It appears some caravan dealers cant keep up with demand for new vans

The cynic in me wonders if there might be more than a few “near new” vans hitting the market at a discount in a year or so when impulse buyers realise caravanning isn’t really their thing.
Guy I know does some caravan driver training and I hear he is busy.
You can’t ride a high powered motorcycle (legally anyway) without the appropriate licence or drive a big truck.
Regulation would probably never work in the caravan industry (hard to even regulate manufacturers it seems) but promoting education should be the focus.
Travel safe.

We all started, “the first time” don’t think you will ever teach idiots.

Rocco wrote
"hard to even regulate manufacturers it seems"

They're not regulated, mate. They're self regulated. What a joke. My van did not comply with number plate visibility regs from the day the first of its model left the factory in 2006. I was pulled up by Plod a little while ago because of it and had to do a lot of talking to get off with a warning. To my knowledge, the new ones are still non compliant.

I don't really see to many people doing ocean cruises in the near future, cruise ships are just a very confined virus incubator just line planes, just larger and for a longer duration.

With only a handful (40-ish) of Covid transmissions from being on an aircraft worldwide, you might want to re-think your statement. Aircraft are NOT virus incubators. This is a proven fact.

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Well Jarse, Covid transmissions in aircraft MAY be low but I still shudder at the thought of extended proximity to other people in check-in queues, departure lounges and luggage collection. If you ain't there, yer can't catch it!
The Great Victoria Desert looks much more attractive to me.

We did a 4 week trip to UK in March 2019 and no sooner got home and started planning an 8 week trip to USA driving Route 66. We were due to fly out on 17th March and had been watching the warnings put out by the Government at https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/.

Black Friday came along and we received an email to say that out booking for Phantom of the Opera on Broadway had been cancelled and full refund paid back into our account. About an hour later Smart Traveller changed from warning to don't travel and looking at the way the Yanks are leading the world in their infection rates we decided that overseas travel was off our wish list. We thank our lucky stars that all this happened when it did, another week later and we could still be stuck somewhere in the USA.

If planes are not incubators, then it must be the airports as it seems the majority of those people that are infected have come from overseas whether by ship or plane.

I know where I would rather be, maybe not out in the Great Victorian Desert but there are many places here in Australia that we still haven't seen yet.

I find it amusing that people think that it's related to travelling on aeroplanes, when there have been only 40-odd cases on Earth proven to be directly contracted by being on a plane. Most of the transmissions have happened out in the community, and having been on an aircraft beforehand has no significance whatsoever.

Allan B, there are very few checkin queues at the moment. Those that are have people demonstrating better social distancing than at any shopping centre I've been to since this started. If people use standard precautions and distancing as they would/should do at the supermarket, the risk of transmission is actually the same. The risk on the aircraft is actually less, due to the airflow pattern and filtration inside the aircraft. I guess if you ain't at your local shopping centre, you can't catch it either :) But I guarantee you have a higher chance of catching it there, because more people are shopping than flying at the moment.

Like it or not, the facts are that people have less chance of catching Covid on an aeroplane than at your local shops or any other form of public transport. Since this has happened, not a single passenger of crew member in my airline has caught Covid off the plane (even though tracing has revealed that there have been Covid positive passengers on our aircraft after the fact). I fly for a job, and if I had any concerns, I would not get on the aircraft.

Kazza055, you're lucky you didn't travel to the states. Chances are you would have been exposed over there. By a local, and not by being on an aeroplane ;)

The air recycling system on a plane is as good as any air recycling system found in an operating theater...fact. I read a very good article about how an airplanes air recycling system is a super filter for all kinds of "bugs".

Yes, I know that but when you are in the middle, shoulder to shoulder who you don't know and have no idea where they have been for anything up to 20 hours, is the air conditioning really going to help you?

Atleast when you go shopping you can keep your distance from others.

This is my personal choice to forgo international travel, those that still want to fly is done at their own risk.

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Here is One of many concerning articles. Note the following extract from it.....

...."Another veteran flight attendant and labor representative who requested anonymity adds, “No, I don’t think air filtration in our aircraft will be enough to prevent exposure to the coronavirus.” She notes that close contact between those onboard—while boarding, in the aisles, and near the lavatories—allows exposure to the air people exhale before it reaches the filters.
So if someone sneezes eight rows away, should you be worried? “Yes,” says Gary Peterson, International Vice President of the Air Division for the Transport Workers Union, which represents mechanics, flight attendants, dispatchers, and other airline employees. “The particles have to get into the system to be filtered. There’s no doubt the systems today are far superior than in the past. But the first step to cabin safety is stopping the person who is [COVID-19] positive from getting onboard.”
Experts say two other components are critical for breathing cleaner air in the skies: proper aircraft cleansing, particularly of surfaces near ventilation systems, and access to personal protective equipment, especially face masks."

My son is a specialist essential worker who is required to travel by air. He reports that passengers on his flights are handed face masks on boarding but many do not wear them. He wears his own mask from terminal entry to exit and avoids aircraft toilets.

You may argue fine points of air filtering but, on public transport including planes, the essential is that you are exposed to close personal contact for extended periods.

On a personal note.... I avoid shopping centres. We obtain supplies by online order and delivery to our house.

From what I was told, When smoking was banned on aircraft, the aircon filtration systems were changed from fresh outside supply air, to recirculating via filters.

Macca.

Man!!!, only on good ol exploroz can you have a topic go from inexperienced people towing, to bloody aircon filtration on planes . lol.

Cheers Axle.

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That is the great thing about this forum Axle. It's just like sitting around a campfire. lol

Allan,
Flight attendants know very little about the cabin air system, so I wouldn't class any of her opinion as credible as far as this discussion goes. She's advocating testing and preventing infected persons from getting onboard, which is the only way to stop it.

Of course there's a risk of catching Covid in any confined space, not just an aeroplane. If you are on an aeroplane I'd suggest it's actually less, because the natural flow of air in the cabin is from around the overhead lockers and gasper vents to the bottom, and exits via the sidewall vents near the floor into the baggage hold. So there's a natural cycle of taking the air away from the passengers downwards, rather than spreading it around. Some of that air is recycled, and any that is goes through HEPA filtration (well, on my plane) before being mixed with conditioned bleed air and pumped back into the cabin.

The huge turnover of cabin air is clearly a primary reason why there have been less than 50 cases caught from being on an aeroplane.

It's good that your son wears a mask. It can only help. We don't wear masks on the flight deck, but generally do when in the cabin for a dunny visit. Unfortunately, we face a few 'Karens from Bunnings' who think they know better and refuse to wear a mask. Unless the government legislated masks for air travel, then the only thing we can do is reseat them away from others (if there's room).

The reality is that you're more likely to catch Covid in day-to-day life than you will on an aeroplane :)

Hey Macca, the air system on the aircraft has always been a combined engine bleed and recirculation system. So, the "fresh" air has been through one, or more compressor stages of the engine before making its way to the air cycle machines to be cooled and sent off to the cabin zones. The only change since smoking was banned is all the nicotine and tar-clogged valves needed a lot less maintenance than they used to :) And the crew breathe easier *cough* *cough* :D

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Jarse, thank you for that. I'll be careful to not mention your name to any flight attendants! lol
Interesting that you do wear a mask when in the cabin, but of course you are not sitting in a 'pure' air flow at that time, as are the passengers.
It is possible that some of the regional and private airlines that my son travels on do not have the sophisticated ventilation systems of major aircraft. And anyway, as you say, "It can only help".

I am in a high-risk category and exercising extreme care. Obviously, it has worked so far.

Hi Allan,
I used to fly regional turboprops for an airline with a red kangaroo on its tail. They do have HEPA filters fitted. I couldn't say about other types in different airlines. I'm now on the B737, which does have them also.

The mask wearing for crew was mandated by our medical department. That's part of their risk management strategy for staff. Interestingly, we breathe pretty much the same air in the flight deck as the forward cabin (after it's been processed) without masks.

It's a good idea to protect yourself, especially if you're at risk (i am, too). I don't take any chances. I wear a mask in all public areas, especially the terminals and shopping centres.

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Jarse, I have worked all my life in hazardous environments...... chemical process and oil & gas industries. Risk management was certainly elemental but individuals can also practice 'risk minimisation'. That is what I and apparently you also do.
It has kept me safe over many years, so perhaps you may forgive me for being cautious about aero travel.

"nor advise that one needs to take into account the weight when loaded, water/gas/gear plus the kerb weight rather than the tare weight of the car needs to be considered."

I don't intend to demean you, Rojac, but this is basic knowledge. People who intend to tow should know this and I think the only way that can be done is through a properly constructed "licence to tow" addition to a drivers licence.

Basic knowledge is like common sense, lacking, you are making the assumption that all must possess this basic knowledge, you’d be surprised, salesmen will do whatever to sell their product

Recently in NSW the authorities had a caravan blitz, set up a pull in with portable scales, a dozen cars and vans were stopped and stopped from going further due to the GCM being exceeded. The vans were on the side of the stop and the drivers w left to arrange for legal tows.

Yes I agree that there should be a seperate licence endorsement

Hi Rojac,

No, I wasn't assuming that everyone had this basic knowledge. I was trying to say that everyone SHOULD have it and probably the best way to do that would be via a properly constructed towing licence, which we seem to agree on.

And you're 100% correct, the van sales people are often either inadvertently misleading, ignorant of rules and terminology or deliberately deceptive. One would hope the latter is the great minority, but the first two, I think, are distressingly common.

The caravan industry is self regulated. With shonky builds, shonky weights etc apparently allowed by self regulation, I think that should finish and regulation should revert to state and/or federal authorities.

As an example, my van had a manufacturers stated and plated tare of 1300kg. I was always overweight when travelling. When I stripped it to the requirements of the ADR definition of tare for caravans and had it weighed, it was 1800kg. I have since had an engineered ATM and GTM upgrade, so now I'm legal.

Also, it came out of the factory with a numberplate location that never ever complied with ADRs. The visibility from all angles did not comply, yet the manufacturer was allowed to self-certify that it complied. I only found out about it when I was pulled up for it (and nothing else) by Highway Patrol. I have had to fix that at my expense, which was relatively trivial, but no-one should have to do that.

IMO the caravan industry, including licences and towing, needs a dose of the ABC's 4 Corners, which perhaps would lead to some corrective action.

Cheers