Regulations regarding gas bottles mounting
Submitted: Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 19:17
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cokeaddict
Hi all,
I was thinking of buyng a gas bottle mount as used on caravans to use on my 7x4 offraod trailer, But when i went into the
shop today, they mentioned that there are laws in relation to where exactly you can mount the bottle (due to collision impacts)
Was wondering if anyone out there knows if there is a place in cyber space for me to go have a read of the rules on this..OR if anyone here knows what can and cannot be done. I know that the A-frame is the place to go BUT i cant see it being strong enough to hold the bottle without eventually cracking when off-roading (i havea tool box flush against the trailer wall)
My original intent was to mount it behind the wheel arch as it fits perfectly there without protruding
the arch. My only other option would be to mount it side ways inside the trailer (laying on its belly just below the trailer cover rather than on floor as my trailer is usually set up to fit everything without loose spots) is this ok to do?
Any help would be great
Regards Angelo
Reply By: Baz (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 19:32
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 19:32
Behind wheel arch is where they are on our trailer being in NSW far as i know thats OK here.
BAZ.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 19:44
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 19:44
Hmmm interesting bazz, im assuming urs is mounted outside the box right?
Well thats where i planned to put
mine , aparently..its illegal there ...as a side on impact could explode bottle, and if thats the case...ur insurance would not cover you....this is deep man.....im gonna ring NRMA tomorrow see what they say
Thanks for replying anyway..ill let u know what i find out cheers
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Baz (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:03
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:03
Angelo, Redback is our trailer and they rego'ed the trailer, so if the RTA passed the trailer or whoever does the blue slipor pink slip, for our interstate viewer's that's the piece of paper that allow's us to register trailers in new south, then got to be legal, RIGHT, he say's hopefully not wanting men in blue to get pen and paper out to make us poorer than we already are. Oh don't say explode see my 4b shhhhhhhhh.
baz.
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Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:50
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:50
Well,
I'm not here to argue with you Baz but as far as i know (today) the bottle u have mounted on ur trailer IS illigal. Before u go jump off da
cliff...i'd suggest u call the manufacturer of the trailer and ask them if laws have changed since u purchased yours. All i can suggest is they changed the laws for some reason, but i think even if they did, yours would still be legal, other wise common sence tells me that Redback would have had to do a recall as the RTA would have instructed them to, or at least notify all owners by letter of the new laws.
Interesting stuff this.
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Follow Up By: Baz (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 09:29
Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 09:29
No arguement's on this site, only friendly discussions. I will contact Redback today. Let me know how you go as
well coke, drama's in paradise.
Baz.
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 19:44
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 19:44
Angelo,
A gas bottle in a trailer or vehicle is a time bomb waiting to go off. Laying it down is even worse. A lot of CT have the gas bottle like you say behind the wheel arch.I would
check with the RTA or talk to a caravan retailer. What brand of CT have you got ? Where do they recommend a gas bottle be fitted. If all else fails you can always put it on the roof rack.
Wayne
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 20:02
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 20:02
I was told that was illigal lol , i give up lol
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 20:38
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 20:38
Eric,
Putting a gas bottle on the roof rack, is that illegal? I cann't put it on the back, I cann't put it on the front, I cann't put it inside, so where do I put it.
The bottle would be strapped down, or in a cradle. I suppose they are worried about it falling off, but that could apply to anything not strapped down. Is a spare tyre any diffrent to a gas bottle.
I have always carried a gas bottle on the roof rack and have not had any problems. I know it is a problem but until someone comes up with a better idea, the roof rack and gas bottle are going to be travelling companions.
Wayne
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Follow Up By: Member Eric - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:07
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:07
Wayne I gave up a long time ago lol . I also still carry them on the roof rack
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Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:59
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:59
Wayne,
Ok from the feed back i received I now know NOT to lay it down, thats 1 problem fixed.
I dont own a CT
mine is a 7x4 box trailer with off road suspensing engineer made it to my specks. can modify it to suits my trips, without having stuff flying around in it when off road..nice unit. I have emailed tha RTA in regards to laws about it mate, so i will wait for a reply..some time withing the next month i guess..lol.
When i finanlly get one, I will post it.
The guys from the caravan
shop told me today that it has to be monuted on the A frame, problem for me is..the bottle frames just have a single strip that sits bolted or welded to the A frame and the gas bottle sits on top of this strip..no good for me when im off roading..it just wouldnt last. I need more that a strip of metal to stop the bottle from rocking, and eventually causing something to crack.
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Reply By: Geoff-2 - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 20:01
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 20:01
Wayne is correct
Never Never Never mount or travel with a lpg gas bottle on it's side, I think it has something to do with the seals.
Geoff-2
AnswerID:
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Reply By: The Banjo - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 20:24
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 20:24
Many of the pro builders put gas bots on the drawbar area - close to
the tub or further forward (in front of a storage box etc - that is Australia wide practice)....don't know about the sides, though plenty of them have jerries on the side too.
AnswerID:
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Reply By: rolande- Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 20:33
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 20:33
My CT came with a mount on the drawbar, with a bracket at the top welded to the front of the trailer, could may-be do this to your toolbox, would think if factory did this then should be O.K.
Rolande
AnswerID:
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Reply By: macca - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:04
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:04
Very Interesting topic,
My C/T has it on the drawerbar sitting on the lefthand side beside the spare wheel. The Camping trailer (as opposed to a CamPER trailer) I have built doesn't have the luxury of mounting on the side nor the drawerbar, so I have mounted it in its own holder in the front of
the tub. A previous Caravan I had had it mounted in the front boot . My present Caravan has 2 bottles mounted on the drawer bar. The mate (there's that word again (lol) just finished a round Oz trip with his bolttle bolted down on the roof rack. So who's right and who's wrong. The manufacturers of Caravans and Camper Trailers have to get there productions registerd/approved etc so they cant be so wrong can they? or are they?
AnswerID:
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Reply By: navaraman - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:09
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:09
I've looked in my Australian Gas regs and can't find any reference to LPG cylinders and trailers so it must come under road rules. Some points, never carry a cylinder on it's side, the valve must be at the top so as to be in the vapour space, they are not to be in liquified LPG. I wouldn't carry a cylinder on a roof rack as LPG is heavier than air and I wouldn't want to risk it seeping into my car if I was parked and the cylinder leaked a little.
For cylinders designed to reamian connected to caravans they must be at least 200mm off the ground and mounted externally on the draw bar or on in a "similarly secured location on the caravan wall which would face the towing vehicle." In a compartment on the draw bar or in a compartment inside the caravan which is vapour proof to the caravan.
This would suggest the draw bar is the least likely place to be affected in a collision and as such would be the safest for portable bottles too.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Nudenut - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 07:41
Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 07:41
why are bottles on fork lifts and the like on the side when in use and yet transported (delivered) vertically.
Why cant the valve be in liquid?
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Follow Up By: navaraman - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 18:08
Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 18:08
Don't know the answer to either question. You would imagine if the valve is gas proof it should be liquid proof as
well. I gave up trying to understand the gas regs years ago, I just work to them and hope the regulator (that's the government official not the pressure regulator) leaves me
well alone. The twice yearly audits can be a pain in the arse.
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 18:25
Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 18:25
Nudenut,
The valve on a gas bottle must be able to vent if the gas bottle gets to a certian temp. Leaking gas into a
open space is better than the bottle exploding.
As for fork lifts they have a 2 blow off valves, one upright and one for when it is on it's side. The gas bottle must be laid on it's side with the hose conection pointing down, this gets the valve in the right postion.
Wayne
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Reply By: Willem - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:27
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:27
I've got a real flash
home made gasbottle carrier mounted on my spare wheel carrier. Can send you
pic if you want.
Most caravan gasbottles are mounted on the drawbar
Cheers
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:54
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 21:54
Willem,
What are you doing carring a gas bottle on the back of a vehicle. Fuel and gas should not be carried on the back. In the event of a vehicle hitting you in back the fuel or gas will go off like a bomb.
In NSW it is illegal to carry such things on the rear of any vehicle.
Wayne
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Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:01
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:01
Hi Willem,
Id love a
pic of it mate thanks.
cokeaddict@optusnet.com.au
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:06
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:06
The only part of a vehicle that may hit my gasbottle is the name plate of a Kenworth truck. My gasbottle will sit higher than most 4x4 roofracks.
BTW most fuel tanks are positioned in the back of a vehicle. I think that you are being a tad nervous.
I am so pleased I do not live in NSW.
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Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:08
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:08
Hey Willem......
I retract that suggestion i had of copying ur mount to the spare,
Had me a long hard think and i can see a time when im listening to a nice tune cruising down the hwy at 110 kms / hour....look in my side mirror and there is this gas bottle chasing me down the hwy.
Kinda reminds me of the WW2 classic the
dam busters...just picture those bombs bouncing off that water ..now turn your bomb into a gas bottle....get my drift?
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:19
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:19
Willem,
So how high is the gas bottle. The roof rack on the Cruiser is about 2mt (6.5ft).
Fuel tanks on vehicles are sometimes at the back but they don't sit out past the rear bumper.
I might be wrong but it could be Australia wide that carring flammable liquids on the back of vehicles is illegal.
Wayne
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:34
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:34
Angelo,
As someone once said " Oh ye of little faith ".....................My 4.5kg gasbottle rests very snugly in a 10litre steel paint drum which is attached to the galvanised metal frame which I have attached to the spare wheel carrier. The tin rests on top of the spare wheel. I have a winch extension cable that settles in around the top of the gas bottle to stop it from rattling and the lot are strapped down with a ratchet strap. I have been in some serious offroad country and the gas bottle is as secure as.......
Wayne,
The middle of the gasbottle is 180cm high off the ground. I have driven through NSW with this fitment and nobody even gave me a sideways glance.
As for jerry cans...early Pajero models came out with a holder on the back door!
You fellas stress and worry about too many variables.
Cheers,
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 23:08
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 23:08
Willem,
That is why you don't see many early Pajeros.
Kaymar still make jerry can holders on there rear bars. They are only for water. If you want to carry fuel in it then it is your problem.
The law reguarding fuel carried on the back of vehicles has changed since the Pajeros came out, that is why they don't do it any more.
I am sure people have had a second look at your vehicle, you just have not seen them looking at you.
And for the stress and worry, in my line of work we do worry about a lot of variables and try to stop a incident from happening.
Wayne
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Follow Up By: Willem - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 23:15
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 23:15
I don't care, Wayne...no stress, no worry
Goodnight
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 23:18
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 23:18
Goodnight Willem
Wayne
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Follow Up By: Troopie - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 15:09
Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 15:09
G'day Willem
Am considering building the same set-up to house a gas bottle. I have a pop-top Troopie which comes with a 2kg bottle installed. However I want to be able to carry more gas for longer trips. My plan was to build a holder that is mounted above the spare wheel on the swing out carrier.
Local caravan place didn't feel this would be a problem as it didn't protrude beyond the vehicle extremities. Having said this - I am a little worried about it. I'd love to see the
pic of your set-up and have sent you an email via your website.
Cheers
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Reply By: Member - Bob - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:00
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:00
I would have thought that the gas cyl should be mounted as far aft on the trailer as possible. That way, in the event of a collision, you should be pretty safe but the turkey running up your clacker will get a message he won't forget in a while.
How often do gas cylinders explode on the road? How do they differ from fuel tanks on vehicles? Isn't all this legislation gross overkill for a theoretical problem?
I have a gas cylinder mounted on each side of the trailer behind the mud guards. The brackets where installed by the trailer manufacturer prior to it being registered in the ACT.
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Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:05
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:05
Hi Bob,
Hmmmmm seems like there are a few people with mounts behind the mud guards..
Loved the line about the turkey behind hitting u will remember it for ever and a day
Cheers all
Angelo
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Reply By: Richard & Leonie - Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:27
Wednesday, Mar 17, 2004 at 22:27
It's a question that has come up a number of times in the
forum and people have said it is illegal to carry gas bottles on top of a vehicle. No one has quoted the legislation or regulation so I presume they are only passing on beliefs not facts.
If you search under RTA in NSW the only thing I can remotely find that might cover it is the requirement to have ANYTHING carried on a vehicle to be securely fixed and not likely to cause a danger to others.
For me its on the roof rack. It is dangerous to carry in the car. If there is the slightest of leaks, Kurboom!!! Dangerous carried on the rear if someone tailgates you. It is all very
well to say they might incinerate themselves and tough but what happens if they are pushed into you or you do something stupid and cause it or some innocent bystander cops a gas bottle passing through them at great speed. For CT's I would be guided by the manufacturer. They have to get them registered.
If there any
police members or lawyers out there how about it.
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Reply By: Member - Al & Mrs Al (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 08:15
Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 08:15
Hi Angelo
most caravans have the gas bottles on the drawbar as mentioned....Mr Al when restoring/renovating our one decided to build a special "tool box" to house the bottles in case of rocks etc flying up and damaging them...alot of vans, campers etc have guards around them to try and prevent this...the box Al had made houses the gas bottles and has fittings within the box so that the bottles only need to come out when they're empty, they can be connected to the van when required from within the box....they remain upright at all times....happy to send you a
pic if you want one....as for safety...Al deals with this kind of thing everyday...and is amazed at times of the way some gas cylinders are housed and carried..
cheers
Lyn
AnswerID:
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Reply By: Robert - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 11:49
Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 11:49
Our gas bottles are mounted on the left-hand side of the trailer to the rear of the mudguard, as I consider this to be the safest and most practical place. I was not comfortable with gas cylinders or fuel containers being mounted at the front of the trailer, as I consider this not to be much different to having gas cylinders or fuel mounted on the rear on a vehicle.
In the event of a severe rear end collision, the thought of the gas bottles (or fuel containers) being sandwiched between the vehicle and trailer isn’t a nice one!
At least with a side collision I would think the trailer would tend to be pushed away from the colliding vehicle on impact – not sandwiched between my vehicle and the other vehicle.
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Reply By: Member Colin - NSW Bungendore - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 13:41
Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 13:41
A very interesting subject.
What about the 1000's of people who go camping in standard cars, without trailers or roof racks? Where do they store their gas bottles - in the boot or in the back of the waggon!
So, what is the solution for these poor suckers - collect wood for a fire to
cook their tea, or maybe they should just stay
home - I don't think so.
I carry 2 small bottles in the back of the car, one for the frig and one for the stove - have done for ....Hmmmm .. 30 or more years. Where else would we suggest I keep them?
I think that the 'authorities' need to change the MV regs to make 4WD's have their exhaust systems placed on the roof, not under the car - that will lessen the No. of vehicles lost to fire in the bush! ??
I think we should take Willems advise and be SENSIBLE and not stress too much.
There is far greater 'risk' taken by those who have a couple of slabs of beer in the back of the car!
Happy days !
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 18:14
Thursday, Mar 18, 2004 at 18:14
Colin,
The carring of gas bottles in the vehicle was outlawed a few years ago when a plumber in
Sydney had a slow leak in his van. On Tuesday morning after a long weekend he started the van. They found parts of his van in the next post code.
This one incidence caused a review of gas bottle storage.
Wayne
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