KSV. posted:

Heh, you been fed that “this is normal” and accept it without employing any brain. Firstly it is abnormal and secondly I do not f*#$%& care what they do each to other, but what really p*%$#$ me off is how media actively stuff up brains of our kids that this is normal!
Actually topic was humorous of course – even they cannot breed somehow they manage multiply and Tazi soon going to join this homosexual bedlam.
Should I start my own party in protect of heterosexuality?

Mr Fawlty posted:

I agree with you again Harding.... I can actually understand how 2 males can form a relationship given the stresses of a "straight" relationship. Not that I'm trying to hit on you Harding....
Yes I think even staunch enemies of the nonbiblical relationship scene eg Freddy Nile would agree that they should have at least equal rights at law....
The only real problem I see is when couples of this pursuasion decide they want children and adopt, or in the case of a lesbian couple use the good old turkey baster and a carefully & genetically selected volunteer...Then you worry about the children having an "unbiased" upbringing. That is where I think the concept of "Gay" marriage is aiming, to remove any social scruples and null our senses into not worrying aboutchildren bought up in a "gay" marriage.

QLD Kev & Darkie posted:

I went to a wedding on the weekend and the kids were talking about having 2 mums and 1 dad and vice versa. Ours were the one of the only ones with just 1 of each LOL
There will be some mixed up kids out there and who knows what it will do to their development.

Kev

Mike Harding posted:

>given the stresses of a "straight" relationship

Ain't that the truth! :)

>Not that I'm trying to hit on you Harding

You're being coy Fawlty - are you tall, dark and handsome?

>The only real problem I see is when couples of this pursuasion
>decide they want children

Aside from the fact that I believe marriage is about "a man and a woman" this is a major concern for me too. My friends decided they wanted "a baby" and managed to acquire one via a surrogate in another country - that child is being raised in Oz by his "two Dads" and I am far from convinced this is a "good thing" - in fact I'm of the opinion the child was perceived as a fashion accessory and we'll just have to wait to see how it all turns out - I am not optimistic.

Mike Harding

Member - John (Vic) posted:

So whats the difference between children being brought up by one parent, IE a sole father or a sole mother and a pair of fathers or mothers??

I happen to also know a lesbian couple who have two brilliant children who excel at school and are very well adjusted in all aspects that I as a full time single Dad can see.
These kids mix very well with other children and adults alike and exhibit no inhabitation's or traits that could be attributed to being brought up by a gay couple.

Footloose posted:

John, those children would be the exception, rather than the norm.

Gone Bush (WA) posted:

Basil, how is Sybil, by the way?

Member - John (Vic) posted:

Yeah well maybe Jim?
The point is that its becoming the norm and the world seems to adjust quite well.

I remember not so many years ago the topic was that single mothers or fathers could not bring up well adjusted kids without a respective opposite sex partner and yet today its quite a normal situation and quite often the kids can even be better off.

I don't disagree that it does not always happen but then again many a rotten kid has occurred as the result of being brought up in a supposed normal Mum and Dad household.

Footloose posted:

John, agree to some extent. Sadly, my opinion is backed with 35 years of working with kids. The damage is often seen much later.
Anything which makes a child stand out in the mids of their peers can be a trigger for disaster.
Yes, these days we have all sorts of family structures.
In an ideal world it shouldn't matter if you have 2 dads and one mum, or two mums and no dad etc.
Unfortunately, we are far from that point just yet.

Member - Kiwi Kia posted:

Any school teachers about ? I was rather surprised to learn the high % of single parent or second partnership parenting there is these days. Of course I know it is rather common but it's almost the norm ! For those idiots who claim they know whats normal I suggest you open your eyes and get out into the real world.

KSV. posted:

Wide spreading does not necessarily means normal. Exactly in the same way as legal does not necessarily always means moral.

Member - John (Vic) posted:

Kiwi since my kids have been going to school and in 2008 I will have one in year 12 and one in year 7.
They have repeatedly said that more than half the kids in their classes are living with one or the other parent or in step parent/split house holds. Teachers I have spoken to confirm these sort of stats.
This relates to the national stats on divorce in this country IE being at the 50% rate.

I think that the kids of today are generally more "World Wise" and independent then their parents were at the same age.
They accept the split parents/living arrangements more readily and I think you will also find are generally more tolerant of same sex relationships than again their parents would have been.

This is the world we live in and it requires tolerance and understanding and more so acceptance because it ain't gunna change for any of us.

As long as the kids feel loved and safe then I think you find they will make there own way forward quite well.

Member - John (Vic) posted:

Sorry meant to ask KSV, Whats "Normal"? and please define "Moral" in todays world.

Member - Kiwi Kia posted:

Absolutely right John about the 'normal' family having only one parent. Also, many people used to be known as 'maiden aunt' or 'bachelor'.

KSV. posted:

John, this is very slipy subject.

Obviously both can be quite broadly defined. Furthermore if something normal (or morally OK) to one person not necessarily OK for someone else.

General acceptance in our society “It is OK as long as it does not harm or hurt others or their properties”. Thus for argument says perverts can be “dangerous” and “safe” for society. Example of first group would be pedophiles and in second homosexualists. Strange enough if some exhibitionist try to exhibit him(her)self in public place its regarded as “dangerous” because it can harm psychology of young kids (Oh my god! Take heads from sand and have a look what our kids getting from Internet!!!). At the same time homosexual parade in Sydney is ”norm”!

I know that they exist and I do not care what they doing – it has to do absolutely nothing to me. Furthermore, I use to work with one very nice fellow and there was a rumor that he if poof. Even if it did fully confirmed, I would not change my attitude to him – probably the easiest going on fellow whom I know.

What however I have problem with is this media hysteria about their “rights”. And about “education” in our school that this is “norm”. Yes it deeply hurts my believing in family values and I do not like to have the same “rights” as some perverts. And yes I strongly believe that adoption by same-sex pair must be strictly prohibited (come on! what two gays can teach a boy?). Ask yourself very simple question – would you like your boy to participate in student-exchange program into two-gays bedlam? Or broadly asked would you like your (yes, your own!) son become a poof? Is it makes your happier or it is does not matter to you at all? IMHO this is no more than mental sickness and has to be treated in psychiatric clinic altogether with pedophilia, necrophilia and others “philias” instead giving them “rights” to create a “family”.

Have you ever thought other way around – perhaps we have so many single mums and dads because we so tolerant to “alternative sexual behavior”? And more we will be tolerant means only less chances that our (grand)kids will have proper families?

This is very slipy subject indeed.

Cheers
Serg

KSV. posted:

PS. Why people with Down Syndrome or epilepsy should not have rights to get pilot license? They are normal people apart of small disorder aren’t they?

Member - John (Vic) posted:

Thats the point Serg, whats normal or morally correct for some is not for others.

The "proper family" takes many shapes these days, I'm a point in question I have my two youngest children living with me as a single father we have a very close and loving relationship, my kids feel safe and loved and my daughter in particular made the decision herself when she was ten that she wanted to live with Dad rather than Mum as she was happier with me than the household her mother had created.
My kids are doing very well at school and have lots of friends, my eldest is now working during the school holidays and seems to be continuing his good work ethic that he maintained at school.
So far I have had no issues with booze, drugs or trouble with police so I think that so far so good and hope like most parents they will grow to be decent and contributing members of society.
If they turned out to be gay (not likely given the way he is with the girls) I may not be entirely happy about it but I would accept it and love them just the same.

Whilst I understand your thoughts and many are like you, I think they are "old world" and society is as society is if a gay couple or a single parent wish to live their life that way and are happy who are we to tell them they are wrong, the same analogy could be applied to religion, who's to say one religion is better, worse or even wrong than another??

What our society needs is the moral tolerance to accept that we are all different and so long as we all live in a decent and respectful manner towards others then hopefully we will all live a better life.

As you say a slippery subject :-)

Cheers

KSV. posted:

John,

I have said nothing negative about single-parent families – almost always it is not a choice, but just happens. Sorry if I hurt you, but I still rate such families as “abnormal” and kids in this families as unfortunate. Understandable that in some circumstances it is better to separate and it is not up to me to advise you what to do, but I still strongly believe that kids need dad as well as mum. And I also believe that any separation is “half-death” and indeed leaving scars on kid’s souls. Sadly, but we live in consumer society – majority like to get instead of give.

Good luck with you very difficult single-dad quest

Regards
Serg

Member - Kiwi Kia posted:

KSV - YOUR OWN WORDS - ..."IMHO this is no more than mental sickness and has to be treated in psychiatric clinic altogether with pedophilia, necrophilia and others “philias” ...

Ok how about Homophobia, that's you ! Now be a good boy and trot off to your nearest clinic for some treatment.

KSV. posted:

Kiwi,

What do you call homophobia? Shake hands with mates? Have a beer? Have a hug? Go together for fishing? Sleeping in one tent? Eating from one pan? Drinking from one bottle? Sharing a smoke? What else? Dealing with someone know that he is poof? Shake his hands? Eating with him at the same table? All this been done and I have no problem doing it again.

Or probably you define homophobia as rejecting of homosexualism as normal behavior? Well, then I should upset you – thank goodness majority of people believe that homosexualism is abnormal. Thus it is either this way or other way. So if you suggest me to go to counselor and try him to make me believe that homosexualism is normal sexual behavior, then I rather keep my comments to myself who are you.

PS. Sorry, mate, could not hold it. They also saying something about Kiwis and their sheep. With such a broad definition of normal sexual behavior is no wonder that I look sick to you. LOL

Sorry, again – could not hold it.

Cheers
Serg

Member - John (Vic) posted:

Serg I also did not read any negative comments into your post about being a single parent so no need to apologize.
My kids and I are as happy as you could imagine with our lot in life.
My family is great :-)

My point is that single parents can and do bring up well adjusted children with no issues.

Cheers

Mike Harding posted:

An interesting news item in the context of this discussion:

News item

Mike Harding

Mr Fawlty posted:

Gone Bush (WA) posted:
Basil, how is Sybil, by the way?
Possibly a tad peeved knowing that I want to shack up with Harding...