SHOO-GOO COOPER ST Tyre Fix Test

Submitted: Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 at 14:56
ThreadID: 35361 Views:4617 Replies:10 FollowUps:7
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SHOO-GOO COOPER ST TYRE FIX TEST

Most of our trips usually involve testing new products or different
camping solutions, and so it was no different on our recent 6000km loop
from Melbourne via Birdsville thru the North Simpson via Hay river, Alice
and back to Melbourne via the Murray sunset.

From the 4 available sets of wheels for the 4800 GU Patrol I choose to take my
relative skinny but tall 255/85/16 Cooper ST which have about 75% life left.
These offered the greatest longitudinal contact patch.

While in generally good condition these tyres had 3 lugs torn off them
on Mt Blue Rag over Xmas as a result of not engaging the rear locker soon
enough. This probably would not of happened if the Patrol still had its LSD.

The missing lugs left large deep holes in the tread pattern extending just below
the carcass surface but not so deep as to expose any belts. The largest missing
piece was about 12cm sq in area.

Rather than throw the otherwise good tyres out I choose to repair them with
layers of Shoo-Goo.

Shoo-Goo has become one of those, must take ,wonder products like Gaffa tape and cable ties to us over the years. It is an adhesive sealant that essentially leaves
a layer of rubber behind after it has cured and this layer has strong bonding
properties. It is available in small tubes from bigger shoe stores and is
relatively expensive at around $18 for 300g. If your into motocross as we are
where bike boots can now cost $800 a last for only a few races you soon come to
appreciate an effective shoe repair product.

Research on the internet will show very few hits regarding repairing tyres,
perhaps because of the liability issues involved. However there are some
regarding the use of products like shoo-goo for repairing less-critical
tyres such as those used on fork lifts and golf buggies where speed is
low. I cannot recommend Shoo-goo but can tell you of our experience.

First I only choose to use Shoo-Goo to replace a torn off lug and would
not have used it if the carcass had been penetrated or any metal
belts were exposed, as these usually end up rusting lifting the tread
nearby.
I have also used Shoo-goo to reduce spreading of the odd cut.

The tread height was about 10mm around the missing lugs and I let the tyre
warm in the sunshine and applied Shoo-Goo to a depth of around 3mm and let it cure for a couple of hours. It can ooze around a bit and it helps to have the area
to be patched horizontal. I applied 3 layers to a height of about 8mm over
a 24 hr period to each of the 3 torn off lugs (2 lugs on 1 tyre and 1 on another)
My thinking here was that the goo would not be as good as the original material
and I didn't think it would stand up to constant contact with the road surface.
The layering allows for better curing.

Results - on our trip the Birdsville track again proved to be the most damaging
on tyres due to both the stony surface and the opportunity to go too fast.
One of the vehicles in our group of 6 got the pressure/speed/load
equation wrong and shredded two Geolander AT tyres on this track and another
car got a flat.

After the entire 6000km trip 6 of the 8 layers of Shoo-Goo I had applied remained
and it was clear the new rubber surface had survived well and in places the
original lugs had worn down to the level of the Shoo-Goo, and both had then
been worn further.

------------------------------
Chipping Note - The Cooper ST tyres I had were the only tyres in our group
to exhibit fresh chipping as a result of the Birdsville track section.

Tyres Included

GU Patrol BFG AT (New)
60 SERIES Geolander AT (60%) (2 shredded)
NAVARA Wrangler ATR (New)
Pajero Grandtrek AT2 (70%)
Range Rover BFG AT (New)
GU Patrol Cooper ST ( 75% lugs patched)

--------------------------------------------

Notes - At Birdsville the shredded 10R15 tyres were replaced with Dessert Duelers
as per there recommendation at the relative good price of $204 each.

The Pajero had a nail removed and was repaired at the Birdsville tyre dealer and the tyre failed the next day at Poepels corner and we repaired it with a plug which held for the rest of the trip.

Robin Miller
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 at 17:42

Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 at 17:42
Hi Robin,
Everything must have more than one use ........ I guess you can also repair your shoes with that stuff :-))
AnswerID: 180853

Reply By: Member - Peter D M - Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 at 18:23

Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 at 18:23
hi robin,
thanks for the detail. i have a set of st's and had a bit of chipping of side lugs but only when i had wheel spin on rough rock. i've found with tyre pressure for the conditions and lighter foot as well as the diff lock no further problems but will keep the shoo-goo in mind.
cheers peter
AnswerID: 180860

Reply By: Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. - Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 at 19:07

Wednesday, Jun 28, 2006 at 19:07
Thanks for the info Robin . I will buy some to shove in the stake holes in my sidewalls after I have patched them and put in a tube .
Sounds like great stuff .
Cheers ,
Willie .
AnswerID: 180870

Reply By: pprass - Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 09:46

Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 09:46
First time I have come across another GU Patrol using 255/85/16 Cooper ST's. I have also had this unusual size on my Patrol since May 2004 - my idea was that I wanted a high profile (to raise the diff as much as possible), but with a narrower cross section which would give me the longer foot print in sand, mud etc. I have tested them in soft sand on the north NSW coast and was able to drive the beach without dropping the pressure. I also noticed that troopy's on Fraser Isl have similar skinny tyres which are not deflated and the backpacker drivers don't seem to have much trouble getting around.
The only problem though (and I am not sure if it is because of my driving style) is that most of the lugs show cracks where they join the carcass. Also there is some severe chipping - much more than when I had BFG's. Cooper have found that this cracking is more prevalent in Aus than in the USA and consequently the manufacturer is looking at making modifications for the tyres that are sold in Aus.
AnswerID: 181004

Follow Up By: Robin - Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 10:10

Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 10:10
Hi pprass

I guess most have gone over to wider 285/75/16 but I prefer the narrow tyre
and its contact patch shape which I to believe offers real advantages espically if you adjust pressures.

Our most recent trip required several sand ridges to be breached and the Patrol
spent a lot of time , snatching others.

Love the extra ground clearance, lower rev's which help my thirsty GU and the lower unsprung weight which helps shocks and makes car turn better.

Also use 235/85 a lot around town and the 255 has about the same actual tread width as these.

Pity about the compound , maybe they will one have them in STC .

Will need new tyres soon and I notice that new Maxxis mob list this size but don't know if they exist in Australia. Kelly used to list it to, but they never came here.

Only Cooper have 255/85/16 non mud terrain to my knowledge unfortunately.

Robin Miller

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FollowupID: 437273

Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Jun 30, 2006 at 14:54

Friday, Jun 30, 2006 at 14:54
Hi Robin,

BFG Muddies are the only other tyre I know of in the 255/85R16.

Cheers
phil
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FollowupID: 437569

Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 10:47

Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 10:47
Hi Robin,

Thanks for the product report and I hope you had a great trip - sounds like you did. Will put some of this in the tool box as it sounds like it could be usefull for other applications as well.

Kind regards

Theo
AnswerID: 181012

Reply By: Member - MrBitchi (QLD) - Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 10:55

Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 10:55
Where d' ya get it?
AnswerID: 181013

Reply By: Robin - Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 13:58

Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 13:58
Just following up a couple points raised -

We get ours from a franchised store in Knox City Melb. called Borderline but have
previously got it from shoe repair shop.

Things have to be pretty versatile to make it into our kit and Shoo Goo
saves space and weight because of its various uses.

Have used if for following as well as tyres.

Actually make small rubber parts by using cardboard mold.

Repaired raditator hose - adding couple of cable ties as well.

Patched wifes shoe sole for latest trip - using smear round edge to make
boots more waterproof - which was waste of time as didn't see a drop of rain or muddy puddle.

Directly - repaired tube instead of patch where thick section was needed.
As a glue its better than stuff that comes with cheap patch kits.

Repaired neighbours Li-Lo
(Its messy and leaves nasty black patch - so he will be reminded to be more careful)

Patrol Plastic mudguards break clips and come off after a knock and have repaired
both broken clip area and replaced rubber sealing strip by running a smear of Shoo
goo in gap between guard and body and smoothing off with finger.

Mudflaps - Come loose and fixings get worn , so squeezed this stuff in and around
attachment points making much stronger.

Have not tried this - but from what I've seen I believe it to be capable of repairing
a large tear in tyre with the aid of some rubberized canvas mudflap material and I go prepared for this.

Robin Miller

P.S. told it comes in clear as well

AnswerID: 181027

Follow Up By: pprass - Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 14:50

Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 14:50
"We get ours from a franchised store in Knox City Melb. called Borderline but have
previously got it from shoe repair shop"

Robin,
We live just 1km from Knox City - is Borderline actually in the shopping complex? Also I know what you mean by the mudflaps on the Patrol - it will be very handy to strengthen the anchor point which is very loose now.

Peter
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FollowupID: 437304

Follow Up By: Robin - Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 15:21

Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 15:21
Hi Peter

Yes its on level 2 same side, and not far from target.

We are not far away either, stratford sq up near the knox hospital

Robin Miller
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FollowupID: 437309

Reply By: S&N - Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 22:45

Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 22:45
what is the "pressure/speed/load equation"? is this an actual equasion or just experience?
AnswerID: 181121

Follow Up By: Robin - Friday, Jun 30, 2006 at 10:19

Friday, Jun 30, 2006 at 10:19
Hi S&N

There is an equation, but as technical details of commercial tyres are kept out of the glossary ads it is effectivily empirical from our point of view.

I think its pretty well universally excepted now that on roads like Birdsville track which have lots of stones , there are two prinicpal factors that lead to tyre loss. One being fracure of tyre by hitting a stone to hard , and the second being heat build up.

Lower tyre pressure reducing fractures but increasing heat , and speed increasing likely hood of either failure.

So to go faster you need to increase pressure to avoid fractures but increasingly move into the likely hood of failure via heat build up.

The question being , what is best combination. Here I guess with lack of information it becomes experience based.

Starting point being a little lower pressure than normal for your load and dropping speed back to around 80 to compenstate for more heat from lower pressure.

Not doing both , increases the likehood of failure , if your car is overloaded/lack of suspension travel /or tyres not so good travel then you need to go lower/slower again than the rest of the mob.

In this trip the 60 series due to suspension and loading was likely to break first.

One tyre shredded first , then the others were pumped up a bit more then a second failed soon after.

Unfortunately I wasn't on the spot , and don't know if a judgement could be made as to failure mechanism

Robin Miller

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FollowupID: 437522

Reply By: Member - Geordie C (WA) - Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 23:22

Thursday, Jun 29, 2006 at 23:22
HI Robin,
great to hear of another useful product to go with my fencing wire, gaffa tape cable ties and kneed-it epoxy. I have not found anything to replace the Sellys Sole Repair since they stopped making it.

Interesting to hear about your Coopers chipping, another mate of mine has ripped almost every lugg off his Cooper ST's on his Patrol with twin lockers.

I also have Cooper 31 /10.5 R15 ST's on my 1992 Terrano and have only a few minor cuts but no serious lug chipping after 45,000k. It has a LSD rear and open front diff and mostly towing a light camper trailer except for on the really serious hilly tracks. I have been all over WA inland tracks, SW to Pilbarra, SA Flinders Ra to Burke, down to the Riverland, through the Vic high country, Omeo and Dargo to Blue Rag, Walhalla, the Spur and some of the rocky tracks on the Tasy West coast and inland. I have been very pleased with the performance although they do tend to need a lot of balancing to get them wobble free on the highway after a bit of rough track work.
I wonder if it is the larger size Coopers that chip more or if it is the combination of a lighter vehicle auto and LSD that gives my tyres a better chance of survival.

Geordie

AnswerID: 181127

Follow Up By: Robin - Friday, Jun 30, 2006 at 10:35

Friday, Jun 30, 2006 at 10:35
Hi Geordie

I would agree with you that anything like auto's Lsd and light weigh make make it less likely to rip the lugs off.

Twin lockers(or no lsd) , heavy patrol and in my case a manual with over 450nm of torque mean it just takes 1 short attention span lapse at the wrong time to do the damage.

Still the view from Mt Blue Rag was enthralling.

Robin Miller
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FollowupID: 437525

Follow Up By: Member - Geordie C (WA) - Friday, Jun 30, 2006 at 20:49

Friday, Jun 30, 2006 at 20:49
Thanks Robin,
I might have to keep the old Terrano for a bit longer yet, it has served me well and there is plenty of life left in the Coopers.

Yes I agree the Blue Rag ridge track was fantastic we just do not have Mountains like that here in WA. The wife did not like the steep bit across the slope near the end of the track. But the view was worth the effort and 3,000+ km to get there.

I am off next week up to the Pilbarra again including Murchison to Mt Augustus, to Parabadoo, Karijini national park, Dampier (Burrup peninsula) Exmouth and back. I will see how the tires go on that trip.

I have not found the Shoo Goo yet, is there a brand name or is that it.

Geordie
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FollowupID: 437635

Reply By: pprass - Sunday, Jul 02, 2006 at 21:29

Sunday, Jul 02, 2006 at 21:29
Was in Knox Shopping centre this morning and went into Borderline and picked up a tube - didn't know whether to go for black or clear, so went for black. Also got a Borderline sticker! Thanks Robin for the tip.

Peter
AnswerID: 181488

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