Power steering pump

Submitted: Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 14:40
ThreadID: 140202 Views:10179 Replies:7 FollowUps:16
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Walked into my mechanics work shop to see a large motor on the bench ,it was a 200 series l/cr (massive) it had one side rocker cover off ,on asking what was the problem it had a ceased power steering pump. Damage was a broken timing chain on the right side which was caused by the pump ceasing which sits just below the head .
The car was still driving on 4 cylnds when it came into the work shop,the long and the short it has any body heard of this happening before.
The motor is certainly different to the old ford or holden V8s ,
Cheers
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Reply By: cruiser 3 - Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 15:18

Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 15:18
So the pump had ceased working or was it seized???
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Follow Up By: Member - reggy 2 (VIC) - Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 15:42

Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 15:42
Seized is the correct spelling sorry
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Reply By: Member - reggy 2 (VIC) - Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 15:47

Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 15:47
Sorry people seized is the right word not ceased
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Follow Up By: OBJ - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:31

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:31
When it seized, it ceased :)
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 16:00

Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 16:00
I hope no valves hit pistons on the damaged side.
FrankP

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Reply By: RMD - Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 16:03

Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 16:03
Reggy
The PS pump was certainly de"ceased" if it did that. Too much load on timing chain. If cam timing chain involved then the open valves will have been kissed with passion and destroyed the head and possibly pistons too. You said still running on 4 cylinder, but the noise would have been interesting. Obviously a mechanical sympathetic owner if he/she drove it like that. I wonder if the pump actually seized or the hydraulics relief valve didn't work, ie, jammed closed and built up pressure and stopped the pump. I always have some Nulon auto trans additive in my vehicle power steering to aid lubrication and slipperyness, maybe oil/fluid never changed in the vehicle? and not really the pump fault. What km are we dealing with here? Lots of possibilities.
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Follow Up By: Member - reggy 2 (VIC) - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 14:02

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 14:02
180.000 k's only was the distance but under what condition ??? but that should not matter as it was a pump seizure which has nought to do with engine oil only it's own oil.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member - reggy 2 (VIC) - Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 18:08

Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 18:08
The mechanic was still checking when I was there the pump was seized could not turn it.cheers
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Reply By: Phil G - Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 23:37

Thursday, Jul 02, 2020 at 23:37
Might be a bit more to it.
I'm guessing the perforated metal tube that sits inside the oil filter cartridge has inadvertently been thrown out during the previous oil change. If so, the oil filter sucks in and blocks the flow of oil and sieze the motor. If that is the case I pity whoever did the previous service.
Here's a good photo from the project200 website of the sleeve that gets accidentally thrown out:
https://www.project200.com.au/oil-change/

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:19

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:19
.
Phil, you could well be correct.
However, it's a pretty poor show if that perforated sleeve can inadvertantly become displaced.
Especially as the consequence is so dire.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:39

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:39
It isn't ENGINE failure which is the problem it is the failure of the POWER STEERING hydraulic pump which apparently has seized and stopped it's shaft turning and in doing so has loaded the timing chain or associated drive chain and cause the cam chain to be not driving that side, which in turn will destroy the head on that side "cos the valves are stopped and the piston is still moving. Service of power steering may be the problem.

The picture of the engine oil filter cap may well be true as the oil flow will cause the filter element to implode and then no filtering is happening and bits might go to vital areas but isn't associated with the power steering.
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Follow Up By: axle - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:50

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:50
Your right RMD ,( Jeez What am i saying lol, thats a first!) Things get so tangled up on this forum its unbelievable!.

Cheers Axle
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Sunshine Coast) - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:54

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 09:54
.
So RMD, it's not "engine failure", it is just that an engine component was damaged and the engine no longer performed correctly.
Geez mate, you shoulda been a lawyer!
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Follow Up By: mike39 - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 10:07

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 10:07
Speaking with owners and looking on websites, reveal a myriad of reasons that seem to prevent those wonderful Toyota 4.5l. v8 diesel engines from "performing correctly".
WA mine mechanics love them...Not
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Follow Up By: axle - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 10:29

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 10:29
Allan.

Power steering failure is where it has started the myrad of things going wrong

NOT engine failure to start with!.


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 10:41

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 10:41
It reminds me of Mitsubishi technology on earlier petrol engines where the Balance shaft chain, a mere kids bike chain size, usually failed because it was whipped to death by the balance shaft torsional rotation and then when it broke the rest of the engine destructed.
Pretty poor Toyota has made the P Steer pump able to break it's drive and the domino effect set in motion destroys the major components. Anyone heard of a shear pin?
I had a failure on my HJ61, after 17 years the original power steering belt broke, and no warranty was able to be claimed. It didn't destroy the engine though.
I have not seen inside a V8 Toyota but suspect the power steering drive is also the cam chain drive to the cams on that side.

In a previous job I had to diagnose failures of many mechanical things and despite having to argue the point with the foreman they wanted to know why it failed. A few notable things happened. On a D6 dozer a hydraulic relief valve stuck and the symptom was a thin sheet spray of hydraulic oil coming from the BIG engine driven pump core. The build up of pressure split the centre case of the pump and fired out the oil at around 3500psi. Just replacing the pump was not a fix, the cause had to be found. Very expensive though.
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Follow Up By: Frank P (NSW) - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 10:53

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 10:53
It seems to me to be as silly a design as Ford's oil pump on the 3.2l Ranger engine that won't prime.

Well, reportedly it will after you put 20 litres of oil in it, leave it a while and take 10 out. What BS!

What were they thinking?
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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 13:03

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 13:03
Frank
A dmax engine has it's power steering pump driven by gears and that gear is part of the Injection pump drive and vac pump too. If the power steer pump seized it would certainly load the system but the hydraulic pump body would likely explode to relieve the torsional stress and probably not cause internal damage. It is sad the Toyota V8 external component can destroy the internals. Not good at all.
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Follow Up By: axle - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 13:38

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 13:38
Frank, the oil pump will prime, just dont go into La la land whilst changing oil.

You have ten mins, most get the filter done first.


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 14:39

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 14:39
Axle
Off topic, but you don't have 10 minutes in reality because it depends on the rate of oil dispersed out of the Ranger/BT50 pump. If hot it will be gone very soon. Colder oil it will take longer. How long? Well anyones guess. Just don't rely on 10 mins as being "the Time". Maybe most just happen to be ok within 10 mins, some are not. You don't need 20 litres and a time lapse to fix it.
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Follow Up By: Phil G - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 19:52

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 19:52
RMD, How often have you seen this problem?
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Follow Up By: RMD - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 20:17

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 20:17
Phil
I try and keep away but know of a few vehicles which would not pump oil. Two specific cases where the owner revved the engine a few times to get pressure. No bearings then. Not going to deliver oil if the pump is dry. The side sliding cam ring design where the vane rotor spins, allows far more degree of back flow than most if not all other designs. The vanes rely on oil retention inside the vanes to keep the vanes forced outward to seal and pump. A really stupid adoption of a design to provide a infinite degree of fuel saving.
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Reply By: Phil G - Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 17:06

Friday, Jul 03, 2020 at 17:06
Reggy, Had never heard of it on a VDJ200, which is why I was sceptical.
I did a bit more searching and there found one guy on LCOOL who described exactly the same thing where a power steering pump siezed and the timing chain broken on a VDJ200. Happened in 2017 in Adelaide on a 2012 model that had done 145,000km. Not sure how it all ended up as the guy went quiet.
It looks to be an very rare event.
AnswerID: 632366

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