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Overly simple dual battery setup

Submitted: Sunday, Sep 03, 2006 at 08:34

Arkay - Adelaide

This forum is for caravanners as well as 4WD. There has been a lot of talk about dual battery setups, controllers, wiring etc. on the forum.
My 4WD pulls a caravan and runs the 12v fridge and charges the caravan battery at the same time. There do not appear to be any special battery control boxes or anything. There is a relay to isolate the fridge & van battert when the ignition is not turned on.
So why, when one instals a second battery in the engine compartment, does one need those complicated and seemingly expensice, systems.
And then - you can get a portable Waeco Thumper battery or similar, and with a heavy duty wire run/charge this in the back of the 4WD or even in a passenger car. You are supposed to be able to run a car fridge like an Engel/Waeco off that battery at the same time, or run the fridge directly off a plug in the car (no portable battery). Again no control boxes or anything.
Perhaps one may tow the caravan AND run a portable battery or car fridge together at the same time.
Does all this mean that the alternator and vehicle wiring is about to expire or catch fire? If not, then why does one need a complicated setup for an under the bonnet dual battery system in a 4WD?
I look forward to some informed responses. Thanks.
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AnswerID: 192430   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 03, 2006 at 08:54

Member - andrew B (Kununurra) replied:

Gday Arkay

I think its a matter of different strokes for different folks (and system requirements) I have a simple solenoid for under bonnet. I like it as I have both betteries in parallell while winching etc. Smart solenoids generally don't allow this. A downfall is it may hide a weak starting battery, as they are in paralell when the ignition is turned on, so in the case of a stuffed start battery the aux will 'jump start' the car.

Then you go bush, run the aux down with the fridge, and then in the morning I may not be able to start the car.

Basically, If your wireing is heavy enough to handle the loads you place on it, and you have appropriate fuses etc you won't start a fire, but if you ask too much of a system which is not set up correctly you will have problems.

Best thing to do is research what others have, weigh up the pro's and cons of peoples systems, then pick the one that suits your needs and budget the best.

Good luck

Cheers Andrew
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Reply 1 of 5
AnswerID: 192431   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 03, 2006 at 08:55

Member - Brian (Gold Coast) replied:

I agree, in that the dual battery ssytem should be as simple as possible. I used solenoids for the last three years, have now graduated to a Redarc, but only because of their reputation for being reliable. So far so good, as long as I don't have to change it every 8 or 9 months like I did with the solenoids.
But personally, I can't see the point in anything more "tech" than that.
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Reply 2 of 5
AnswerID: 192457   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 03, 2006 at 10:18

Member - Mike DID replied:

It doesn't even have to be as complicated as a Solenoid - I spent three months outback travelling using just a manual Isolating Switch between Main and Auxiliary Battery. When you stopped to camp, you turned to the switch off. When you were leaving camp, you turned the switch on.

Reliability through simplicity - providing you aren't forgetful !
Mike R
Reply 3 of 5
FollowupID: 450303   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 03, 2006 at 11:05

Member - andrew B (Kununurra) posted:

Gday Mike

The 3 way switch in my boat is my favourite - 1, both, 2, off. how simple can it get! I have also heard they can be set up better on the -ve rather than the +ve, but it has to be done the right way so your starter motor doesn't decide to use the HF radio as an earth!

Nearly put the same switch in the car, but got lazy.

Cheers Andrew
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FollowUp 1 of 3
FollowupID: 450309   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 03, 2006 at 11:49

Member - Mike DID posted:

Andrew - just be aware of ANYTHING that reduces the reliability of the connection between the Alternator and the Main Battery.

It could result in the death of your Alternator of the connection opens while under full charge.

Have a look at Site Link - "First, if the battery selector is turned off when the alternator is charging, there will be bad consequences. The alternator and alternator regulator are likely to be destroyed, along with other electronics which happen to be turned on at the time. Electrical transient can reach several hundred volts for a few hundred milliseconds ...enough to fry all onboard electrical equipment. "
Mike R
FollowUp 2 of 3
FollowupID: 450315   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 03, 2006 at 12:06

Member - andrew B (Kununurra) posted:

Gday Mike

Thats an interesting read. Funnily enough I origionally had a key type isolater and it fell apart, I noticed the volts on the voltmeter (boat - Honda 90 HP {4cyl civic block}) and was worried about flat batteries, remote area at sea etc, when I noticed the plastic bits down the back. Did a bodgey fix with the motor still running and volt meter went back to 14 v. It was a bit of a hard decision not to turn the motor off - chance of frying altenator etc, but also chance of not getting it started again.

On my old MQ I used to have, a small wire running back to the altenator was broken, basically leaving it unregulated. Batteries survived, but blew nearly every globe in the car. Luckily nothing much electronic in the MQ, but the globes were a PITA.

I would like to think the fuses etc would take care of the spike and everything wouldn't fry, but it is amazing (and scarey) the paths that electricity chooses to take if it can.

Ended up with a simple solenoid in the car, and I'm pretty wary of the 3 way switch in the boat. From what happened in the boat, it seemed to stop charging and produce low volts - perhaps the Honda mob are a step ahead of us mere mortals and have a system that requires the battery to regulate the alternator up instead of down.......

Cheers Andrew
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FollowUp 3 of 3
AnswerID: 192467   Submitted: Sunday, Sep 03, 2006 at 11:32

Derek from Affordable Batteries & Radiators replied:

Hi Arkay,

The main reason for these components is to obtain the best charge rate and reliability with everything being automatic.

You have a battery in your van. There are still some vans out there with no battery. Why ? People like to have things that work and have luxury when they are away from home. Having a good 12V power supply and charge system makes this easy.

Read my Battery Article

Regards Derek.
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AnswerID: 193489   Submitted: Friday, Sep 08, 2006 at 13:51

longJohn replied:

I had a old rocky i used to drive to fraser, and with a fridge, second battery system, just had a standard 40A relay connecting the second battery to the alternator. It was wired up so ignition on, relay on. Ignition off, relay off, both batteries seperated. Had another relay with NC contacts wired up to the starter motor start signal (solenoid) , so when it was cranking, the second battery was isolated so cranking current didnt flow from the second battery. Had many critisise my system but it worked flawlessly and I still use that battery in my new 4wd.

Heres a story that happened to a mate, he had all the fancy gear, intellegent battery system (what does it do other than disconnect during initial charging???) and went to moreton island. As soon as the tyres hit the sand coming off the barge, his radio stopped. Then they lost a bolt out of the brakes, spent hours looking for it, got a new one arranged at the local shop and went to the campsite, and then the fridge stopped because the second battery was flat. Found that the alternator had not charged since the barge and had a blown regulator. They pulled it apart and soldered a wire direclty to the armature and connected it to a bulb to earth to give the alt some exitation so it would charge. Found that while driving, with the bulb hooked up, it outputted 16volts. with it disconnected of course it was off. So they spent the next week with it sometimes connected sometimes not to give everything a charge. Switching on all the accessories and spotties to use some of the voltage up helped things a bit, but they were very glad to get a new regulator finally to get back to normal!
Meanwhile they found a bolt had fallen out of the brakes on the other side and they had to go back to the shop for another bolt :~!!
Reply 5 of 5