Link Here

HERE is the ACCC link to the process to get advice and make a complaint. I have used tem before and they provide lots of advice before starting a process
1
FollowupID: 870153

Reply By: Athol W1 - Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 20:45

Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 20:45
Kirk
May I suggest that you get a Consultant Automotive Mechanical Engineer involved to give you an assessment and opinion. Should his opinion be positive and to your advantage, and he is prepared to support you in court, then it is very unlikely that the Nissan dealer will get any support from any engineer to argue against him.


Remember that it is the dealer that you purchased the vehicle from who is responsible for any warranty claims, they then take action to recover their costs from Nissan. Refer to Australian Consumer Law and the ACCC.


There was a similar situation reported on www.lcool.org where the engine had major failure at some 160k which totally destroyed the engine on a 200TTD, (seized big end bearings, broken internal oil sprays, damaged main bearings and pistons etc) the engineer stated that the engine had been run without oil at its last dealer service (some several thousand k's before the failure) and this was the cause. The report indicated that Toyota engineers did go to court but refused to participate when they become aware of the Engineer's report and his presence. (Refer www.lcool.org look for thread no 33490, you do have to be a member but it costs nothing to join)


Hope this helps and good luck.
Regards
Athol
AnswerID: 600794

Reply By: swampy - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 01:09

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 01:09
Hi mate
Just give` m hell.
Went thru similar with Ford and Toro equipment .
These big car/machinery companies will do what ever they want .
The Toro used litres and litres of oil from day one .
I deglazed the engine myself $800 with parts from usa

The Fraud Ranger [tries to impersonate a reliable car ]
gearbox at 60,000thou changes gear poorly [course very notchy ]
blown head gasket not fixed engine starts really rough then clears 70,000km
A whinning power str pump normal since new b... sh.t
Tailshaft spline flogged out since 40,000km
Wheel nuts that are seized on and snapped wheel studs
Ya wouldn`t buy another would ya

Kirk L
Don`t give up
Cheers Swamp
AnswerID: 600799

Reply By: camperman - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 02:05

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 02:05
Kirk nissan is totally right, you can't back yard your services and expect any car dealer to honour your warranty.
AnswerID: 600800

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 06:52

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 06:52
I think you need to read the whole story and put it in context before making a comment like that. Cheers
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FollowupID: 870158

Reply By: 9900Eagle - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 16:08

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 16:08
Kirk,

Looks like many jumped onto the warranty side of your problem and didn't read what has happened with your engine. By your words it obviously has a manufacturing fault that should be rectified at their cost.

You may get a law firm that will take on the case for nix. Many years ago my son was involved in an accident and because he had no insurance, the other persons insurance company demanded for the loss of their vehicle. We went and got legal advise and the firm said they would take it on with a no win no pay arrangement.

Not only did they win, but the insurance company had to pay my son $80000 for damage to his knee. The law firm then took a percentage which wasn't very much and his only costs were for medical bills around $5000.

The company is a local mob nearly opposite the police station in Sydney St. Won't mention their name but that should be enough for you to find them. They will tell you what you need to do, and if it is worth while for them to take it on.

All the best.

AnswerID: 600813

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 17:16

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 17:16
Mate thanks so much. I'm getting a lot of negatives on exploroz but also a lot of great info like your post. I'm thinking in the long run justice should win here. I'm hoping so anyway. It would be s pretty f....d world if companies could get away with this sort of thing. It's just not right what's going on here and I'm sure I'll get there in the finish. Thanks.
0
FollowupID: 870174

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 18:52

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 18:52
Kirk. The pity is that vehicle manufacturers can walk away from known problems with their products with impunity. It is only when there is a safety concern do they own up and recall.

Those people I mentioned may not be able to help you, but they will point you in the right direction. I don't know where this will lead, but I do wish you well in finding a solution.



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FollowupID: 870178

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 19:00

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 19:00
Thanks so much mate. Right now I'm just getting pissed and will look at it again in the morning. Cheers bud. Having one for ya.
0
FollowupID: 870179

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 19:34

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2016 at 19:34
Just another one from the news today.

Modern vehicles and warranty
0
FollowupID: 870181

Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, Jun 02, 2016 at 22:54

Thursday, Jun 02, 2016 at 22:54
The case below is pretty representative of Nissans attitude. A bloke bought a new Nissan 350Z in September 2006 and just one month later the car broke down with an engine problem.

The engine was knocking and had used a substantial amount of oil.
The Nissan dealership promptly decided the problem was in the clutch (!!??) and after pulling the gearbox out, they realised there was nothing wrong with the gearbox and clutch.

Then the dealership examined the engine, decided it was damaged and needed replacement - but it would take weeks to source one from Japan!
The owner refused the offer as he wanted to speak to someone senior within Nissan - and then Nissan told him the engine had been topped up with oil, and was right to go!

The owner wasn't happy, the engine was still using vast amounts of oil - yet Nissan claimed there was nothing wrong with it, and refused to replace the engine!

After 7000kms and constant oil burning and less-than-satisfactory engine performance, the owner demanded that Nissan refund him the full purchase price, as it was obvious he'd been sold a lemon.

Nissan refused the refund and instead offered him a new engine. The owner argued that that offer was less than satisfactory to him - because he was convinced, the new engine was likely to be a dog as well - so they went to court over it.
The court case is long and involved - and it's interesting to see that 60 other cases of major engine problems with the 350Z were raised and discussed.

Of course, Nissan explained that some of the engine problems mentioned were in the U.S. - and the U.S. is not Australia, and specifications could be different - all the usual huffing and puffing and corporate BS.

Bottom line was, the court ordered Nissan to supply a brand new engine with a new factory warranty - and the bloke lost his claim for a full refund.

The U.S. has a "Lemon Law" whereby you can get a full refund, or a new vehicle, if your chariot is deemed a Lemon (it has to have a certain number of faults over a set period of time to qualify as a Lemon, as I understand).

There has been talk of a Lemon Law being introduced here, but it doesn't gain votes, so no pollie has any real interest in pushing it at present.
I guess it needs pressure from someone like the Motorists Party to introduce a Bill for a Lemon Law.

Anyway, here's the relevant court case. It makes interesting reading.

Askounis VS Nissan Aust - engine failure in new Nissan 350Z

Cheers, Ron.
1
FollowupID: 870234

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, Jun 02, 2016 at 23:21

Thursday, Jun 02, 2016 at 23:21
That's interesting reading in itself Ron. Your obviously a fast typist lol. Yeah sounds like Nissan are out to make lives miserable for s lot of people and miserable for a long time rather than dealing with the problem and sending the customer on his way thinking Nissan are ok. I don't mind a problem and know things happen but the company has to do the right thing to fix the problem. The old saying the customer is always right has obviously never been heard at Nissan. All I can say to everybody is don't buy one because if you have a problem they will not look after you. More people like me need to spread the word and I will. If I get the car back it will be driven around with signs on it and guess what they will say.
1
FollowupID: 870238

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 06:31

Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 06:31
Ron / Kirk

Interesting read and highlights a point I have made a couple of times, there is nothing right about Nissan's approach, but they'll force you through so many hoops that you might end up worse off then just buying a new engine.

And I get it - it isn't right.

But Nissan isn't going to admit to a problem otherwise they might be replacing hundred's of engines (from what I've read - they should be), but the lawyers and accountants will be saying "hold the line", nothing wrong with the engine.



Good luck, Baz
1
FollowupID: 870242

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 09:11

Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 09:11
I just t read through that article too and there are a lot of similarities. Mainly with Nissan being difficult to get along with and its been going on since Jesus was a boy. I think in my case I will have to prove that my servicing didn't contribute in any way to the failure. That the failure was in fact a faulty part from new which just took time to materialise. I don't warranty or anything should come into it. Just the facts of the matter which are that a block should never have this problem wether new or 72000 km old. All I gotta do is work out a way and I hope fair trading will help me. That's the first step. One month without a car on Tuesday. Not real good.
1
FollowupID: 870248

Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 09:51

Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 09:51
Yes, what comes out of the Nissan court cases, as regards major defects and the resulting warranty claims, is precisely the same corporate stance every time - as I mentioned in the other thread.

1. The standard tired old line - "You're the only one having this problem! Every other vehicle we've ever sold is just fine!"

Then when you do a little research, you can find dozens of others suffering similar problems.
Getting the other owners of those other failures to either come forward, or supply details, adds serious weight to your case.
It's interesting to note that copies of discussions from websites where other owners complained about and detailed their problems, were allowed as court evidence.

2. The standard tired old line - "The damage has been caused by the owner/operator. It wasn't a manufacturing/assembly defect".

This one's a classic, and often difficult to prove.
You can prove you weren't at fault by providing evidence of proper servicing, evidence of your vehicle use being within acceptable limits - and by being completely honest with your evidence-giving.

Then you need to provide as much evidence as possible from other qualified people as to the precise cause of the failure. This is where the independent engineers assessment is crucial.

3. The standard tired old line - "The vehicle is out of warranty, we have no obligation whatsoever to supply anything".

This is a complete furphy, as Consumer Law has already proven via many court cases, that defective manufacturing or assembly is still covered, beyond the statutory warranty period, if the item fails long before what would normally be expected, as a proper or normal life span of the item.

4. The standard tired old line - "The evidence of other failures supplied by the complainant, refers to products that are obsolete, not sold in this country, or have different specifications - so the evidence is not relevant."

Nissan have a problem with their QC - that much is evident. If Nissan have holes in their QC programmes, faulty items such as porous engine blocks, and porous cylinder heads, slip through.

The chief engineer of Nissan admitted that Nissan has had QC problems with the previous Navara - this was in the new Navara ute review, that I linked to.

With this evidence, you then have a court-admissable evidence claim, that the company has a record of regular QC failures - admitted by the Nissan chief engineer himself.

QC failures are common within companies - but they will always refuse to officially admit it.
To do so, would produce an avalanche of warranty claims, that they can otherwise bluff, bluster, and lie their way out of, on a regular basis.

The corporate culture is to lie constantly to protect the corporations profits, and to protect the "good name and image" of the corporation.
Customers are at the bottom of the list when it comes to admitting corporate fault, and supplying compensation accordingly.

These lying corporations need to be exposed and taken to task over their attitude that the customer is always wrong.

Unfortunately, as with so many unjust things in this world, you need to fight, have a strong determination that you are in the right, and have patience and persistence, to ensure that you win against their constant rejection of just and rightful claims.

Cheers, Ron.
0
FollowupID: 870253

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 10:23

Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 10:23
Thanks Ron. I think we have established all that and what I need to do. Nissan did say they had never seen this one before but i do personally know of one other case however I haven't been able to find anything on the net about other block failures. As you say that would help greatly I'm sure.
0
FollowupID: 870256

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 10:29

Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 10:29
Ron posted

"1. The standard tired old line - "You're the only one having this problem! Every other vehicle we've ever sold is just fine!"

Then when you do a little research, you can find dozens of others suffering similar problems.
Getting the other owners of those other failures to either come forward, or supply details, adds serious weight to your case.
It's interesting to note that copies of discussions from websites where other owners complained about and detailed their problems, were allowed as court evidence."

I had a 2007 120 Series Prado with an early D4D engine. These were prone to injector issues which if not detected would destroy the engine. Early signs of the issue developing were an abnormally loud diesel rattle when the engine was cold.

Some dealers were on the ball and responded to owner complaints and had a fix applied under warranty. Some were not, and diagnosed crook engine mounts, or "it's a normal diesel rattle", etc and the problem was left to develop.

I was lucky with my dealer and by chance I saw the internal bill - $7000 for new injectors, new high pressure pipework and labour.

A guy on one of the Prado forums was not so lucky and his engine failed. His dealer and Toyota obfuscated and in short, refused to help, saying bad fuel, wrong fuel, owners fault, yadda, yadda, all the stuff Ron quoted.

The thread on the forum about this issue went to over 100 pages. The guy contacted every person who had reported the issue and who had had their vehicle fixed under warranty and asked for a simple statement to that effect. He took Toyota to court and with those statements, plus the pages off the forum, won his case and expenses and got a free new motor.

So it can be done.

Cheers
FrankP

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FollowupID: 870257

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 10:38

Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 10:38
Cheers Frank. I did look at several forums and dialled in navara block failures and couldn't find one case. I better look some more.
0
FollowupID: 870258

Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 12:40

Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 12:40
Kirk, you have to use a wide range of search words to find all the information. Use "navara porous castings", "navara block failure", "YD25 failure", YD25 problems", "D40 engine problems", and so on.

In the link to the forum below, the last poster has indicated porous block casting problems with the Navara engines. The U.K. seems to have more than their share of faulty Navara engines.
However, I'm not sure where the Pommy Navara engines are built, it could be a European factory, rather than Thailand, where our Navaras are built.

Difflock - Navara questions

More D40 Navara complaints - and the standard Nissan refusal to acknowledge any problem. No engine problems listed here, unfortunately - just a list of other failures.

Whirlpool forum - Navara D40 problems.

Product Review has a substantial list of Navara complaints. Haven't found any specific block porosity complaints here yet.

Product Review - Navara reliability reports

A long list of Nissan Navara recalls and common faults below - but no engine block problems mentioned ...

Nissan Navara recalls

More Navara reliability Q&A. Interesting to see the comment from the bloke (Georgealmighty) who worked at a Nissan place. His opinion of Navara build quality is pretty low.

Nissan Navara Q&A

Basically, I can't find any Asian or Australian/NZ complaints about Navara block casting problems - even though there's lots of other problems listed.

It is possible your problem isn't in the block, but in some other area of the engine, that's allowing combustion gases into the coolant.

Cheers, Ron.
0
FollowupID: 870265

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 14:08

Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 14:08
Your a legend. Mine was Spain built. There are both Thailand and Spain in Australia. I looked again under a heap of words and still came up
Empty handed. Guess I don't spend enough time on the net. I saw some YouTube videos from a guy in England who repairs navara engines. He talked about all the other problems but nothing on porous blocks. I emailed him and he said he had never seen it except on engines that have frozen the coolant. Thank you once more.
0
FollowupID: 870268

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 14:13

Friday, Jun 03, 2016 at 14:13
My engine actually pump the oil into the coolant. Every other engine component that contains oil and water such as the oil cooler, cylinder head and turbo have been fully tested. The only thing not tested was the block as Nissan decided it would be too hard and a fault even tho present may not show up. I know the other case in Australia that I know of was Xrayed and there was a crack way down below the top face of the block between an oil and water gallery to the head. I was thinking of getting my engine and stripping it completely and getting that done but the dealer has concluded that it is the block
0
FollowupID: 870269

Reply By: Blown4by - Sunday, Jun 05, 2016 at 21:52

Sunday, Jun 05, 2016 at 21:52
This may be of some assistance. Re the Ultra Tunes, Auto Masters, K-Mart Auto Service, etc. the majority of these outlets do not employ qualified trades persons. Re Repairers Certificates, etc. they are just a License and are in no way a qualification. My understanding is that if you log all the service work you carry out recording the kilometres traveled, date, work performed, etc. and have trace ability of where and when you purchased filters, oil etc. required to carry out the service work then you have good case to get them to prove that what you did caused the engine problem. This understanding has been confirmed a number of times by Dealers when I have purchased new vehicles which I have always serviced myself so I know it is done correctly and at the correct price. In fact one Dealer told me when I presented my own service sheet that I had drawn up for one particular vehicle for them to check, that my service sheet was more comprehensive than their own. When my Patrol was under warranty each time it was due for service the selling Dealing printed out their service sheet for me to follow and to ensure all work was done to their schedule. Good Luck.
AnswerID: 601025

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:39

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:39
Got phone call from fair trading. Sounds like a waste of time and tax payers money. All they can do is tell Nissan they have been naughty and should do right thing. Can't even represent me in court. They are writing to Nissan for what it's worth then it will go to tribunal between me and Nissan. 5 weeks today stranded without a vehicle!
AnswerID: 601308

Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 14:57

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 14:57
Yes exactly this is the issue with the new Consumer Law - has all the rules that very much work in the customers favour but they themselves have no power to enforce (not even the ACCC which cannot apply fines themselves but have to get the courts to do it) - you have to take them to court yourself.

If Consumer Affairs have said you have a case you will most likely win but are you prepared for the costs and grief - maybe get a lawyer to put the advice to Nissan and threaten them hoping to bluff them - of course you can sue and also go for the damages and costs etc as well.

Unfortunately might has right on their side. - sad fact of life.

Good luck

Garry
1
FollowupID: 870737

Reply By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 13:03

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 13:03
Shows just how lucky we were. 200,000 kms (approx) , blown engine and they fixed it for free. Totally buck shee, including a 150kms tow back home!! Every service and all parts since new plus the car was supplied by them. Oils, filters etc etc. Everything. And my wife had every receipt and document, report, quote etc showing it all.

They were the only ones to replace and supply every single worn part such as spark plugs and one plug + leg came loose, blew apart about 2 years after being changed and blew the engine. Loyalty does sometimes work. DIY -- well not always.

Best of luck. I hope they help out .

Phil
AnswerID: 601309

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 15:34

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 15:34
Nissan replaced my brother's D40 engine at no cost when it broke a timing chain, he bought the vehicle secondhand & had never set foot in a Nissan dealership until the motor blew!

2
FollowupID: 870739

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 16:53

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 16:53
Exactly mate.

It just shows that the right thing can be done for the right reason. No need to tear Nissan apart just because one has a bad time with them.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 870742

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 17:12

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 17:12
They even rang him the day before he was meant to pick it up to tell him the mechanic wasn't happy with the harmonic balancer & a new one had been ordered, but don't worry Nissan were paying for it too. His vehicle was well out of warranty & all he paid for was oil & a filter!

1
FollowupID: 870744

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 17:28

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 17:28
Well how does that work. They deny me but do an engine for a guy who didn't even buy the car new. This is nothing to do with my story and Phil I don't know how you come to that conclusion. The right reasons were nothing to do with warranty or anything else. Just that there was a recall on that problem. A manufacturing fault same as mine is. Just that there haven't been as many porous blocks as timing chain failures. Simple as that.
0
FollowupID: 870748

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 18:49

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 18:49
I will say it again then. You broke the rules of the warranty. You serviced the car when you weren't an authorised service agent. You were not what one would call a loyal customer. You rarely bothered to purchase anything from them. Why then should they go beyond the warranty and help you.

I don't know why they changed the motor. Maybe the family were good customers. Two of our sons dealt with the local dealer. I don't know but I do believe by your own admission that you stuffed up.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 870752

Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 21:45

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 21:45
Kirk

While both examples may be manufacturing faults the main difference is one has happened often enough to warrant a recall the other has not been proven to be a manufacturing fault (by the manufacturer).

A vehicle recall will apply to who ever owns the vehicle - even if it has be on sold 2, 3 or a dozen times. A vehicle recall is just that, a recall. The manufacturers will send a letter to the first registered owner OR if you regularly have the vehicle serviced at a dealership and they have your details. After that it is up to you to read the papers, listen to the news etc to find out there is a recall.

In your case it may be a warranty issue, if the vehicle was still in warranty. Unfortunately for you the vehicle is not in warranty.

Manufacturers/dealership will display loyalty to those who show loyalty to them by getting the vehicle serviced by them. In your case you have not been shown this loyalty. Why? Because you haven't shown them loyalty. You didn't even buy your service consumables from them.

Unfortunately for you the fight you have ahead is based on two arguments.

The first that the vehicle was not damaged due to you servicing rthe vehicle. That the vehicle was serviced regularly and according to manufacturers specifications (correct service intervals, correct consumable specifications and adjustments to correct tolerances). This is proven by log book services by authorised service agents and certified as being correctly done (by the application of signature and company stamp). By your own admission, you can't prove this.

The second is that the engine failed due to a manufacturing fault specifically "a porous block". You will have to prove this not the manufacturer. You will have to pay to have the testing done. You will have to pay to lodge a civil action against the manufacturer. If you win, you will get your new motor - that is it. If you want to claim damages that is a seperate fight. If you lose, you will have your legal costs and a good percentage of the legal costs of the manufacturer awarded against you and you will still need to fix the vehicle and you will have spent God knows how much on testing and proving your case.

Take the advice of your own signature block...

You went very smart! You can't win this fight so runaway - fast.

Expend your energy on fixing your vehicle.

Cheers

Anthony

VKS 3539
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FollowupID: 870761

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 16:56

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 16:56
I think how my brother got his out of warranty motor replaced was that the dealer wouldn't take no for an answer. Nissan rejected the claim initially, but the dealer went in to bat for him again & won!
Nissan have a history of inconsistency with warranty claims, 3 friends of mine with 4.2TD GU Patrols had fifth gear failures, one got all the parts free, the second got a brand new gearbox supplied & fitted, whilst the third who was the only one of the three to have bought the vehicle new & had full Nissan dealer service history, including reported discoloured gearbox oil, only managed to get a cheque for $1000.00.

0
FollowupID: 870808

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 18:37

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 18:37
There you go. Maybe there is hope for me yet.
0
FollowupID: 870814

Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 16:06

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 16:06
Garry what's the difference between ACCC and fair trading. Is it worth trying ACC if fair trading fails or am I just repeating the same thing? Do you know much about legal aide? Can they represent you in court in a case such as this and lastly does anyone know of any lawyers in Mackay area that would help me on a no win no cost basis like many do these days. Cheers.
AnswerID: 601315

Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 16:48

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 16:48
ACCC is the Federal Body - Office of Fair trading/Consumer Affairs etc are usually State based.

None will represent you - advice only. They only represent themselves when they decide to bring a case against a company ie recently ACCC vs Woolworths etc.

These agencies generally do not have the power to punish or provide orders - they need to go to court to get these - there are some exceptions but not in areas relevant to you.

If you want to take them on then you are really on your own but with the agency's advice you may be able to bluff Nissan into offering some sort of support.

As I suggested early in this thread, have you rung the ACCC help desk to get their advice? They can point you in the right direction.

Garry
0
FollowupID: 870741

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 16:54

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 16:54
You could have a chat to legal aid, they may represent you
0
FollowupID: 870743

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 17:23

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 17:23
No I havent contacted ACCC yet. Was taking it one step at a time ie fair trading and seeing how that works out. Once again I will seek legal aide once I decide I need to go to court.

I just don't see how Nissan can deny this when it's clearly a manufacturing fault and there is evidence of other cases. I have nothing to loose except it will delay getting my car back which I will sell the next day. Thanks folks.
0
FollowupID: 870746

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 17:25

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 17:25
Legal aid, Queensland. Link

Cheers
FrankP

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FollowupID: 870747

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 17:49

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 17:49
Thanks frank and everyone helping me work my way through this nightmare.
0
FollowupID: 870749

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 18:01

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 18:01
Kirk,

Have you tried taking the block to an engineering shop that specialises in metalergical examinations? They can do an analysis on the block for cracking or porosity and give you a report. It sounds like Nissan and their dealer are happy to sit on their hands and hope you go away.
With an independent engineering report you will have something to show them you mean business. If nothing else you will have an additional piece of evidence that can be presented in court if it goes that far.
The downside, it means some added costs but may be worth it in the end.

Good luck and keep swinging.

Cheers
Pop
0
FollowupID: 870751

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 19:06

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 19:06
The dealer at Mackay have said its the block. Doesn't seem any doubt about that. I would even say they know there have been problems with them in the past and know this is the case. I just need to put my case, probably in court, that the fault is a manufacturing defect. I am thinking of getting s second opinion (engineering report) to back up the fact that there was no sign of overheating or any other trauma that would have caused the failure.
0
FollowupID: 870753

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 19:45

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 19:45
You MUST get a qualified person's report.
Your opinion, or your relaying what the dealer's service manager told you will mean nothing in a court or in a formal claim.
Get one or more reports from qualified analysts.
Cheers
FrankP

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FollowupID: 870754

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 21:06

Tuesday, Jun 14, 2016 at 21:06
Frank is on the money, at the moment you have no evidence from a third party to back your position
The dealer is not going to go into court against Nissan on your behalf
Unless Nissan relent beforehand, a judge has no evidence to consider to be able to rule in your favor whereas Nissan has a vehicle with no credible service history to sway the judge that it wasn't there fault

Unfortunately you are going to need to spend a bit of your own money to get a case together
0
FollowupID: 870759

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 05:22

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 05:22
Kirk, M test at Glenella will give you a quote to test the block. As said, you will have to have it done to take this further.
0
FollowupID: 870764

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 05:59

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 05:59
Kirk

Truly feel for the situation you are in as I have said on a couple of occasions.
But at the end of the day, do you want to fight this on principal, or is it about the money?

If it is about the money you will end up throwing good money after bad, the actions you will need to take will cost you more than a new engine without doubt. And Nissan will make sure of that. The onus is on you presently to prove something, if money is the issue, I would say cut your loses now and buy a new engine, or sell the car as is...

If it is an "on principal" fight, fine, bit it will cost you and there is no certainty of winning.

Perhaps you could "crowd fund" it.

As for a law firm taking this on a no win, no fee basis, it is most unlikely. What is in it for them? Usually they look to take a cut of any compensation paid - this is not the type of case compensation lawyers take on.

Good luck,

Baz
2
FollowupID: 870765

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 07:08

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 07:08
I have it in writing from the dealer that the block is at fault. As I said above I intend to get a professional report on the engine to say that there was no signs of anything except faulty manufacture that caused this. I just don't know where to head. I have no money. I'm am fighting this on both principal and money. Even if I did have the money I would not pay Nissan for their own fault.
0
FollowupID: 870767

Follow Up By: Baz - The Landy - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 08:03

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 08:03
I suspect an engineer is only going to give a report on what they see, I would be surprised if they will be willing to offer any opinion on whether it is faulty manufacture, but either way, it will cost you to have this done.

I totally get where you are at, but you have asked for opinions, mine is that if you don’t have any money than on balance you are most likely going to expend more of the folding stuff with little likelihood of it yielding the result you are looking for.

Many on here are suggesting you fight them, which is all good and well, given it isn’t their money they are spending to do it, it is yours and you say you don’t have any. Nissan will be well versed in fighting these sort of issues and I suspect they have given it little thought given the vehicle is out of warranty and self-serviced outside of the Nissan dealership network.

Being principled takes money…hence my suggestion, put a new motor in and keep it, or sell it as is.

Tough pill to swallow without doubt, just weigh up the cost of further action…

Good luck
Baz
2
FollowupID: 870770

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 09:06

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 09:06
I'm hearing you baz and thanks. Yes it does get confusing with opinions both ways and a few sideways ones lol. I know it will be me against Nissan in court and despite me knowing I'm right will be up against a well versed representative of Nissan no doubt. First I will wait to see the result of fair tradings approach to them then I might give this crowd funding thing a go and see if I can raise a few bucks for a new engine. I will be a massive pill to swollow letting them get away with murder but that's probably the way this crazy world is. I can't believe we pay all this money for various departments like fair trading and ACCC and many more and at the end of the day they can't do a bloody thing to help you. I just need to get moving somehow. Sitting around waiting is doing my head in. Thanks again mate.
1
FollowupID: 870774

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 18:01

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 18:01
As has already been said, you will need EVIDENCE, before anybody will risk wasting time to help you. You will need to spend some money to help yourself, you can't expect people to use up resources, if you won't.

1
FollowupID: 870812

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 18:33

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 18:33
As I have said many times i don't have the money. Plain and simple. I didn't budget for a 72000 km engine failure I'm afraid. Silly me!
0
FollowupID: 870813

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 21:07

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 21:07
Kirk, how much will it cost to have the engine block tested?

0
FollowupID: 870820

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 23:29

Wednesday, Jun 15, 2016 at 23:29
I'm not sure. The short motor is still together. It means I would have to go get it and then strip it and then ship the bare block somewhere. I am about 40 km away from it with no car. You see this is the predicament I'm in. I guess I could figure out a way if it meant that much.

I'm still not sure what this will achieve. The dealer has said its the block and the claim was submitted to Nissan on that basis. As far as Nissan Australia is concerned the block is faulty. If we prove that by pressure testing or X-ray we are still in the same boat. Nissan still deny the claim.

Same with the oil cooler. I'm still not convinced that was tested properly. I think it was done 3 times in the end. I asked them if they tested it hot and they said no the first time!!
0
FollowupID: 870824

Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Thursday, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:17

Thursday, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:17
Sorry Kirk - I don't understand what it is you want from this forum!

You have been given excellent replies about what YOU need to do and how YOU should to go about seeking a resolution. However, you seem reluctant to go and do it!

I understand you have said you don't have the money to a) get testing done, b) pay for a lawyer and c) repair the vehicle yourself. If this is the case, perhaps it best you sell your vehicle in "as is" condition and buy something affordable.

Regardless of how supportive the given replies are, they will not solve your problems nor can they be used as expert evidence. You actually have no scientific evidence of "Block Porosity" as the fault. From your post above, it would appear that you may also think the oil cooler was involved.

Unless YOU (or a kind benefactor) come up with the money to test the items and persue legal action yourself and have the relevant testing done I can't see you getting anywhere.

You need to accept that it is time to weigh up your options and make a decision of which way to go before it eats you up.

Cheers

Anthony
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Too many places - too little time

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FollowupID: 870847

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Thursday, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:38

Thursday, Jun 16, 2016 at 10:38
If you read the whole thing you would see that most of my posts are updates as many people wanted to be kept in the picture. I can't help what people write in response to that. Also I have said I am taking it one step at a time and now waiting for response from fair trading. Then I may well initiate some advice given to me. Thanks for your time.
0
FollowupID: 870848

Follow Up By: vk1dx - Thursday, Jun 16, 2016 at 11:49

Thursday, Jun 16, 2016 at 11:49
Good to see that you have stopped doing anything on the car and have a planned path to follow.

Phil
1
FollowupID: 870858

Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 15:48

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 15:48
Kirk L - you seem reluctant to contact the ACCC - they have the help line that I have previously linked and can walk you through how to approach this. They are also the agency that enforces the consumer law. If enough people have complained (and it seems they have) they may very well do a review and if appropriate take companies to court.

This ACCC review was announced today - see Link

In amongst a whole lot of things they will also be looking at the misleading advice often provided by vehicle manufacturers and dealers about warranty entitlements and servicing requirements.
0
FollowupID: 870943

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 16:06

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 16:06
Thanks Garry. Bit reluctant to say anything more after the contribution by ACD. As said I will wait for results from fair trading before taking the next step. I do actually have a bit of a plan but taking one step at a time. I actually thought ACCC was same as fair trading but one state and one federal.
0
FollowupID: 870946

Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 16:16

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 16:16
Hmmm - no they are not the same as Fair Trading but yes one is Federal and one local with the power at the federal level.

The ACCC is the agency that is responsible for Australia's Consumer Laws they are the agency that prosecute the banks, Woolies and Coles and the other big companies.

They have a great phone help desk and can explain what you need to do.

As has been suggested you need to get professional advice on this rather than taking advice from forums as you seem to be heading in different directions.
1
FollowupID: 870948

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 17:09

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 17:09
Kirk,

There is another option for free basic advice on how to approach your proble.

Make an appointment to see a Chamber Magistrate. I did this once, admittedly a long time ago, just to get advice on what to do. I told my offending party what I intended to do, based on that advice, and subsequently they gave up and I won my battle.

This was in NSW - I don't know if things are different in Qld.

The CM won't act for you or do anything, just tell you the avenues to pursue, and with some authority.

Following on from garrycol's FU above, warranties are a federal issue. It might be better to engage with the federal authority, ie the ACCC, especially after reading garrycol's link in his follow-up 870943. Fair Trading at State level might be not as effective as you want it to be in this case.

Good luck

FrankP

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FollowupID: 870952

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 17:12

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 17:12
"Things" are always different in Queensland Frank. lol
Cheers
Allan

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FollowupID: 870954

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 17:31

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 17:31
That's half the problem. No consistency between states. Was even told by legal aide here that I have to contact their counterparts in WA as that's where I bought the vehicle. Even tho the case is in Queensland.

Yes the article on ACCC is very interesting. Not before time. Might be a good time to give them a call. Should hear back soon from fair trading as Nissan had 5 days to reply. Thanks guys.
0
FollowupID: 870958

Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 17:41

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 17:41
Allan, I am speechless and shall remain so in the interests of self preservation :-)

Cheers
FrankP

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FollowupID: 870959

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 17:51

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 17:51
Not a bad place to be stuck in I must admit.
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 19:42

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 19:42
Mate

Why would my contribution stop you from saying anything else?

I am just pointing out that you have had some excellent advice that points you in the right direction to solve your issue. You are the one who is reluctant to act on the advice - as has been pointed out by numerous other contributors to this post.

You say you have a plan and you are taking it one step at a time, but you fail to articulate your plan to people who are trying to give you good advice.

At the end of the day it is you who has to prove that the engine has a manufacturing fault (even if there are 12 others) and that it wasn't your servicing that caused the damage. This is what Nissan will argue. The only way for you to prove this not the case is for you to pay for it to be tested and the fault proved.

Leaving the engine sitting in the vehicle and trying to fight without scientific evidence of a fault won't solve your problem. Some one asked "how much would it cost to get the testing" - you couldn't even answer! This would imply that you haven't even investigated this option.

Anyway! If you want to continue having a pity party - go for it.

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 19:49

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 19:49
That was why I asked that particular question, I didn't reply to his answer because I didn't want to give the knife a twist, he's in enough pain already!
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 19:57

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 19:57
Actually it is probably the opposite - as the Consumer Law says the goods must be fit for service (Nissans warranty is irrelevant) it will be up to Nissan to prove that it was not a manufacturing fault or was the fault of the user.

The goods are supposed to work and they haven't so under the Consumer Law (within certain constraints) it is assumed they have failed so Nissan will have to show why it should not pay.

A basic premise of the Consumer Law is that a low quality good will not have a long life but a higher/high quality good should have a long life - irrespective what the manufacturers warranty says. When you buy something of value new these days the seller will normally also give you a piece of paper that says nothing in the manufacturers warranty replaces a consumers entitlements under Australian Consumer Law. This is part of the reason that extended warranties on electrics etc are now worthless.

Garry
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 20:01

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 20:01
I felt his pain to Shaker...

He keeps seeking advice but, is reluctant to follow or consider the advice.

Penny wise, pound foolish - Unfortunately, he cut corners to save money, it may now well prove an expensive option.

Cheers

Anthony


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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 20:17

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 20:17
Gary

Yes you are correct in your interpretation of The Aus Consumer Law.

However, all Nissan will do is argue is that he did not have the vehicle serviced which resulted in an earlier than expected engine failure. They will cite every other vehicle of the same type that has been serviced according to their schedule, that has not failed.

Yes, Kirk may well have serviced the vehicle, but was it to Manufacturers specifications? Was it at the correct service intervals? Were the correct adjustments made to the correct tolerances? Were the approved consumables used?

This is what Nissan will argue - without the proof ????????

I hope he gets a new engine out of Nissan. But he has to start helping himself because if he decides to take them on - he will need the evidence.

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 20:25

Friday, Jun 17, 2016 at 20:25
Thanks Garry. I think we are on the same page here.

The fact here is as I have said time and again is that the Nissan dealer has said the block is at fault. Why would I need to waste money getting it tested to say the same thing. This is out of control now. I'm bowing out now except to report later when a solution is reached. Cheers.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 10:26

Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 10:26
Kirk,

First of all good luck with getting this sorted without too much financial pain.

As far as the fact that the block is at fault, going by your report, seems to not be in question.From what you are saying, even the dealer has admitted that to be the case.
The reason I initially suggested getting an independent examination done wasn't to prove that fact. It was to prove that nothing you have done contributed to the failure and that it was a manufacturing fault from day one.
To me the dealer admitting there is a faulty block and admitting it was Nissan's fault is 2 separate issues.

Good luck
Pop
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FollowupID: 871001

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 10:52

Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 10:52
Thanks pop. I understand that. I have from the dealer a document listing all the steps taken and that the head etc was fine with no warping etc and that there was no sign of overheating. I think this should suffice at this stage. I think Nissan knows it's a manufacturing fault and can't really deny the evidence I have. If I don't get any joy from fair trading or the letter I wrote the other day stating all this I will go to ACCC. As suggested above it appears they are doing s bit of a blitz on this type of thing. Step by step. Cheers.
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FollowupID: 871003

Follow Up By: nickb - Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 21:10

Saturday, Jun 18, 2016 at 21:10
You say Nissan has confirmed the block is faulty, did they say it was due to a manufacturing fault though?
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FollowupID: 871054

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 00:23

Sunday, Jun 19, 2016 at 00:23
Can't be much else if it hasn't overheated or got a rod through it.
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Reply By: Member - Kirk L - Monday, Jun 27, 2016 at 17:10

Monday, Jun 27, 2016 at 17:10
Nissan Australia have come up with an offer of half the cost of a replacement engine being $4300 so I'm reasonably happy with that and will accept it. Thanks so much to those who helped me with this and to the knockers maybe some justice was dealt in the name of a fair deal. All good at the end of the day. Just shows if you fight for what's right you may have a win. Thanks again to those who gave good advice. Cheers. See you on the road again soon.
AnswerID: 601880

Follow Up By: 9900Eagle - Monday, Jun 27, 2016 at 17:33

Monday, Jun 27, 2016 at 17:33
Now, may the crush go well for you so you can get on with your life. Good to hear you at least had some compensation. In the world of cars, this appears to be happening more and more as the Tiger seems to have lost his teeth or never had any.

We don't have a car industry anymore, so there is no reason governments can't at least buy the Tiger new false teeth.

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FollowupID: 871416

Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 10:24

Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 10:24
Kirk, I'm glad to hear that Nissan have offered some compensation for your early engine failure.
IMO, they have got out of it cheaply. In essence, by offering to pay only half the engine repair cost, they have effectively indicated that their 2.5L engine is only good for 144,000kms before it's totally shot. This is a pretty poor engine lifespan by anyones standards.

I've seen many a 2.7L petrol Hilux engine with over 400,000kms on the clock and still performing like a champ. Diesels should last longer.

I'm glad for you that you at least got some moderate level of compensation for the early engine failure.
The whole exercise is a hard-earnt and stressful lesson (as most of us learn by!) to ensure that you keep to the manufacturers specific, stated requirements, under the terms of the warranty agreement.

By carrying out your own servicing under the specified warranty period, you lay yourself wide open for the manufacturer to rightfully reject any warranty claim.

The thing is, the manufacturer sends out service bulletins to dealers as soon as problems are discovered, that could lead to disaster - and those service bulletins often state checks that need to be made, or modifications to be made - or even new, revised parts that need to be fitted.

Sometimes, some, or even all of the above, is carried out when dealer servicing is being done, without the owner even knowing about the problem and the fix.

If you carry out your own servicing, you can miss out on these service bulletins - some of which can be important - and some of which may relate to possible shortened engine life.

Nissan would have had good legal standing to pull out this argument if you had ended up going to court - and it would have made your position much weaker for a judgement in your favour.

I trust the newly repaired engine provides more satisfactory service than the original - and I'm glad to hear you're back on the road so soon, without an extended bun fight, that would have been costly.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 871444

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 11:06

Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 11:06
Cheers Ron. I was chasing a little more and could still pursue further but at the end of the day I'm pretty happy I got that.

I know what your saying re service bulletins etc as I worked for Cummins for many years. In this case however I think it was just a faulty casting and nothing would have saved it from showing up eventually. If I had know it was going to go like this I would have just poured a can or 2 of chemi weld in it and sold it.

I was talking to a guy just yesterday who has had experience with porous blocks so it's more common that Nissan are letting out and I told them this in s letter I wrote for them to consider with the fair trading investigation.

I do hope I do a bit better this time but will be looking for a new truck in the meantime. I get 1 year warranty with new engine so will try to unload it before then I think.

Anyway cheers for your time mate. A lesson to everyone I guess here. Take care.
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FollowupID: 871449

Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 14:04

Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 14:04
What did the ACCC have to say when you lodged a complaint with them? If a common issue they will have a file on the problem and may have taken Nissan to task.
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FollowupID: 871460

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 14:45

Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 14:45
Haven't gone to ACCC yet. Not sure if I will. Was letting fair trading handle it as I said.
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FollowupID: 871461

Follow Up By: Shaker - Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 17:42

Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 17:42
You had better make up your mind, I doubt very much f you will get a second bite at the cherry after you accept their offer.
I think you have done very well under the circumstances, considering that you have an unsubstantiated service history.

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FollowupID: 871481

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 18:53

Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 18:53
Nothing stopping me making a report. I said it's not about money. It's about making Nissan sharpen up their act and if ACCC are investigating this type of thing I'm sure they will want to hear my story.
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FollowupID: 871490

Follow Up By: Ron N - Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 19:31

Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 19:31
Folks, the ACCC is too bureaucratic to indulge in investigating individual complaints. They only operate on an across-the-board approach.

What they are interested in, is multiple numbers of written reports detailing unsatisfactory performance of new cars - manufacturers poor response to warranty claims - and new vehicles that need excessive amounts of repairs.

Once they receive multiple complaints, they will then act against the offending company/corporation.

The ACCC is currently mounting an investigation (a "study" in bureaucrat-speak) into the car manufacturers, because of an apparent surge in all of the above-mentioned problems.

Kirk - the ACCC is looking for submissions as regards the above, so a written report to them on Nissans relatively poor performance in response to your complaint, won't go astray.

ACCC to investigate new car retailing

The ACCC moves like treacle in Winter, and they don't expect to produce any report on the study until the first quarter of 2017.

Cheers, Ron.
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FollowupID: 871494

Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 19:36

Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 19:36
Well Kirk I can see that you did not get the professional advice that many on here recommended - maybe if you had you would be getting more than only 50% of the cost.

If you are happy with 50% then that is great but ...................
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FollowupID: 871495

Follow Up By: Member - Kirk L - Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 20:35

Tuesday, Jun 28, 2016 at 20:35
Garry I told you what I was doing and why. I think I did the right thing to be honest. Took it systematically and one step at a time. I think it was you that was bent on getting the block tested. I think I also told you the reasons I didn't need to do that. It was also incredibly difficult to do that as I would have had to get the short engine and take it somewhere to strip it and then ship the block somewhere to be tested all to not change much anyway as it was agreed by Nissan to be the problem. And all without a vehicle or in fact any means to even get to the engine from where I am 40 km away. I'm sorry I didn't do as you wanted me to but I did what I thought was right and practical in the circumstances. Leave it at that.
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FollowupID: 871497

Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Jun 29, 2016 at 21:11

Wednesday, Jun 29, 2016 at 21:11
Good to hear that you have got somewhere with this, if Nissan dug their heels on it would of been a battle

I would say that they will want you to sign an agreement that the payment is a full and final one to settle the matter which would prevent you taking a second bite at them if that is what you were thinking

All the best with it
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FollowupID: 871531

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