JJ posted:

How can they isolate familes travelling with a caravan to those with a campervan or motorhome? Ban one; ban all or allow one; allow all. Doesn't make sense.

About a year ago it was illegal to camp within 15 kms of any town/caravan park in WA which is fair enough as they need to make a living & we all need to frequent them.
although when possible we do go off on microwave tower tracks, gravel pits etc. to camp.

Slightly off topic, but we did notice in WA that most roadside stops providing toilets and fire-places were sign-posted 'No Camping'.
IMO, a toilet is much more important for o'nighters than lunch or coffee breakers!

Wizzy posted:

There's a story in this month's Caravanning News giving details of where to comment on this latest infringement on caravanners' freedom. You can write to Lake Macquarie Council in NSW or phone them on 02 4921 0333. Good luck.

Dennis
www.damor.net

Leroy posted:

you should have a 15 min power nap......oh you're towing a van.....please move along...

Leroy

Notso posted:

Yes, I can imagine the Ranger telling me to move on then wondering what to do when I tell him I just pulled over to have a sleep because I am soooo tired I thought I may have an accident if I didn't have me power nap.

Des Lexic posted:

And what if while in that free rest stop you had had a couple of alcoholic drinks and who would then be able to force you to drive on. Methinks nobody would be prepared to accept that liability in those circumstances.

Off-track posted:

Aah good one!

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Who the hell would want to stay on the roadside for days/weeks!?

Drinking in a roadside stop - they'd probally do you for street drinking, soon you'll have to get a ranger or cop to hold your willy for you while you take a piss...

robak (QLD) posted:

...and you can also be done for drink driving beacuse you are still "in charge" of the vehicle.

Rokkitt posted:

Robak, is that true if the keys are removed from the ignition???

robak (QLD) posted:

As far as I know, yes, because when you're drunk you don't think straight and do stupid things - like drive a car.

I heard there were cases of guys sleeping in the back of the ca after a party, because they didn't want to drive, and got charged for DD.

So when on the side of a road, always have at least one person with you who is responsible for the cars and is not drinking.

R.

Member - Scott M (NSW) posted:

I doubt it - they can only charge you for DUI if you are operating the vehicle. If they started booking drivers because they had pulled over, I would imagine there would be a hue & cry about it...

Member - Blue (VIC) posted:

A mates father was done for DUI when he went out to his car to get his phone(he was getting it do call his wife to pick him up)... He challenged it in court and lost. As far as the law was concerned, as soon as he opened the drivers door he was in charge of the vehicle... End of story. This was about 10 years ago in Maryborough(Vic) so I don't know if things have changed.

Doggy Tease posted:

For a copper to charge you with DUI, you must firstly have been drinking. Then, if the keys are in your hand and your sitting in the drivers seat, the copper can book you. Also if you are the only person in the car and the keys are in the ignition, then you can be booked.
If you have the keys in your hand and are sitting in the passenger seat, they cant book you,,,,unless you can drive form the passenger seat...lol.
You cant be booked in you are drunk, asleep in the back and the keys are on the floor, but if the keys are in the ignition,,,you can be booked.
If you are standing at the passenger door with the keys in your hand they cant book you,,,,but at the drivers door the can.
It all comkes down to positioning of your lil ole body, and where the bloody keys are,,,,,so just leave them on the floor, or the camper, and then get to the drinking......:)

meow.

rick.

robak (QLD) posted:

Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995

s 79
(1) Any person who whilst under the influence of liquor or a
drug—
drives a motor vehicle, tram, train or vessel;
or attempts to put in motion a motor vehicle, tram, train or vessel;
or "is in charge of a motor vehicle," tram, train or vessel;
is liable to a maximum penalty of 60 penalty units or 18
months imprisonment.

What "in charge of a motor vehicle" means is to be interpreted by the judge with advice from two opposing and very expensive lawyers.

However;

(6) (edited)
Where upon the hearing of an offence, the court is satisfied that the defendant had an intention of refraining from driving that motor vehicle, the court shall not convict the defendant of the offence charged.

Clear as that goo you tried to drive through last weekend?

If the law was black and white we wouldn't need lawyers, and where would the world be without lawyers?

R

R

Gramps (NSW) posted:

"where would the world be without lawyers?"

A far, far better place with a few million scumbags less :)))))

Trevor R (QLD) posted:

Not really related to DUI but still a silly interpretation of the law nonetheless.

A mate of mine had run out of petrol and was pushing his motorbike to the petrol station, rested his helmet on the mirror and pushed away. He was deemed to be in control of a motorbike whilst not wearing a helmet, Now that's common sense for you.

Trevor.

scoof posted:

You beat me too it Des, they are not getting a lot of support in the loacl rag , and not from me either.

Gu_Patrol posted:

"you can legally stay for up to 24 hrs virtually anywhere" a long as your vehicle is not attached to your caravan and the length is not more than 7 metres.
That law might have changed over the years in SA

Member - John R (NSW) posted:

I agree that doing any sort of activity (operating any machinery) when tired is dangerous. I could see an easy out to the caravan park operator's whinge, Hairy.

"Sorry ossifer. I tried to stop at the local caravan park, but we arrived pretty late and the office was closed. In the interest of road safety, we decided that we are too tired to continue on any further, and therefore are having a rest here" :-)

It might work....

I'd be interested to see what the occupancy rate is in that park. Perhaps people don't want to stay there for some reason?

Hairy posted:

The caravan park I spoke of is a really good one ( probably the best in Alice) and the owner is worth a squillion dollars. Just greedy I think!
As far as excuses it probably wont be the police you come across, and the council dont venture far out of town anyway, but yeh, anyone who did chat you about parking there would probably only give you a warning If they were any sort of reasonable person and an excuse like Im too tired to travel any further would work! If not ! Id give him a mouthfull and reality check he'd never forget!
I agree with not useing truck parks as they dont have too many places they can get off the road but as for car parks, that is what they are for!!
I see overseas back packers ( trying to not spend too much money in our country)camped in illegal places and ending up in all sorts of stupid predicaments and the Gov. seems to to nothing about it, but pick on Aussies spending their hard earned money in our own country!
Thats my bitch!!
Cheers

Member - Pesty (SA) posted:

You are probably right Ken, but I would think Fatigue would over ride all laws, we are constanly reminded to rest if tired, and some people can get tired in 4 hrs and others in 8,10, 12 etc, or what if you couldnt sleep the night b4, there are a dozen reasons you would need to rest, what if you are diabetic? and I for one would need to be towed.
My father in law has tavelled for 15 years around oz, and sometimes has gone 9 months without staying in a park, and has been challenged by some real __ssholes, usually people without any clout, but he is a fighter and he has suffered migrane headaches for most of his life and as soon as he hits them up for a "signed and dated written notice to move on", they make feble excuses and leave.
Never has he had to move, and he isnt a drinker. Yes the caravan parks need to make a living, just like any business, so isnt it up to them to market themselves properly, just like the other businesses in town?
Why should they get a free ride?
There are heaps of travellers who wont stay anywhere else but a park , and plenty now who dont tow so they are always in cabins etc.
They tried this crapp in Qld, and then all of a sudden the parks were over full and they were turning people away and out onto the streets again because they couldnt cope!
I like to look for an outa way place up a back track or side road, and camp next to a farmers back paddock gateway or some other sort of clearing.
See you there.

Cheers Pesty

Member - Roachie (SA) posted:

What Pesty said!!!!

kev.h posted:

if you ask the officer to sign a declaration that he has requested you move on after you explained that you are fatiqued and suffering a migraine and do not feel safe to continue then point out that he has then to take full resposiibilith for your safety i'll bet he says have a nice sleep
kev

Robert posted:

I would bet that you would be told to take a power nap, and if still parked when they later returned, fined!

Member - andrew B (Kununurra) posted:

no, you would still pay the fines - no parking metres out on the highway, and no parking attendants.

fisho64 posted:

my point exactly, just cos there are no meters doesnt mean it is less illegal?
Im not saying it is right to move people on from camping, but there are some pretty silly excuses here. If I was a copper and went to move someone on who was illegally camped, and they said "Im a diabetic and cant drive (even though they just went past a caravan park)" then I would be thinking "maybe you are not medically capable of having a licence then?"

fisho64 posted:

come on mate, people who have heavy truck licences (any licence for that matter) should have a degree of intelligence that tells them to plan ahead and not just drive 8 hours and stop anywhere they bl..dy feel like it.
And they dont need to move you on, just give you the fine as you have already broken the law whether you move on or not.

Doggy Tease posted:

Actually if you had bothered to go to one of theMain Roads Department websites, you would have seen that a operator of a heavy vehicle can drive(in W.A. at least) a max of five (5) hours before a mandatory rest break, and then may continue for another five (5) before another rest break, up to a max(generally) of 12 hours. There are exceptions to this rule however that must be taken into consideration.
Heavy vehicle runs are usually pretty well planned out before departure, but it doesn't take much for the best laid timetable to go awry, so there are provisions along the road for trucks to stop, and the driver get the full required rest every night.
It has been proven that the worst time for a human being to be driving is when they are most fatiqued, generally between the hours of midnight and 6am.
Once again, there are provisions in the rules, because not everrybody runs on the same body clock.
Basically, if you are tired, or have had aful day behind thewheel,,,,,pull over and save yourself the grief of having a accident. Over here, the police regularly target Driver Fatigue, especially during holiday periods, so there is little doubt in my mind that if you inform a copper that you are in fact tired, they WILL NOT book you for parking in a rest area.

meow.

rick.

Off-track posted:

Not true Fisho. A truckie (nor anybody) cannot plan to be at a certain place to rest at exactly 8hrs time (or whatever the mandated driving limit is). He is certainly not going to waste an hour of legal driving time just so he can pull over in a 'designated' spot because the next one is a couple of hours down the road.

fisho64 posted:

get real. The rest stops are not 5 or 8 hours apart. mostly they are 1/2 hour maybe 40 minutes apart. Its up to the truckie if he wants to break the law by going over exactly the same as if a pallet of (say) 1 tonne puts him 100kg over, does he waste 900kg of load space or risk it.
What are you saying, that he just stops where he gets to at 8 hours no matter what? then he is an idiot. If you read the letter from the minister it is eay to see that they are trying to stop people abusing what is available by using common sense, not by legislating against everything.

Anyway WTF are you arguing about what truckies can and cant do? My understanding is that part of this is to ensure that they DO have somewhere to pull over, not blocked up by some idiot parked in the middle of the roadtrain stopping area?
Common sense that (apparently) needs the law to back it up?

Off-track posted:

Er, maybe because you brought it up in the first place??? Yes a truckie will often pull over at a non-designated parking bay if it is safe, firm and big enough to do so. Have a look at the crests of hills next time you are on the open highway and you will see what I am talking about. He is not breaking the law so no he is not an idiot, but your argument on the other hand could have been written by one.

Agreed that this new council by-law may assist truckies in finding space in truck parking bays but remember that they are only talking about camping within close proximity of a town, not out in the sticks.

fisho64 posted:

"All of it is directly related to drivers, no matter what you are driving, tho for us truckies, we can get a real good rap over the knuckle's if we disobey the rules. "

go back to where the followup started and you will see where truckies were brought into it.

Gramps (NSW) posted:

Aaaaawwwww Truckie, don't start that one again :))))

Hairy posted:

Problem Solved!!
Well done mate, common sense prevails.
Good bit of info.
Might be worth coping to some folder on this site if possible?
Cheers

fisho64 posted:

Great website you have there!!
About the letter, I thought that was a great response.
To try to hammer out an exact definition of any of that would be to try to eliminate common sense so I think to pursue that avenue is detrimental.
They have put something in place to combat people who take up truckies parking bays and people who want to abuse the priviledge, without banning everyone which is the easy way.