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Waceo Fridge Cut Out

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 18:26

RippinRutman

G'day all.

I am having trouble with my fridge constantly showing the error (red) light on my CF60 Waceo fridge if the car is not started for more than 24 hours.

I installed a 75 amp hour battery and thought this would be more than enough to cover it. I use my ARB fluro at night for about 2-4 hours as well.

I am returning from Cape York and the instructions are at home so any assistance would be appreciated.

Cheers

Steve Rutter
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ThreadID: 36363 Replies: 9
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AnswerID: 186550   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 18:30

Footloose replied:

Sounds like voltage drop in the cable to me ?
Reply 1 of 9
FollowupID: 443957   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 10:45

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Yep, that would be my first guess with no other info. Either that or bad connections in crips, fuses or plugs.

Froma realy rough calc, I reckon your probally during about 50 amp hours out of the battery in 24hours, so thats still working the battery to more than 50% capacity, that and a little voltage drop could easily make the LVC trip in the fridge. Maybe a 100 amp hour would have been a better option. That way you would not be discharging the batt over 50% and it would work much better and last longer.

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FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 186559   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 19:22

Max - Sydney replied:

Steve

There is a three position switch marked something like "Low - Med - High".

On high it will turn of the fridge at quite a high voltage - on low it lets it run till the battery is quite low, but gives you the annoying red light. Ignore it, provided you are running off an auxiliary battery. You could get rid of it by putting in very heavy cables and direct wiring, but I suspect it will still sometimes flash.

Its just conservative settings - with an auxiliary you can run it much lower voltage than when the red light comes on, based on much agonised checking out.

Why bother to return from the Cape - its still winter down here?

Max
Reply 2 of 9
FollowupID: 443677   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 22:53

Member - Pesty (SA) posted:

Hi Steve,
You will find , if not a fridge fault which is the least likely problem, that it is a voltage problem, either to thin a wire, a crook plug, or in my case it was a faulty battery kill switch.
If you are unable to fix it b4 you get home, run it on emergency, thats the red slide switch at the bottom, and your fridge will bypass all the electronics, and just run all the time, so put it on each day while travelling and switch it back to normal at night. DONT FORGET TO SWITCH IT BACK.

Max you are not correct , the 3 setting switch is for compressor speeds, low is 2000 RPM, med is 2500 RPM, and high is 3000 RPM, and if you push turbo button the fridge will run at 3500 RPM until it reaches the selected temp and then return to normal. If you put your ear against the case when running and change the switch you can hear the compressor change speeds. The fan speed stays the same.
Do not ignore the red light, it is telling you there is something wrong.
Ill bet your fridge is starting up and running for short periods and switching off again and then back on again in a short time. It will get warmer if it keeps doing this.
I have had a waeco on board for several years and it goes 24/7 so i have had a lot to do with this unit. best of luck, and yes why come home its cold down south ??? hahaha

Cheers Pesty

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FollowUp 1 of 18
FollowupID: 443725   Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 09:30

Redback posted:

Pesty according to my Waeco manual on my CF40AC the "low-med-high" switch is the voltage cut 3 stage battery protection, low 10.4v cut out, med 11.7 cut out, and high 12.4 cut out.

These compressor speeds maybe right too, but it's main thing is battery protection.

Baz.
FollowUp 2 of 18
FollowupID: 443730   Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 09:48

Member - andrew B (Kununurra) posted:

From memory, the 80l waeco 3 way switch is compressor speeds, but on smaller models it is the voltage protection adjustment. Its probably not a bad thing the Waeco manual is at home. I found it vague and not very informative. The error light on the 80l I have, flashes when battery is low, But I noticed once that it would flash 3 times, pause, then flash 3 times etc etc. Not a mention of this in the manual, but a bit of scientifice research I found that this happens when the power is disconnected for a short time and when it is re-connected there must be a bit of pressure on the compressor still, so it won't start until it drops. It usually takes about 3 min. Air conditioners will do the same.

Cheers Andrew
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FollowUp 3 of 18
FollowupID: 443844   Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 19:39

Member - Pesty (SA) posted:

OK guys, sorry, sounds like I maybe wrong on that , seems like the smaller ones are different, but my 110 litre is that way according to the limited manual.
Thanks for the correction.

Cheers Pesty

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FollowUp 4 of 18
FollowupID: 443929   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 08:51

Redback posted:

With your fridge totally correct, so no need for an apoligy mate, i was only stating what the limited manual said about my 40l fridge, like you i thought maybe they are all the same.

Baz.
FollowUp 5 of 18
FollowupID: 443958   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 10:47

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Gee whiz!! 12.4v cut out, holy crap with that lower voltage it'd only run for half an hour on a reasonably well used battery. Once a battery is over a couple of years old it'd probally be lucky to hold 12.5v at rest. I spose that would be good if you only had a single battery setup and didn't intend on running your fridge for more than a few hours while setup for lunch or somthing.

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FollowUp 6 of 18
FollowupID: 443960   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 10:51

Redback posted:

I suspect that it would be for a single battery setup, still a great idea, most 12v fridges don't have any battery protection.

Baz.
FollowUp 7 of 18
FollowupID: 443962   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 10:56

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Yeah it's kinda cool you can change it, just pitfall for the unsuspecting I guess. My super creapy compressor fridge cut's out at 10.7v but that's more to protect the compressor than the battery.

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FollowUp 8 of 18
FollowupID: 443973   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 11:16

Mad Dog - Vic posted:

>most 12v fridges don't have any battery protection.

All fridges with the danfoss compresssor should have a cutout to protect the compressor from low voltage which will kill it.




FollowUp 9 of 18
FollowupID: 443976   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 11:20

Redback posted:

OK then " NOT ALL fridges have any battery protection"

Sheesh, picky picky ;-))
FollowUp 10 of 18
FollowupID: 443980   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 11:35

Mad Dog - Vic posted:

Not picky at all, the manufactures don't put the cutout in to protect the battery, they couldn't give a stuff if your battery goes flat. The cutout is to protect the danfoss compressor, low voltage will kill it leaving a lot of angry customers knocking on their door.




FollowUp 11 of 18
FollowupID: 443985   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 11:46

Redback posted:

OK so this is a wrong

Coolmatic CF-40 AC
Price $999
Dimensions W360 x H445 x L580mm (L710 with handles)
Weight 16.8 kg
Capacity 40 Litres, Holds 47 cans
Voltage 12/24/240 Volts
Temperature Range 50°C below ambient
Warranty 5 years warranty on the kompressor motor, 3 years on everything
Other - German made Danfoss BD-35F Kompressor
- Ideal in confined spaces: removable lid
- 3 stage battery protection and emergency function

Taken from the Waeco web site
FollowUp 12 of 18
FollowupID: 443991   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 12:03

Mad Dog - Vic posted:

is it, just markerting talk Baz, they put the cutout in to protect the compressor which in turn protects the battery. If the compressor wasn't harmed by low voltage they probably wouldn't put the cutout in the fridge. sheesh




FollowUp 13 of 18
FollowupID: 443992   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 12:06

Redback posted:

hahahaha OK you win Ray, lol.
FollowUp 14 of 18
FollowupID: 443995   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 12:16

Mad Dog - Vic posted:

lol, I've always taken you as being a clever bloke Baz, since you brought the Disco anyway.




FollowUp 15 of 18
FollowupID: 444084   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 17:16

Member - andrew B (Kununurra) posted:

I'll give waeco a little credit here, they have given some consideration to the battery/vehicle, as thay have given 3 operator selectable voltages, not just the one which would protect the compressor adequately...

Cheers Andrew
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FollowUp 16 of 18
FollowupID: 444176   Submitted: Friday, Aug 04, 2006 at 07:19

Pajman Pete (SA) posted:

I like the way one of the critical specs is the number of cans it will hold ...

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FollowUp 17 of 18
FollowupID: 444178   Submitted: Friday, Aug 04, 2006 at 07:46

Member - andrew B (Kununurra) posted:

I have a good laugh at that one too Pete - puts it all into a perspective we can all relate to and understand. From memory, a few years back they used to referance beer cans, but possibly changed to just cans for political correctness

Cheers Andrew
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FollowUp 18 of 18
AnswerID: 186571   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 19:52

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators replied:

Hi Steve,

Thin cables can cause voltage drop but a 75 a/h battery is not very big. Remember you will need to drive 4 hours a day to have enough power in the battery for the next 24 hours. Your light will be using about 2 or 3 amps over the 4 hours which will also decrease the fridge run time.

Regards Derek.
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Reply 3 of 9
FollowupID: 443959   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 10:49

Member - Jeff M (WA) posted:

Yes I agree, if the ARB light is the same as my primus (which I think it is, it's even the same colour!) it draws 1 amp continuous, they are a brilliant light but 4 hours is 4 amps. I run my light in winter sometimes for 8-10 hours. We might switch it on as early as 5pm if we are camped in a vally and it might not get turned off till after midnight.

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FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 186574   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 19:59

cackles replied:

we had this problem with our cf60 turns out it was a faulty power supply.
Get it checked out properly, they tried to fob us off with the whole 'it's your wiring' 'it's your battery' thing but finally after replacing the power supply 3 times they gave us a new fridge.

cackles
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AnswerID: 186610   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 21:50

Member - Vince B (NSW) replied:

Hi Steve.
I had the same problem last year while touring outback Qld.When I returned home I switched my connection to an anderson plug & the problem was fixed.
Regards.
Vince
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Reply 5 of 9
AnswerID: 186629   Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 01, 2006 at 22:35

Hairy replied:

Yep, All of the above mate could be a combination of all of them. Try with the switch first, if not run a heavier feed from your battery otherwsie run your car and keep your fridge going till you get home and take it to your waeco dealer.
Good Luck
Cheers
Reply 6 of 9
AnswerID: 186672   Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 09:02

raunchy replied:

HI Steve, the High Med Low switch is the switch which sets the voltage at which sets the voltage at what level the fridge shuts down to protect the battery. Set it on Low and see what happens.
I think your battery may be a bit small if you are not driving every day
The amp rating of you battery is as follows. A 75 Ah battery means you can draw 3.75 Amps an hour every hour for 20 hours. If you go over this, the battery becomes less efficient and will not last as long, i.e if you draw 7.5 Amps an hour you will not get 10 hours running. Based on what you have running your battery should be fine if you are driving every day, and depending in what the outside influences on the fridge are, i.e how often it is opened and restocked, and the ambient temperature, it may be possible to get a couple of days out of it. You fridge will draw 5-6 amps when running, if it is running 30% cycle, you are drawing 1.8-2 amps/hr. If you are running 50% cycle coz the weather is hot and you open the fridge lots, then you will be drawing 2.5-3 Amps/hr.

Wiring is the single largest issue with Waecos playing up. If you have good wiring most problems dissapear. Waecos draw more current but operate for shorter period than an engel, thus even though they draw similair from your battey over time, Wiring problems are exposed more readily. At times I run a CF 50 an a CF 25, both have the same compressor as yours. I have 10 sq mm wiring to anderson plugs, run the 25 as a freezer and run an ARB light for 1-2 hours when away. I have a 105Ah battery. I can squeeze 24+ hours out of this if it is not too hot and I dont open the fridge too much

Also you will need to chuck out the cig plug, I have also found the hella plugs to be unreliable. And rewire your fridge directly to the battery, make sure you fuse the cabling in case of a short. Using Anderson connectors is the way to go.

Hope this helps
Regards Ray
Reply 7 of 9
FollowupID: 443780   Submitted: Wednesday, Aug 02, 2006 at 13:41

Member - Mike DID posted:

Ray

"3.75 Amps an hour every hour "
- the unit for instaneous current draw is amps. You could refer to it as amphours per hour because each hour you will take 3.75 amphours from the battery every hour.

The battery's capacity is measured in amphours, and you simply subtract used amphours from the original capacity (corrected by Peukerts Law). It's meaningless to subtract amps used from amphours capacity - you can only subtract identical units.

"You fridge will draw 5-6 amps when running"
- this is correct usage.

"drawing 1.8-2 amps/hr. "
- this should be amphours per hour. Or alternatively amps average.

I am not surprised that there is such inconsistent use of these terms - many websites and magazine articles get it wrong.
Mike R
FollowUp 1 of 1
AnswerID: 186867   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 09:02

raunchy replied:

Hi Mike,
Just trying to make it easy to understand. The point I was trying to make I think is made pretty well. If you have a battery with 75Ah on it. what does it mean??? Does it mean I can draw 75 Amps from it in an hour before it is flat?? I have found that most automotive type deep cycle batteries are rated to a 20 hour rate. Whereas Solar, UPS etc batteries are rated at the 10 hour rate. This is due to their construction and peukerts law is taken into account in the number of hours the battery is rated at supplying the said current. If you can find the info on the batteries, sometimes it is hard. the manufacturers will state 75Ah @C20. So for this battery you can draw 3.75 Amps per Hour (or Ampere hours) every hour for 20 hours (3.75X20=75). A good battery should also give you a c3 rate, which is the rate you discharge over 3 hours, but I have not found this to be the case with Auto batteries. The other factor to take into account is the temperature as this effects the batteries considerably, most batteries are tested at 20 deg celcius
As part of my job, I have designed, installed, commissioned and removed thousands of battery systems in the last few years alone, from solar and wind systems to UPS and backup systems.
Reply 8 of 9
FollowupID: 443969   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 11:07

Member - Mike DID posted:

"for this battery you can draw 3.75 Amps per Hour (or Ampere hours) every hour for 20 hours (3.75X20=75). "

- the only point I am trying to make is to get people to use terms correctly to reduce the confusion caused by the errors which are currently (haha) widespread on websites and forum posts.

Instantaneous current draw is expressed as "amps" ("amphours per hour" is technically correct but not used)

Total current consumption is expressed in "ampere hours" or "amphours"

"amps per hour" is meaningless, it's like saying "litres per hour per hour" because "amps" is instantaneous flow and is equivalent to "litres per hour".

I've been specifying, designing, building, testing and selling electrical and electronic systems for 35 years.
Mike R
FollowUp 1 of 4
FollowupID: 444142   Submitted: Thursday, Aug 03, 2006 at 21:40

raunchy posted:

Mike,
Somewhat confused, Appliances draw current in Amps. chargers are rated in Amps or watts (or thats what every meter and discharge panel I have ever seen reads, or in Coulombs), Batteries are rated in Ah. If you draw 30 amps for 20 minutes, you get 10 Ah or, 10 Amps per hour or 10 Ampere hours........ I know there is some limitations WRT efficiency, but thats the way it is. If something is drawing 30 amps it is drawing 30 amps. You need to take into account the time it is drawing that amount of current and in the case of a fridge this is important as the fridge doesnt run all the time.
Enough said.
Ray

FollowUp 2 of 4
FollowupID: 444171   Submitted: Friday, Aug 04, 2006 at 00:06

Member - Mike DID posted:

Ray - all of this is correct - except for "10 Amps per hour".

"10 Amps per hour" is not the same as 10 Ah or 10 Ampere hours. It is Amps TIMES hours, not amps PER hour.
Mike R
FollowUp 3 of 4
FollowupID: 444172   Submitted: Friday, Aug 04, 2006 at 00:40

raunchy posted:

Mike, You are correct, in my haste to qualify myself, I mistakenly used the terms you describe above incorrectly ( to a certain extent). One relates to Appliances and Chargers the other to capacity of batteries. However, 10 Amps per hour could well be exactly the same as 10 Ah or 10 Ampere hours if the battery was rated accordingly, (i.e at the 1 hour rate), which we both know is not the case.
We are hijacking this post, so if you wish to discuss further please email me at rayhart@rsrtech.com.au I would like to get our selves on the same page so we can offer genuine positive feedback to the exploroz site
FollowUp 4 of 4
AnswerID: 187034   Submitted: Friday, Aug 04, 2006 at 08:51

Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics replied:

Allright guys there is a fault with the new cf60 range of waeco fridge inside the have a sort of fuse that is building up to much resistance and causing the fridge to error you will find it will run perfectly on 240v and not on 12v so take it back to an authorised waeco repair agent and you will be on you're way againd cheers
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Reply 9 of 9

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