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Shock Absorbers vesus Air Bags

Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:03

Ray

I'm between the devil and the deep and am seeking advice.
I would like to ask your opinions on whether to fit a pair of air bags to the rear end of my 80ser L/C or a pair of pump up shockies. I tow a 17'6" caravan.
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ThreadID: 51182 Replies: 7
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AnswerID: 269657   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:22

Member - Roachie (SA) replied:

Ray,
These 2 items serve 2 different purposes and it is not realistic (IMHO) to ask an "either/or" type question.

The air bags will serve to enable you to maintain a better chance of keeping the bum of the truck off the ground once you hook-up the caravan.

Shock absorbers (pump-up or otherwise) are designed to "control" the action of your springs......they are not designed as a "load-bearing" component of your suspension (AFAIK).....

Cheers

Roachie

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Reply 1 of 7
AnswerID: 269658   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:22

Mr Pointyhead replied:

Pump Up Shokies ... Noooooooo. The role of a "Shockie" is to dampen the movement of the springs, not to carry load.

In the first place visit a good 4x4 suspension specalist to ensure your current suspension is in good order. Depending on the age of the vehicle you may need to replace some or all of your existing suspension components.

You can then look at what rear spring rating you want to run in the rear of the vehicle for the load you are carrying. You may decide to go for a heavier rate rear spring that will enable you to safely tow with nothing else. Otherwise you can go for a softer spring, but add a air bag such as a polyair, that can be inflated to compensate for the extra weight for the van when you are towing.
Reply 2 of 7
AnswerID: 269660   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:24

Wayne (NSW) replied:

Ray,

Shocks were never designed to take the weight of the vehicle. They are designed to keep the wheels on the ground.

Springs with the aid of air bags will support the weight of the vehicle.

Go with the air bags.

Wayne
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Reply 3 of 7
AnswerID: 269661   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:33

Member - Doug T (Qld) replied:

Ray
My troppy might drop 1" inch when I sit the 20ft van on the towbar. No air bags , eventually they will let you down by stone abrasion or holed. even Semi-trailers and Prime movers with air bags get let down now and then , although I loved the airbags on the drive axles of the semi because that meant not having to wind the trailer legs down hard, just down until they touched ground and a couple more turns then let the air out of the bags , made life a lot easier .So the best investment you could get is a Spring upgrade , Mine is ARB ,
And of course others have you the info about Dampers.


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Reply 4 of 7
FollowupID: 532546   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 07:48

Member - Oldplodder (QLD) posted:

Same here Doug,
Went to slightly heavier springs first, made a big difference.
Have air bags as well, but only run them on low pressure for fine tuning ride height, or for carrying a heavy load in th rear of the car.
The springs made more difference to towing, and I tow anything from a light box trailer, CT, caravan, to a 2 tonne boat.

Springs are cheaper than air bags anyway, and as Doug says, more reliable.

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John C - aka Oldplodder
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FollowupID: 532561   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 10:45

Hairy (NT) posted:

Yeh I fitted polyairs to mine. They only get pumped up for two reasons...a full esky in the back or Handy needs a lift to get parts for the rattler...LOL

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AnswerID: 269672   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 08:22

Member - MrBitchi (QLD) replied:

Used to run a pair of Munroe pump ups on the back of my panel van (god that was a while ago!) Worked great. Just like having a set of polyairs but polyairs weren't around in those days.
For serious use on a 4B I'd go a good set of shockies with polyairs. This will keep the load where it should be, on the spring seats, not the shockie towers.

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Reply 5 of 7
AnswerID: 269685   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 10:00

splits replied:

One thing that is often overlooked when fitting stiffer or pump up shocks is the strength of the mounting points. I will always remember a customer at work many years ago who bought a new Toyota station wagon then fitted stiffer shocks all round. He returned six months later with the top mounts at the rear ripped right out of the floor and expected the damage to be repaired under warranty. The mounts were not designed for the increased pressure applied by his aftermarket shocks so the floor surrounding them flexed excessively and eventually work hardened and cracked. There is no way in the world the standard shocks would have done that.

When thinking about different springs, many people don't realise they are measured in both "load" and "rate". Load concerns the height at which they will support a given weight. Rate is the amount a given weight will compress them one inch. For example 200 pounds may compress a spring one inch, 400 pounds will compress it two inches, 600 pounds three inches and so on.

A coil spring with many turns of thin wire can hold your car at the right height so you could say the "load" is correct but it could bottom out when you sit on the tailgate so the "rate" is too low. A spring with only a few turns of very heavy wire could also hold the car at the right height but may hardly deflect at all when you fill the car with bags of cement so the rate is too high.

All of this can be calculated mathmatically by spring makers when designing new springs providing they know the unsprung weight of each end of the car and what type of ride the owner wants.

This is just something to keep in mind when discussing replacement non original springs for your car.

Brian
Reply 6 of 7
FollowupID: 532572   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 11:41

Member - Oldplodder (QLD) posted:

Good description.
Reason I went for variable rate coil springs in the rear.

Standard load carrying capacity when car is empty, and same ride as standard springs.
As the car gets loaded up, spring goes stiffer (up to 30% stiffer than standard) and the rear end doesn't sag as much.

Variable rate spring achieved by different spacing of the coils over the length of the spring.

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John C - aka Oldplodder
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AnswerID: 269778   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 20:15

Member - Mike DID replied:

I fitted Monroe Pump-up shock absorbers to my Nissan Patrol in 1972, but they always leaked out all air within a week.

Based on the replies here, it seems that these aren't available any more and people have no idea how they work.
Mike R
Reply 7 of 7
FollowupID: 532667   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 20:40

Member - Roachie (SA) posted:

Mike, Are you saying that you used them to "raise" your Patrol in the same way others may use Polyairs?

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FollowupID: 532689   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 21:41

Member - Mike DID posted:

Yes
Mike R
FollowUp 2 of 3
FollowupID: 532699   Submitted: Friday, Nov 02, 2007 at 22:09

TD100 posted:

Hey Roachie,my first car was a 58 holden,i had wide wheels on the rear that scrubbed the guard lip,so being a smarty pants i thought i would fit a set of PU shocks in the rear-worked a treat for about 3 months till they punched themselves thru the floor!hahahaha.cheers Paul
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