new 12HT conversion, engine cut out
Submitted: Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 15:41
looks like there are a lot of knowledgeable people on here hopefully someone can help me.
I just had a 12HT fitted replacing the 2H and it ran fine after a quick bleed. drove it fine for a day then went on a 600km nonstop drive. ran fine, used heaps of fuel though. it is blowing some smoke.
Driving it again around town and it just cut out and wont start again. it fires for a split second but doesnt continue. bled it but no air, stuck in a country town 600kms away from the people who installed it!!! any thoughts on what it could be. im thinking electrical or an oil cut off switch or something like that???
Thanks in advance all!
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Reply By: rob_sheeds - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 18:20
Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 18:20
been reading this forum
all day and i have learnt that there is no oil cut off?? im also thinking that the butterfly valve or wateva cuts the engine off is sticking not allowing it to start.
also it looks as though a few hoses on it arent connected but it ran fine till now??
please help!!!! its stuck on the side of the road and chances are its something simple...........
any comments are more than welcome........
Follow Up By: Footloose - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 19:30
Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 19:30
Clogged fuel filter ?
Reply By: Nav 8 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 19:14
Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 19:14
First thing to do is loosen a couple of injector lines at the injectors then crank the engine over to ensure you are getting fuel to the injectors. You should get a spit of fuel from each line. If there is no fuel the problem is at the pump as you say you can pump fuel through to the injector pump to bleed it and are getting a good flow.
I think from memory the 12HT has a electrical crank shut off device, make sure that is working when the engine is cranked over or unclip the arm from the pump and work the shut off manually to ensure the pump is in run
mode. Give that a try and see how you go....Nav.
Follow Up By: Nav 8 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 19:19
Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 19:19
Also check the oil level in the sump as I am sure they have an low oil pressure cut out switch... Nav.
Reply By: Graham & Lynne - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 19:40
Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 19:40
should have electric fuel cutoff solenoid on fuel pump.if crack injector line and no fuel check for power @ fuel cut off solenoid,if has power may be faulty solenoid undo it & remove plunger refit solenoid now engine should go but want turn off have to stall it, if manual.
Follow Up By: Graham & Lynne - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 19:43
Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 19:43
Also quick check if fuel problem will it start with aerostart.
Reply By: MintabiePete - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 20:19
Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 20:19
On the 12HT engine you should have an engine stop valve just below the intake , it may have jammed closed , the vacuum servo might be defective .
Just an Idea :)
Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 21:13
Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 at 21:13
Sounds like the stop flap has closed...Id be making sure its open then crank the motor....low oil pressure automatically stops these motors, make sure you have the wire on the oil pressure switch....open the tank and try startng it with cap off, fuel bleeds, so that must be ok....there isnt much that can gop wrong with these limos...fuel and air....
Follow Up By: rob_sheeds - Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 13:18
Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 13:18
I think you guys are on the money with the stop valve.........although i and others noticed when i picked it up there was a green terminal (fixed on side of enigine)from the fuel pump side of the engine with nothing commected to it, which to me looks like the oil pressure cut out, but it ran fine without it??
Bout to trek up and take another look at it, never had a prob with a H motor that wasnt fuel/air before so thanks all for the advice will keep you all posted.
Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 14:08
Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 14:08
I cant remember now how the 12ht works with injection of fuel.....there is a motor that pushes a lever on the pump...this lever controls injected volume...if it is pulled back, it is at zero fuel, if it is pushed forward 100% it is 120% fuel (choke) and if it is 3/4 forward it is full fuel and working off the throttle position...but the butterfly is vacuum operated by a small electrical valve and vacuum from the vacuum tank. Maybe, youve lost vacuum, and therefore lost movement open of valve. Maybe your electric leg has stopped working, if so, disconnect it and manually give the pump 3/4, and i will start and run
....all it wont do is stop with the key....dont use any aprt of your hand or body to choke it either,....u will end up in hospital.
Follow Up By: rob_sheeds - Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 15:20
Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 15:20
I looked at my bros 2h and the stop valve is different. The 12ht loos to haved a valve or manual stop valve coming out the side of the fuel pump. This is what i assumed was the fuel problem of it not opening/ moving when power goes to it.
I had someone click acc, then start it and it didnt move. i pushed it forward and tried starting it and thsi time there was no fire at all whereas before there was fire then cut out.
Im beginning to think that the oil pressure is the problem as i remember noticing that the oil pressure guage nevermoved up when revving from idle like my old 2H and another 2H i just looked at. I have tried looking in my manual and all over the net for a pic of where the switch comes out of the engine as there is one there that is green and has nothing connected to it. its just down and left of the fuel pump and inbetween what looks to be the oil pressure sender unit.
Also the guage never sat very high up towards high pressure.??
Thanks for the replies so far. Shouldve sold it and bought an imported 60 Sahara. Any more thoughts?
Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 16:01
Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 16:01
Rob, if pushing it forward, you get nothing, thats the way it goes when the key is turned off, push it the other way will give it choke.... make sure the butterfly on the inlet manifold is open, if it isnt remove it or manualise it with wire......u van also wire up the side lever on the pump to pull in the cabin to start..... use a piece of wood to choke the motor to stall if need be...lastly, look for a broken fuseable link on battery or fused wire or tripped circuit breaker that would stop the motor from moving the lever on the pump.....it must be that that is stopping it starting....last option is a can of Start ya bastard) to get it going....
Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Nullagine) - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 17:41
Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 17:41
Guys the 2h has the manuel stop lever controlled by the edic motor, the 12ht is completley different using a shutoff solonoid
Reply By: rob_sheeds - Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 15:22
Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 15:22
oh im keen to take a pic of the fuel pump side of the block and email it to anyone who is keen to help......
I can send an E-6pack with it!!!!!!
Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 20:50
Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 at 20:50
Any idea whether the 12H-T they fitted was a local 12volt motor, or an imported 24volt??
If it were the latter, then maybe the preheat element or EDIC motor are wanting 24volts??
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Reply By: jhorvat - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 12:51
Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 12:51
There is a solenoid valve in 12HT that keeps the fuel line open after you release the starter key. I had similar problem, the engine started up, but as soon as I released the key, it shut down. Problem was solved easily: the fuse for that valve was blown. Apparently, this may happen if you drive a lot on corrugations, making the fuse move and lose contact for a split of second, resulting in blow-up of the fuse.
Follow Up By: rob_sheeds - Saturday, Apr 21, 2007 at 20:40
Saturday, Apr 21, 2007 at 20:40
turns out i fiddled with a fuse they had wired in which must have been the edic / fuel solenoid or something and it runs a bit longer so thats the problem and i will have to solder it with an inline fuse.
Thanks for all the replies.
Reply By: Sam from Weipa Auto Electrics - Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 14:31
Monday, Apr 16, 2007 at 14:31
Yeah I would be checking all of you're fuse's if you have checked to make sure you are getting fuel other one is make sure you have a good body earth otherwise the edic motor might be shutting of thats why its not running.
Reply By: WA Joe - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 21:01
Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 at 21:01
Did you sought the problem?????
Reply By: rob_sheeds - Friday, Apr 20, 2007 at 00:58
Friday, Apr 20, 2007 at 00:58
thanks for your answers, im reasonbly sure it wasnt an imported 12ht but a local 12v. there was one fuse i checked the other day that had been wired into the fuse box when they converted and it seemed to be alrite but i will recheck it and replace it. actually waiting for a auto sparrky mate to look at it as there are some other plugs on the engne not connected and the harness is a mess.
The goldfields is full of corrugations so it very likely that it has come loose and shut the solenoid off>>>instant shutdown.
Thanks for all your help all. will keep you posted as to the outcome.