Are we getting too complex?

In answer to your question, YES!

One mechanic I spoke to (who will remain anonymous), said he was having to go down to Adelaide for a week every 6 months to keep up certification on the 100 series. Major pain in the a*** for a one man operation. Said he wasn't even going to bother with it with the new 130's when they came out and was probably going to let the cert. for 100 series lapse. It would be less hassle to stick them on the back of a truck and send them south. He would be quite happy fixing up 40, 60, 70 and to a lesser extent 80 series. This was a well appointed garage, and he wasn't old and stuck in his ways (late 20 or early 30's).

I think you are right Scott, it is one of the reasons we went back to the 'old technology' - fully mechanical TDi Defender.

Good luck.

Scott, Very good point and a very valid one. I couldn't agree more. Compare a 2006 Range Rover vs your HJ47 being broken down in the middle of nowhere, an electrical fault being the suspect, you'd be up and running within a few hours and the Rangie would be on a tow truck en route to the nearest capital city dealership. The bells and whistles are nice sometimes however the simplicity of something like a FJ40, HJ47 and the others make it more fun. You have the real deals using Mineral Oils and the plastic fantastics using the Synthetics..! LOL

You can't hold back technology, but I'm all for slowing it down sometimes. By the way your HJ47 looks a treat, I'd be checking her out as well.!

Good point Scott.

One reason I have not upgraded to a newer electonically controlled fuel injected diesel, or to a 4wd with electronic ABS and MATT.
Like you, 2nd reason is the cost.

Makes you wonder how much a modern toyo/nissan/mitsu 4wd would cost with just the basics and the rest deleted?
Maybe why the Terracan and similar models a little cheaper, using slightly older technology by a couple of years.

Remember talking to Theo at Birdsville. He was saying (If I remember correctly) that 50% of his recoveries from the Simpson used to be drive train related, diff, gearbox etc. Now it has changed to 50% being engine/auto box management systems breaking down. 4wds don't seem to go over dunes as well on limp home mode :o). And you can not repair them in the desert with basic tools. They have to be brought out and analysised.

Interesting that my wife did one of those market group surveys about 5 years ago. You know the type of thing, looking for women who drove 4wds less than 5 years old to get feed back on future marketing. Of 20 women there, there was her and our pajero, a couple of other similar cars like LCs and prados, and the RRs, mercs and X5s, and a few light 4wds. She was absolutely amazed that she was the only one that had been any where like Birdsville, or the Cape, or Lawn Hill, or one of a about 4 that even been to Fraser Is. , being Brisabne based. She was the only one that had done a 4wd driver course. Alot of the others were aghast that she would drive the car where it might get stone chipped or bulldust in it. The idea of having a proceedure for after hitting a roo really turned them off. (You know stop and check it is dead, if not use the axe to put it out of it's misery.)

We had a GQ in the early 90's and it took us to lots of places and even when 50L of seawater got spilt inside (another story!) all I did was pull out the seats and carpet and hose it out. As I have changed cars every couple of years (leases) I would occassionally think back to the "simple romance" of the GQ UNTIL I drove my brother-in-law's Maverick. How rattly, wallowy, noisy, rough, primitive etc it was compared to whatever I was driving at the time! However, the Mav was probably 15 years old, done the various desserts etc and still going without a problem. I would be reluctant to keep any modern car far beyond the warranty.

Just some rambly thoughts as I sit at my desk at lunchtime, in front of a computer, eating my sushi......

Adrian

The truth is your right, but as right as you may be it's the way of the future with all 4WDs and if the small one man mechanics of the bush don't keep up then the only place you will be able to get your 4B fixed will be in the closest big city, and that would be the biggest PITA ever, and the locals of these small towns will suffer most.

Not to mention the travellers that will be stranded because the local mechanic can't fix your 4b and not because he can't.

An excample was a vehicle that had a simple torn airbag in Birdsville, car went into limp mode and had to be trucked to Mt Isa for repairs.
Now the vehicle could have been repaired buy the local mech but Toyota wouldn't let them.

Baz.

Of course your right Scott.

My first car was a 1975 Ford Escort, New Shape with the 1300 motor. I cut my teeth on that baby. Learnt all about mainenance, and mechanical repairs. I remember standing in a phone box on Elizabeth Drv Liverpool and getting advice from my dad on how to fic the carbie that was laid out on the shelf in the phone box. Now I'm not doing that with the diesel pump from the GU.

I actually considered buying one a few months back, 18yr old daughter needing a car seemed like a good excuse to indulge my sentimental love for these old cars.

Then I looked at one............................ and drove it........................we baught a 93 Camry for $3000 with 12 mnths rego.

While the 93 Camry isn't exactly cutting edge technology these days it was a long way better than 1975 and serves to make my point. My first 4wd was a 1980 MQ it was a good solid old girl but having lived with a GQ I wouldn't go back. A few months ago I had a ride in a GQ, again a good solid reliable old truck, comfortable too compared to the GQ but when I compare it to the GU it is really a lot more like a truck. The GU is heaps more comfortable and while it is no faster it is quicker from point to point because of that

Duncs

Emissions and evironmental considerations aside, yes vehicles are becoming unservicable beyond warranty. We have a diesel VW Golf which is a fantastic vehicle, but wouldn't keep it for 5mins past warranty. I can imagine what one of those injector pumps on every cylinder is worth. Also have a 60 Series diesel that we will keep for as long as possible, and if they were making new ones I would line up to buy. Rattles, a bit of dust and noise don't worry me, just reliability, capability and something I have a chance of repairing myself.

Totally agree, after having had Landcruisers (7 in all) for over 25years and being very disollusioned by the ever decreasing quality and lack of serviceability of the later models that is why I have an 18 year old Humvee, simple to fix, very reliable, indestructable and rides much better than most 'modern' 4wd's besides being much more capable and practical in the bush. Parts are cheap and freely available.
Another point to remember is that older vehicles are much friendlier to the environment when you consider the "cradle to the grave" scenario. Especially when the "service life" in the Humvee's case is 25 years.
I can't imagine too many of the current crop of 4wd's being an economical propostion in 10 years let alone 25.
The manufacturers want us to keep buying them so they are usually made to last the length of the warranty.
The day might come when someone uses consumer laws to take the manufacturers to task as the goods being sold are not 'fit for the purpose'.
I agree with Scott too the HJ47 we had was the best troopy of the four we had.

well, well, well are you getting too old ?
I have reapaired a 1966 VW Bus (changed clutch and took an engine apart) in -20 degree frost in the middle of nowhere (in 1977) and and other stories .. then I have been driving a 525BMW and a 380SE Merc various models full of electronics and never really had a problem ... one of my current vehicles is a 280SE Merc (year 84) already full of electronics and hydraulics (central locking, climate control etc). You are talking stone age with the engines you mention .. just as many people can not put up a website and IT people in a small town can not do a Macromedia Flash presentation does not mean it does not have its uses .. in many fields people have to educated themselves to follow times .. give an ipod to you 90 year old grandma .. does she know what to do with it ? .. many people are used to do basic work on a car .. right .. Do you do your house electrics ? here in Australia you need to be licensed .. what a cr@p .. where I come from you just do when you think you can do it .. only for certain situations you need a licensed person to do the certifying but not necessarily the work .. its all what you are used to and what you are willing to put in .. an OBDII tool nowadays is less than $500 for a laptop and you can see everything your engine does ...
the local mechanic can not fix a problem because he does not have the service equipment .. so what .. big deal .. with the new computer stuff you can diagnose much better .. monitor things closer before they break .. electronic failure is not a serious as one may think .. every system has a limp mode and mostly its diagnostics ... when an injector goes bad .. ok so you drive with one less until you can get one delivered ... This is not just to have an opposite position .. I conciously made that decision when I purchased my new truck .. no warranty, no service from a manufacturer here in Australia .. so what .. pick a model which is reasonably tested (not first generation), wait until almost the end of the production cycle (then you know most problems and recalls) and then order it new (so you know what was done and who has driven it).. get all the diagnostics for your vehicle, learn how to use them and you should be right .. well I will see if I will be right :)))) ...
don't get me wrong.. I am not saying old technology is rubbish .. it's ok for some who do not want to learn and prepare and are willing to make the compromise (if there is one) ... less complex is often better .. but then again you are missing on certain things ..
how about an old PS2 with floppy drives (no hard drive) for editing 100MB image files ... simply not possible because you need 100+ floppies to store one image .. so you just can't ... you make choises and you make compromises ... I do not trust auto mechanics unless I have seen the diagnostics myself ... and there is nothing on my truck I would not be able to fix myself ... just a matter of how much time I spend learning my diagnostics ... you get all manufacturers handbooks for your vehicles so what has the little village mechanic you
don't have ? well maybe a decent lift when you need to get under the car ...
there are other examples ... e.g. you see so many people having trouble with broken frames or trailer axles .. etc etc needing a weld ... seen abandoned trailers because people did not want to spend the money on recovery or towing. Nowadays there are many ways of having portable equipment for welding. There are electronic welders weighing hardly 3Kg and not much larger than my wifes cosmetic case ... I make her leave the case at home and I take the welder instead.. ok I also have a generator and some of those welders don't like generators that much but you get combos to work .. I have a boat trailer and when I go anywhere with it for a long time I expect trouble .. sure you will get in trouble at some point .. so .. I carry a welder, and a small angle grinder and some steel bits and pieces..
and no ... I don't mind to spend an extra night to help others who don't ...
It's all about being prepared and when the vehicle becomes more complex you have to prepare better .. thats all .. in 20 or 30 years those simple engines will be gone .. and todays ones will be simple .. all a matter of perspective and age ????
have fun
gmd

Just as another comment.

Renault are developing the throw away engine.

Good for 100,000k, it auto tunes and does everything else it needs too for 100,000k.

One little problem is the oil. They are waiting for the right oil that will last 100,000k, so it never needs changing. Just change the engine every 100,000k. Cheaper to service that way.

I know, the japanese already have 50,000k engines. :o)