BPL & HF radio

Dave - you seem so rabid in your stance that I can only assume that are suffering a personality disorder (or you are hoping to make money from BPL ?)- ever heard the words "tolerance - choice - goodwill" ? Why do you brand people you don't even know as selfish, antiquated people who offer diatribe and stand in the way ? There might well be merit in aspects your arguement - get with it - learn how to communicate effectively.... its what this forum is for.

David,

One important fact that you have sadly overlooked is that HF communications in the outback has and continues to save lives.

I can't imagine BPL will ever contribute to such an important service.

David Au,
New technology is great, and so is old technology, and it's sometimes old technology that leads to new technology (breath)
Maybe you are "tired and outdated"!

New technology vs Old technology isn't an argument...

The wheel is old technology. Do you see it being outmoded simply for the sake of change?

David Anal Unit,
You're probably right a relatively small number of HF users are probably unable to preserve their right to use a cheap and effective service in the face of the multinationals quest for more profit.

New technology vs Old technology isn't an argument, didnt say it was
The wheel is old technology. Do you see it being outmoded simply for the sake of change?
Id like to see that, would be interesting..

Transmitting radio frequency into a wire isn't new technology, it's been around since Marconi and the way it's proposed here is very very dirty technology.

My follow up is directed to the one handed typer, David Au and his attitude "No handful of selfish antiquated HF users is going to stand in the way of TECHNOLOGY and benefit to so many people."
and the way he is proposing it here is very very dirty ....

David,

Surely you have to agree that the search for a better way of providing broadband to the outback is worthwhile.

Disrupting such a valuable communications system as HF will ulimately reduce the "1½ million rural Australians" capability to keep in touch.

Ultimately BPL interference will intrude on the HF band as other countries, that do not value HF communications as highly as Australians, introduce the technology. That doesn't mean we have to muddy the HF waters.

Once again,
My follow up is directed to the one handed typer, David Au and his attitude "No handful of selfish antiquated HF users is going to stand in the way of TECHNOLOGY and benefit to so many people."
and the way he is proposing it here is very very dirty

But ONE selfish narow-minded retailer of sat phones is trying to.

Guys,

He's just winding you up. Theres no need to stoop to name calling ( I am sure Au is a reference to (1) the sadly underrated Falcon recently replaced by the wildly succesful BA - or (2) maybe just Australia, but I doubt that) as this lowers us all to the wind-up mentality David is exploiting here magnificantly. Just read the post and if its a rant then overlook it, or laugh, like Ray does. David's just an Over Zealous Individual, thats why people refer to him as OZI.

Life is too short, go Toyo.

Bonz,

I wasn't really stooping to name calling, just using David Au's own words

He wrote-
"BPL is a happening and the sooner the roll-out is completed the better.
No handful of selfish antiquated HF users is going to stand in the way of technology and benefit to so many people. HF is tired and outdated. "

-So I wrote "but one selfish, narowminded etc...."

You can thereby see his riduculous name calling for exactly what is is.

David O

My stooping comment wasnt pointed at you David O, but at Warthog. Thanks for replying mate, and for thinking.

It appears that Ozi doesn't wish to use his "right of reply" to the critics of his post. He obviously has no answers.

Maddog pretty simple actually - not one intelligent question or response that needs an answer. I let peoples responses when there is nothing intelligent stated to do the speaking.
Do you think there is an intelligent meaningful question there that warrants an answer?

>Maddog pretty simple actually - not one intelligent question or response that needs an answer. I let peoples responses when there is nothing intelligent stated to do the speaking.
Do you think there is an intelligent meaningful question there that warrants an answer?

Maddog will no doubt come up with his own intelligent questions- but here are several that have been raised that you seem reluctant to answer.

What will BPL provide that can't be provided by other better more effective means?

Why do harm to HF when it is possible to provide the same service without harming HF?

Where do you get your 1/2 million outback numbers from?

How do you believe broadband would be provided to the outback via BPL when it is clear the technology will only work in high population areas on short runs and not via the typical SWER lines utilised in much of the outback?

Oh and how about, why should the power companies be exempt from the laws everyone else who could have thought of similar technolgy and DID many years ago be excluded from the very restrictions that stopped simialr technolgy. Why should power companies be allowed to do what the rest of us couldn't, because of regulations that were in effect and now seem irrelivent because large sums of money can be made by those who make the laws?

Sorry if these questions seem unintelligent to you.

I thought there were some very pertinent points in the thread also David O and you have listed some of them but it would seem that ozi can't differentiate the wheat from the chaff probably because of his lack of understanding of the matter under discussion so I didn't intend to waste time on it.

Yes. My previous request to him to declare his interest got know response.

damn one two many wines and a few too many kilometres today

that should have read "NO response"

Maybe "know" response is telling.

Yes..it got the response I knew it would. Definitely a Freudian slip!

David O

LOL well I wouldn't put it past them, but I'd be branded paranoid LOL

Seriously though, the real conspiracy, I believe, is the conspiracy to increase the value of the current infrastructure....I smell privatisation in the air.

Oh and Skinny, some advice mate...

just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me

:-)

Cheers
David O

All traffic, e-mail, fax, landline telephone, mobile telephone, satellite telephone, the full HF radio spectrum and probably VHF/UHF frequencies at a local level when required are already monitored by the Australian, NZ, USA, UK and Canadian governments using a _very_ sophisticated system called Echelon and have been for more than thirty years.

So every phone call you make, every HF voice contact you make will be fed through the filter systems and the dictionary computers and if you're a target of the system will, eventually, end up in front of a human for analysis.

Think I'm paranoid eh...?
http://www.echelonwatch.org/

Perhaps you would care to ask your MP about it or ask the national newspaper and TV/radio news/current affairs editors why they are not running stories on Echelon?

Mike Harding

Some public broadcasters have run stories on Echelon though they have not been widely syndicated that's true. I doubt HF is fed through the Echelon filters, but there is no doubt about phone conversations. Every citizen can rebel against this system quite easily though. If in every conversation every wise citizen included several target filter words, then the system would rapidly clog. I would make some suggestions, but I am sure you can come up with your own combinations of words.

Have fun!

>I doubt HF is fed through the Echelon filters

I would have thought it was an absolute dead cert. that HF _is_ monitored. Otherwise there would be a form of world wide comms. available which could easily use voice code and has very wide availability of cheap, portable, transceivers. That would be a big hole in their coverage.

Would be interesting though to use a simple digital encoding on HF with FSK and some frequency hopping - wonder if the bastards are programmed to sort that out? Could also vary the frequency of the FSK and the hop time for extra fun :) Should be easy to do with a modern amateur set with remote control capability. Probably as simple as a Windows script.

Mike Harding

mike_harding@fastmail.fm

Banjo, sorry, never ever been into retailing anything, let alone camping or outdoor gear. Never been involved in any way with selling/agent/commissions for satellite phones. None of those things could make you a five figure salary.

I do sell solar panels and associated gear and a few other little things to help people get good prices like Anderson plugs. However, that is only part of my profession.

I would have thought there were plenty of guys making five figures at least from just such retailing, but we are digressing.

What say we wind this little thread up. I did make some suggestions re playing around with Echelon in a post that seemed to dissappear...maybe big brother is watching....or maybe I'm paranoid and just failed to hit the submit button. I'll test my paranoia.

I'd suggest that Echelon assumes some sort of normal background normality about the types of conversations, and the filters are set so as to not be too sensitive and therby jam the system up with huge workloads. Its is easy then to see how the system could be choked if enough people gave a damn about it.

Now I think my ASIO file just grew by leaps and bounds :-)

My dog could make five figures appearing in radio commercials
:-)