Member - Tony G (ACT) posted:

You would need a well set up vehicle to attempt to go up Billy Goat Bluff with a camper in tow.

Most 4WD's would do this track quite easy, but put a camper on the back and you are asking a lot.

I would say the group did'nt do their research of the trip very well, and had no regard for the track and all who would follow.

Ken posted:

Ozdyssey, well said.
To all you camper towing nutters read this and leave them out of the difficult bits of the Vic High Country. Sure go to King Hut & Pineapple Flat, Talbotville, but stay off the steep narrow tracks and have some sense.
How many of the 'Oh we went up XXX with our camper' brigade are like the Nissan in the report above ? Most I reckon, or when they went it was prfect weather and they forget to tell you their mate without the trailer gave them a fair bit of help. Then some poor sucker in a standard Pajero gets lulled into thinking he can follow suite.
Even for people experienced in the Vic High Country it can become very 'interesting' when the weather turns sour even without a trailer. A few trips down here in the height of summer holidays does not make you an expert on the area and the dusty tracks can turn treacherously slippery in no time. And that is to say nothing about the problems of meeting someone on the likes of Bulltown Spur or Billy Goat Bluff !
The OK Corral will have nothing on the confrontation of 2 campers on Billy Goat. Use radios you say, sure there are radios but who listens out for other users and on what channels and given the rising lack of respect for other travellers who could say that people will take any notice ? Post 29726 provides a good example of the changing nature of the sort of pepole using the tracks, they know everything and push on regardless of the situation.

Ken

Mike Harding posted:

>Even for people experienced in the Vic High Country it
>can become very 'interesting' when the weather turns
>sour even without a trailer.

Well said. A few years ago we were _very_ nearly trapped in one of my favourite camps (only one track in to it) because of unexpected rain. Had we not just stuffed all the wet/muddy camp gear into the back of the vehicle and hightailed it out at 7am I think we would have been there for another 3 or 4 days before the track dried.

About 6 months ago I was coming down from a spot in the central Gippsland HC on a regularly graded, but little used, road after 2 days of heavy rain and I had enough trouble just keeping the vehicle from heading over the side into one of those nice 200 feet drops - had I had a trailer attached I think I would have parked up for a day or two until the track dried.

The weather in the HC can change in 5 minutes - I've been up there in January and had heavy hail and 0 deg C overnight. If you fail to treat this country with respect it may kill you - or your family.

Mike Harding

Crackles posted:

Ken, unfortunately the Trip Notes most follow don't suggest base camping for trailers & very few give warnings of how serious track conditions can be when wet. This isn't helped when 'experts' get on forums & say how easy the steep tracks are solely based on the fact they drove up 1st go in their highly modified rigs. Before recomending tracks for trailer use one should imagine a novice driving a standard Pajero with road tyres towing an overloaded low slung trailer cos thats what some will have that lurk on this site.
Cheers Craig...........
Vic

Batboy posted:

Seems to me the group DID do their research and went with capable well equiped vehicles to deal with just such a problem.

They also obviously DID have respect for those that follow and the track as they used the best equipment they had. The patrol, to tow all the campers up rather than rip up the track and damage vehicles

I personally know the owners of three of the vehicles on the trip and those three are all very experienced and capable, all three have winches and know how to use them, two have front and rear diff locks. They also had a fantastic time and can't wait to get back!

Agree there definately are plenty of idiots that don't go prepared or don't realise what they are in for but some of us do know what we are doing whether towing a camper or not. Question is how do you tell the difference?

Ken posted:

Batboy,
I can only take your word that this group did their research and were well prepared. I wonder though where it was they did the research, or was it a case of 'we have all the toys let's give it a go'. I suspect this might be the case.
I accept in this instance it may not have been a case blundering off unprepared and ill equipped or poorly advised.
It still begs the question though, what about the rest of the people trying to use Billy Goat that weekend ? This is a very popular track with heavy use during the open season. For a group to plan to use it in this way, winching if they have to is inconsiderate and entirely inappropriate. What would the other vehicles wanting to use the track be doing whilst these possibly well prepared, experienced blokes proved their prowess ? If you know Billy Goat it is very narrow and there are few places to winch from; in the hardest sections it would require multiple set ups to winch up as you would be always dragging the vehicle either to the drop off or the cliff face. Given the length of the difficult bits I think it highly unlikely an electric winch would last the distance if they had needed to winch up.
It is the total lack of regard for others that is disturbing shown by many of the people who now venture into the High Country. You see it in so many ways, some mentioned in recent posts, such as failing to establish the size of oncomming groups, refusing to wait while others pass, barging past as if their lives depended on getting somewhere. Macho stuff that is also exhibited on the roads and gets us all painted as cowboys. We can argue all we like that as a group we are not like that but face it, some are. Its not fair to brand all of us this way but try telling this to some poor sod intimidated by a 4WD at a roundabout or a mate or a wife that has been spooked buy this sort of arrogance in the bush.
I fear that before much longer there will be serious altercations betwen a 'we can take these things everywhere' group blocking tracks and an equally self indulgent group not wanting to get on held up.
I hope I'm wrong.

Ken

Batboy posted:

Hi Ken, I tend to agree with you mostly and would be rather annoyed myself to come up against a massive convoy of vehicles that couldn't make the track and spent hours holding me up especially if they showed a lack of regard for others.

Turns out is was not Billy goat they had the problem with. Apparently all vehicles pulled up Billy goat without drama it was a short section of another track (yet to find out which)

Apprently research was books, internet, word of mouth and info from a local guide met on a previous trip by one of the group. Still it seems pointless to defend the actions of one group who I wasn't even a member of when there is still so many people who will do the same thing but won't be as well informed or equiped and will either come to grief or cause greif to others, causing people to label all those who tow trailers into the high country as irresponsible and selfish. Better off to keep to ourselves
Ignorance and arrogance are the problem

Jim

Member - Tony G (ACT) posted:

G'day Batboy, nice to see you go into bat for your mates.

You ask how do you tell the experienced blokes from the idiots.

Well the experienced blokes don't tow campers up Billy Goats Bluff the idiots do.

My previous vehicle had twin diff locks, winch, big MT tyres, and I would not tow a camper up there because you would still rip the track up.

Now I've been going into that part of the High Country around there and the G'atta since 1977 and you would be unlucky enough to see another vehicle, and when deer shooting, I could spend a week on the Moroka/Wonnagatta Rivers and see no one. So its not as if I don't know the difficulty of some of the tracks.

Now that the area is becoming very popular we have to some how reduce the impact our vehicles have on the tracks, and if it means keeping campers of tracks like Billy Goats so be it.

So when your mates do their next trip to High Country I hope they enjoy it, but look after it.

madcow posted:

Where are you located Barnesy? Reckon I might know you. did you do the Cape last year??

Cheers

Mike Harding posted:

Madcow - are you a friend of Mad Dog? :)

Barnesy - are you the Barnsey from aus.cars.offroad?

Mike Harding

madcow posted:

I do know a Mad Dog. He drives a troopy! Same bloke?

Barnesy posted:

Madcow and Mike, the answers are no and no. I live in Whyalla SA, didn't do the cape last year, will be doing it next year.

Mike Harding posted:

>I do know a Mad Dog. He drives a troopy! Same bloke?

Nah. This one's far too mad for anything like that :)

Mike Harding

Member - Tony G (ACT) posted:

Nice one Russrob, great to see someone give a public thanks after receiving assitance.

Wayne (NSW) posted:

Russrob,

Glad to hear that your trip finished OK.
I was only looking at the photos that Belinda took this morning and only then realised how far down the bike went.
I will get all the photos together from all the other people and send them on.
The people on the trip thought it was great to see the recovery in action. We had to winch some of our vehicles up a greasy slope a couple of days before, but this is the first time that they the winch set up that way to winch the bike up the slop at a 90deg angle.
Latter today I will try and post a couple of the photos on this site.

Wayne

Member - bushfix posted:

good stuff guys