Beware BF Goodrich All Terrain Tyres

Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:13


I thought I'd alert you to a tyre problem I have had with BF Goodrich tyres, which it seems is quite common, and their reaction.

I have a set of the BFG All Terrains on my 80 series. About 6 months ago I had one tyre develope a nasty bulge in the sidewall, and I found steel wires sticking out of the sidewall. I took it to the closest BF Goodrich dealer, who advised me that, despite the fact that the tyre had over 50% wear left I would get no refund, partial or otherwise, from BFG if the tyre was over 12 months old.

He told me he had seen a number of problems like this, but BFG stuck by the 12 months, any older and forget it. At the time I was irritated but let it slide.

Last week during a trip to the Wonnangatta area I had another tyre do exactly the same thing. Steel wires poking out of the inner sidewall, large bulge, this time in the tread rather than the sidewall, more than 12 months old, 50% wear left. I contacted BFG through their website and almost a week later they haven't even had the courtesy to reply.

So I spent quite some time today talking to both tyre dealers and 4wd shops that sold tyres, and had the same story from everyone.

This is a common problem. The tyres get what they call "tread separation" basically meaning that they start to delaminate, and that this results in steel wires moving around in the tyre and sticking out of the tyre. One dealer told me he had had 3 come back this week, all with the same problem. This was from a dealer who sold BFG but told me he would never recommend the BFG All Terrains for a 4wd for this reason. And he also told me that they were the worst at customer service that he had ever seen, except for Michelin. Michelin own BFG.

I said I had had no reply to my contact with them and he said this didn't surprise him at all.

And they all told me that BFG were well aware of it and wouldn't do a thing about it. Just what I experienced.

So I thought I'd put it up here and let everyone know. If you're thinking of getting BFG All Terrains make some serious enquiries before you do. I'm not having a bar of them again, especially as they have demonstrated to me that they couldn't give a damn about the quality of their tyres.

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AnswerID: 280605   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:23

Member -Signman replied:

Ah- another one!!
I suppose you had the raised white lettering (on the sidewall) facing to the outside !!!

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FollowupID: 544847   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:31

pprass posted:

And your point?
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FollowupID: 544848   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:31

Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. posted:

What do you mean "another one"? Pls explain .
Willie .
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FollowupID: 544856   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:54

peter11 posted:

Yes I had the lettering facing to the outside. Well to be more accurate the tyre fitter had it facing to the outside. Of course it went on that way when fitted.

Is this not the correct way to fit it? I think every one I've seen has been lettering to the outside, although you may not notice if they were fitted the other way round.

None of the tyre people I spoke to mentioned the way round they were.

Is lettering out wrong? I'd have thought it was pretty much intended to be that way.
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FollowupID: 544865   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 15:12

Member -Signman posted:

G'day Willie
Just a casual survey.
It appears that all the reports of inferior tyres, the users have had the white lettering facing to the outside of the tyre. There is never any admittance of tyre abuse, incorrect pressures, speed, loading or any other factor that may lead to a failure- so it must be the positioning of the white raised lettering.
I did have mine this way when initially fitted, but since had them reversed and have not had a problem- touch wood !!
Even the tyre failures I've witnessed when out & about- the lettering was on the outside. There doesn't seem to be a common denominator in the brand of tyre- however it seems that it only affects the 'big brands' Coopers, BFGs, Wranglers, Mickey Ts etc.
There is no scientific evidence (yet) to support my theory- just an assumption from information & observation.
Cheers mate

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FollowupID: 544876   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 16:27

whyallacookie posted:

Geez I hope that is tounge in cheek.....
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FollowupID: 544881   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 16:38

Member -Signman posted:

G'day whyallacookie...
What do you reckon ?? :-)
Do you have a better theory??

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FollowupID: 544884   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 16:46

whyallacookie posted:


It is because it was fitted to a cruiser
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FollowupID: 544886   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 16:48

Gramps (NSW) posted:

White lettering on the outside ... LOL ... you crack me up Signman hahahahahaha

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FollowupID: 544891   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 17:23

Member - Ian H (NSW) posted:

It is hard to understand when we are on our 3rd set of BFG AT's and have only ever had 1 flat and that was a sidewall stake from a cut sapling (der). We have the lettering out as well but I don't think that has anything to do with the problem. Will be interesting to see if anything conclusive comes of all this. I will contact the local BFG dealer and ask if he has had any reports of it. Will report back to forum.
Cheers all
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FollowupID: 544892   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 17:28

Member - Oldplodder (QLD) posted:

Most probably why I don't have too many tyre problems, hate the white lettering on the outside, so generally ask for it to be on the inside.
Reckon it proves your point.

I also always do the wheel nuts up left handed.
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FollowupID: 544946   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 20:38

Bware (Tweed Valley) posted:

Oldplodder, I do the wheel nuts up left handed; the trouble is that a left handed wheel brace is so damned expensive!
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FollowupID: 545058   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 12:37

robak (QLD) posted:

I would guess that since 95% of tyres are placed with the lettering on the outside, then it would be fair to say that 95% of the failures also have the lettering on the outside.
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FollowupID: 545061   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 12:55

Member -Signman posted:

Hi robak
I like your maths there (I think)..But yes your calculations seem quite sound to me.
More research needed here !!
Maybe I could get a government grant to drive around Oz, and compile a totally useless summary!!

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FollowupID: 545062   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 13:00

Member - bushfix posted:

aaaah signman, i detect some python in you last followup!

love it !

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FollowupID: 545063   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 13:02

Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. posted:

He is a keen fisherman !
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FollowupID: 545163   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 20:11

ian.m posted:

yep totally understand the inside white letter theory from signman..he he he:-)
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AnswerID: 280606   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:30

Off-track replied:

First I've heard of it. Google didnt even cough anything up.
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AnswerID: 280607   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:30

Member - Willie , Epping .Syd. replied:

Peter ,
Would you like me to copy this and post it on the Bushtracker Caravan Forum ?
Willie .
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FollowupID: 544858   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:55

peter11 posted:

You're welcome if you wish Willie.
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AnswerID: 280608   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:34

Member - Mike DID replied:

If the supplier won't do the right thing, then you'll need to go to the Dept of Fair trading and put in a complaint about the product as being "not of merchantable quality" or "not fit for purpose".
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FollowupID: 545033   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 08:36

AdlelaideGeorge posted:

This is an extract from the ACCC website:

Refunds will be available in some
It is important to distinguish between statutory
conditions and statutory warranties because
they will determine if a consumer is entitled to
a refund. Consumers should also be aware that
they may only be entitled to a partial refund
if the fault develops after the consumer has
enjoyed some use of the item.
Statutory conditions are the essential terms of a
Statutory warranties on the other hand are
secondary considerations that are important,
but do not ‘make or break’ the deal.
When there is a breach of a statutory condition
consumers can cancel the contract and obtain
a refund (s. 75A). Alternatively, other practical
remedies such as replacement or repair could
be agreed between the parties.
If disputes are heard by a court, the court has
the power to award compensation for any
additional losses, for example if a defect in an
appliance causes damage to a consumer’s home.


Do not be put off by a dealer saying that BFG 'won't do anything! If they sell/import in Australia they may have no choice but to do something i.e refund your money.

I look at this way: is it fit for the purpose if a tyre that you've paid (probably) a couple of hundred dollars for and is specifically sold as an off road tyre starts delaminating after a short use and is ptetially lethal!!!!!!? that's outrageous! Isn't a 'condition' of buying any tyre that it will provide safety??? They should be falling over themselves to refund or (if you choose) to replace at NO CHARGE. Just my view - you'll have to decide what you think but the more we all put up with usesless goods and 'wear it' the more these multinationals we use us up.

Go to the site shown and have a read up on your statutory rights-even Bridgestone has to comply with Australian law...

Happy days

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FollowupID: 545037   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 08:47

Member - Mike DID posted:

Remember that it's the retailer who took your money who is obligated under the law to comply with the Trade Practices Act.

If the retailer can't get a refund from the importer, that's his problem, not yours.
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FollowupID: 545045   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 09:36

AdlelaideGeorge posted:

mmmm not quite the law-this is from the ACCC site:

Advice for
and importers
A consumer may also claim compensation
direct from the manufacturer or importer.
This can apply if the consumer bought direct
from the manufacturer or importer or if the
consumer cannot get any help from the seller.
The manufacturer is liable to compensate
consumers for goods that are:
• not of merchantable quality, not fi t for the
stated purpose, do not match the sample or
description, or do not comply with voluntary
• of a type normally acquired for personal,
domestic or household use.
The consumer can be the original buyer or a
subsequent owner (such as someone who
has been given the product or bought it
second-hand), provided the goods are not
acquired for the purpose of resupply.
Consumers may recover loss or damage
including, where appropriate, consequential
loss (ss. 74B to 74E).
The manufacturer or importer would not be liable
to remedy a breach of a statutory warranty if the
problem was caused by the seller.
For example, if the fault was caused by
inappropriate use following the seller giving the
consumer incorrect advice, the manufacturer or
importer would not be liable.

If the original seller of the tyres is (say) now out of business for example, or for any other reason won't fullfil their obligations to the consumer, the consumer can go the manufacturer/importer. It seems fairer to take the complaint direct to the manufacturer/importer to me - 1.they've got more money and 2. they made the rotten tyres!

Happy days
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AnswerID: 280612   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:56

Robnicko replied:

How old were the tyres (not kms, but years)
The reason I ask is that the rubber can harden up after a few years and the tyre loses it's flexibility which can result in a harsh ride and vibration. Could also be a cause in the seperation.

Must admit I have never had this happen to me but I have had an old set, years ago, that went hard and never seemed to wear out but were no good on wet bitumen.

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FollowupID: 544861   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 15:06

peter11 posted:

Sorry but don't know how old they were as they were on it when I got it, I've had it for 12 months or so. However they had a slightly different (very slight) sidewall to the current ones, though the same tread pattern.

However the dealer I saw today who sold BFGs and told me he'd never recommend them said that the ones with the latest sidewall pattern are just the same.

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FollowupID: 544863   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 15:08

Robnicko posted:

Do they say 'all terrain T/A' or 'Radial All Terrain T/A' on the sidewall.
If they say radial then they would be at least 8 years old.

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AnswerID: 280613   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 14:57

Pnut (cns) replied:

First it was coopers, now BFG!
Are these so-called 'ducks nuts' - "patrols & cruisers" of tyre world really worth the extra $100 per corner more than, say, a maxxis tyre? (do a search on maxxis, you may be surprised what users have to say...)
Amazing how a bit of creative marketing can sell a product.
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Reply 6 of 21
FollowupID: 544866   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 15:15

peter11 posted:

Yes interesting indeed. While I was talking to the tyre dealers several of them also told me they wouldn't sell Coopers either because they had problems.

2 dealers told me they had a specific problem resulting in splits in the bead, one dealer told me they were good at partial refunds for this problem and one said they were'n't that interested in doing much about it, but both independently told me that the Coopers AT had this problem.

I have had 2 of the dealers, and one 4wd shop, recommend the Silverstones 117s. Exact same tread pattern as the BFG ATs, around $60 - $65 cheaper and they say just as good. Several said that you just pay for the name with Coopers, Mickey Thompson and BFG, they're no better, in fact worse.

Interestingly as well, one 4wd shop who sell lots of 4wd tyres told me that the Coopers AT and the Mickey Thompson AT come out of the same factory, are the same tyre, just a different tread pattern. As he sold both I was interested to hear that.
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FollowupID: 545040   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 08:59

Kev & Darkie posted:

"Interestingly as well, one 4wd shop who sell lots of 4wd tyres told me that the Coopers AT and the Mickey Thompson AT come out of the same factory, are the same tyre, just a different tread pattern. As he sold both I was interested to hear that."

What a load of schite.

That would be like saying that the Plain old Chocolate Paddle Pop ice cream from Streets ice-cream is the same as their Chocolate Magnum on the basis that it comes out of the same factory (Which is on Magnum Place in Minto NSW BTW).

A different brand with a completely different tread pattern means that it is designed for a totally different result even if it does come out of the same factory.

Cheers Kev
I am a genius in disguise, it's a bloody good one would ever know!
Lifetime Member: My Profile  My Blog  Send Message
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FollowupID: 545379   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 19:50

Member - Andrew (QLD) posted:

They should also state "may contain traces of nuts"......:-)

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FollowupID: 545385   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 20:11

Kev & Darkie posted:


Who the Ice Cream's or the BFG's LOL

I am a genius in disguise, it's a bloody good one would ever know!
Lifetime Member: My Profile  My Blog  Send Message
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FollowupID: 545395   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 20:47

Member - Andrew (QLD) posted:

LOL, the tyres......... "may contain traces of Mickey Thompson"

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AnswerID: 280615   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 15:17

Member - Captain (WA) replied:

Interesting, I had a similar thing happen many years ago on a set of BFG 33x10.5xR15 TA's after many previous sets of BFG's without any dramas.

So I changed to Cooper ST's and have now had 2 sets with good results. But if you follow all the tyre comments on this forum Coopers attract more than their fair share of.

I think a lot depends on the individual driver and also lady luck. Tyres are manufactured items and their is bound to be a dud every 1,000(?) or so tyres made.

I believe a brand name tyre has less chance of a problem than a no-name tyre, but it is no guarantee of perfection.

At the end of the day, tyres are a consumable commodity that hopefully will give good service as your life may depend on it!


Its not what you drive, but how you drive it!
LC 200 + AOR Quantum
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AnswerID: 280621   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 16:06

Booman1n2 replied:

I had a set on my old HJ 47 PC. But they were the older style tread pattern. Those tyres completed 70,000Ks before one of them went flat and I had travelled over some fairly rough Outback / Murchison terrain with those tyres, also beach work and road work.With the white lettering on the outside.

Maybe its an issue with rubber type being used in the newer style tread pattern.

From what I understand the older style tread pattern is still available and cheaper as well, but you have to stipulate you want this style.
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FollowupID: 544885   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 16:46

peter11 posted:

Interesting as well. One of the dealers said he hadn't seen any problems with the last model, the older tread pattern, and he'd have the older ones over the current ones any day.
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AnswerID: 280628   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 17:59

Dave from P7OFFROAD Accredited Driver Training replied:

Hmmm, I only get 10 000 kms out of My Bridgestone MTs... that's how many kms I do before my sponsor replaces them with new ones and sells off the 'nearly new' muddies with great ease.

Sorry I can't help with the BFGs, I don't go for 'fashionable' tyres, I just want good ones ;-)
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FollowupID: 544941   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 20:25

Richard W (NSW) posted:


Now you've spilled the beans. ;)
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FollowupID: 545013   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 00:20

Off-track posted:

Yes but not everyone wants muddys
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FollowupID: 545064   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 13:02

Member - bushfix posted:

oooh Richard,

what do you know about the beans?!!!!
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AnswerID: 280629   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 17:59

kev.h replied:

Peter have a look at the sidewall under the A/T and it will have where they are made if USA they should be good but if it does not say or has Brasil they are the cheap arse version, they brought them in a couple of years back as a special and sold them off cheaper to compete with Coopers a high persentage failed as they were not suited to our conditions. Had a set but due to a mate in the know i had them all replaced with USA made version no problems
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Reply 10 of 21
FollowupID: 544920   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 19:16

peter11 posted:

Hi Kev, had a look. There are still 4 on the vehicle. 3 are made in USA, one is made in Japan.

The dud, which is no longer on the vehicle, is made in USA, I never thought to look at the first failed one 6 months ago, no idea about that one.
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AnswerID: 280634   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 18:25

MEMBER - Darian (SA) replied:

Yep - its a bugger - you would probably get somewhere with a claim in the long run IF you persisted, but it is often best to "move on" - healthier for you. There are so many variables in the mix that it is often hard to pin actual causes down etc....... we have been on USA made 245/70 BFG's for 8 years on the Jack - on the trailer too - not a flat yet. Couldn't be happier. The just acquired cruiser 100 has Coopers on board - the start of a new era for me.
Palm Valley campground, Northern Territory.
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AnswerID: 280642   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 19:21

Oznuggets replied:

That's a bugger. hope something comes out of it for you. I'd try contacting them again. I just got a new set of BFG AT's (235 85 16) on splits for my troopy. I had a great run out of the old ones, close to 100k and never had a puncture in them, only a couple of tube failures. I was told to never run them under 40psi and I always ask for the USA made tyres, a mate had nothing but trouble with Japanese BFG AT's but fine since he got the USA made.
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AnswerID: 280645   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 19:27

Member - John L (WA) replied:

my advice keep away from the so called "big name" brands there not worth it !!
The last 10 years or so on two different vehicles I've been running Maxxis Bravo A/Ts - over all conditions and each set has given me 100000 kms or better for around $200-230 each.
Dollars per km they'll do me
Heather L (WA)
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AnswerID: 280674   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 20:52

Andrew(WA) replied:

Were they BFG AT KO's?
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Reply 14 of 21
AnswerID: 280693   Submitted: Wednesday, Jan 09, 2008 at 21:59

Bob Y. - Qld replied:


Surprised by your problems, as we've BFG AT's on an 80 series for about 8 years, and probably 200K clicks over that that period.

Had the odd puncture, no blow-outs, and the only time the wire became exposed was when the tyre was as good as buggered anyway.

Would still be using them except for the cost, and limited k's done by the wagon now. Went onto hercules AT's, which are wearing well, and only 75% of cost of BFG's.

Apparently a lot of roo shooters up this way are giving the BFG MT's a good run, and getting up to 100K clicks out of them.

Sorry you've had such a pizzling with them.

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AnswerID: 280733   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 10:43

Truckster (Vic) replied:

Instead of Emailing them, why not call them and discuss it over the phone.

So, now we have
100 BFG ARE GOOD threads
1 BFG ARE BAD thread

100 MTRs ARE GOOD threads
1 MTR ARE BAD thread

100 COOPERS ARE GOOD threads
100 COOPERS ARE BAD threads



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FollowupID: 545073   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 14:15

deserter posted:

I just luv my Wrangler Silent Armours !!!!
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AnswerID: 280817   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 19:39

Ken replied:

Peter, sorry to hear of your troubles and I understand the frustration of getting nowhere BUT as you say
"Sorry but don't know how old they were as they were on it when I got it, I've had it for 12 months or so. However they had a slightly different (very slight) sidewall to the current ones, though the same tread pattern."

You may have looked after them but did the previous owner ?? Under inflation, banging kerbs or rocks could have set things up for what you have experienced. If you had them from new and could swear they had never been abused you might have a chance of convincing someone.
It doesn't justify them not talking to you but with an unknown history I think it is not reasonable to expect them to cover what seems to me to be pretty unknown set of circumstances.

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FollowupID: 545248   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 08:15

peter11 posted:

Hi Ken,

Despite not knowing their exact history I'm pretty sure of it. I got the car from my dad when he died. I don't know when he put them on, however he was one of the most meticulous people I know so I'm quite confident that they were looked after. If you had seen the condition of the car, perfect. He did off road with it certainly though.

It is a known problem. I wrote about this on another 4wd forum as well and someone said that this problem has been known about for ages. That it only occurs for some batches of their tyres, not others, and that BFG don't want to know about it.
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AnswerID: 280834   Submitted: Thursday, Jan 10, 2008 at 20:51

Stephen M (NSW) replied:

Had them on the hilux and no problems ever not even a flat/punture and ran them at 38psi all the time except off road/sand/rocks etc different pressures. I have just put new ones on the prado same type different size and hope I dont encounter the unfortunate problems you have had. I run them at 40psi all the time while on road. Bob jane told me to run them at 32psi but felt way to sloppy to me. Yes they ride firmer but when going through the bends where I live I never had feathered edges on the hilux havnt had long enough on the prado. Well see. All the best chasing them but as mentioned above very hard to say how they were treated prior to your purchasing of the vehicle. Regards Steve M
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AnswerID: 280926   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 09:13

Russ n Sue replied:

This is sounding a little ominous. I had 4 sets of BFG's in four years (I was clocking up 65,000+ Km per year over seriously cut-up tracks back then) and never lost a single tyre. Yep, wore them all out.

Then I semi-retired and bunged BFG's on my new Disco 3. I hadn't done 10,000Km before the first one picked up something sharp on the bitumenwhich went right through the supposed steel belt. By 12,500Km a further two had succumbed to stones through the tread.

I dumped them and are now running Toyos with no problems. The dealer said that the load rating of the tyres (BFG's) is inadequate and probably wouldn't stack up if tested thoroughly. The Toyos have both higher speed and load ratings.

I used to preach BFG's, but now I'm completely over them. They won't get any more of my money.


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Reply 19 of 21
AnswerID: 281059   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 19:45

pmskitz replied:

Let's get one thing clear. Most tyre companies have a 5 year construction warranty (Cooper's 4 years) from DATE OF MANUFACTURE, NOT just 12 months like you say - this clearly shows you haven't talked to anyone who knows anything to do with tyres, let alone with a Michelin or BFGoodrich dealer, and it clearly shows that you are full of bleep . I bet the other 3 that supposeably had the same problem in the same week were your little friends from another planet.

You are an idiot! Do you seriously think that people will believe that the world's number off road tyre will have this problem, but only with 1 dealer all in the same week? Come on... you can't be that dumb....

ONLY BFGoodrich and Michelin have a 6 YEAR CONSTRUCTION WARRANTY from DATE OF PURCHASE - NOT date of manufacture - the best and most comprehensive warranty of any tyre on the market. And as for customer service - it is second to none.

The condition for warranty is that you have to buy it from a genuine authorised BFGoodrich or Michelin dealer. If you don't, then you don't get any warranty at all, so when you take it back to the non-authorised dealer, they will say bad things about them so that you will blame BFGoodrich and not the dealer who has ripped you off. Michelin and BFGoodrich are the best bar none - so there are many copies and private stores importing them, and selling them, of which BFGoodrich and Michelin Australia do not warrant, as they did not sell them in the first place. eg. If you buy a new Toyota from Japan and import it to Australia yourself, Toyota Australia will not warrant it, and it is the same with tyres.

Warranty is also on a pro-rata basis: ie. 50% tread life left, then you will get 50% of the value usually towards another tyre of any brand, if it is a manufacturing fault.

The only way to get wire coming through the sidewall of a BFGoodrich is if you have run the pressures too low, i.e. the sidewalls are flexing too much which "super heats the rubber and causes the cords and steel belts to move. No manufacturer will give warranty to idiots running too low pressure in their tyres and destroying them. As for your comment about the BFGoodrich dealer telling you he wouldn't recommend fitting them to a 4WD, I'd like to meet them, and I bet they aren't a genuine AUTHORISED BFGOODRICH dealer, but would really like to be. Michelin is VERY picky when it comes to authorised dealers. And clearly they were right in not choosing you - this comment is explained down below.**

Also the BFGoodrich All Terrain is generally good for 80,000km plus, (changing them with approx 3 - 4mm of tread left - more than legal still) and what you are saying is that they had 50%, approx 6 - 7mm (13mm new) tread left in under 12 months, Minus the 3 - 4mm after 80,000km this means you had travelled approx 60,000km on them. That's still 20,000km more than just about everything else! (ad still while being severely under inflated. I reckon that's brilliant. So what's your problem? Stop winging! Or just go back to England.

If you genuinely have a problem - then get your AUTHORISED BFGoodrich dealer to organise the Michelin/BFG rep to inspect them, as this is what EVERY authorised BFGoodrich dealer would have done for you, as they ALL know that they come with a 6 year warranty - not the 12 that you say they told you. But as I suspect you didn't buy them from an authorised dealer, but a local 'budget' tyre place, you don't have a leg to stand on. Or maybe, as I also suspect, you didn't buy them at all, but are a just a winger or maybe a dealer of another brand and you are trying to mis-lead people into believing there is only 12 months warranty. Either way, your story has absolutely no creditability whatsoever.

**Previous above comment explained - Now let's be honest, you are a Cooper's dealer right? Who can't handle being outsold on quality, driveability, safety, comfort, long life and genuine toughness without a bull bleep , "please don't read the fine print", advertising campaign. If everyone read the fine print on the km warranty on Cooper's, no one would ever buy them for that reason, let alone because they don't have the strength or durability of BFGoodrich, and are simply crap in the wet, bordering on dangerous. And the fact that they have the shortest (4 years) warranty of any brand name tyre on the market that I know of. Even some cheap Chinese stuff comes with 5 year construction warranty - that doesn't say much for Cooper's ay?

Fact: 76% of BFGoodrich owners request the same brand they are currently driving. (Number 1 by a mile, 18% more than 2nd place Pirelli)*

Your main authorised Michelin and BFGoodrich dealers are Tyre Plus (Michelin partners), Jax Quick Fit, and Bob Jane stores. You can also find your nearest dealer from the BFGoodrich web site.

And 1 more thing. You said you contacted them through their web site. They only have a place to make an enquiry regarding their products, not complaints, so obviously you won't get a reply. Bottom line - there isn't a single thing in your story that has any truth to it.

*From Australian Tyre Dealer magazine Vol 16, issue 5, Oct/Nov 2007
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Reply 20 of 21
FollowupID: 545388   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 20:19

Kev & Darkie posted:

So I take it from all that you are either
1. A BFG Fan, or
2. A BFG Authorised Dealer, or
3. A BFG Rep.

Cheers Kev
I am a genius in disguise, it's a bloody good one would ever know!
Lifetime Member: My Profile  My Blog  Send Message
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FollowupID: 545389   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 20:21

pmskitz posted:

After reading a few more comments, it is clear no one has any idea about tyres. Silverstone have a similar pattern, not exactly the same. They do not have a 3 ply side wall like BFGoodrich - almost 50% thicker rubber for better protection against side impacts, and the BFGoodrich lasts twice as long as the Silverstone, or Maxxis, and just about every other tyre out there, and is a whole lot safer in the wet. With BFGoodrich, you are not just paying for a name, you are getting the best value for money 4WD tyre. Michelin/BFGoodrich spend more on R & D than anyone else. Between BFG and Michelin, world's first radial tyre, tubeless tyre, BFG invented synthetic rubber, and no one uses silica like Michelin. Michelin are in a class of their own there. Every Michelin/BFGoodrich is x-rayed and hand inspected before release. Usually if there is a problem, it is owner abuse - not the tyre.

And he says the side wall was different to the "new one". This suggests someone has sold him the old tyre - maybe a private import and told him it was new.

Fact: When a BFGoodrich or Michelin tyre is nearing 2 1/2 to 3 years old in their warehouse, they put a cut in the sidewall and dispose of them. All come with a 6 year construction warranty from date of manufacture, up to 3 years old.

You sir were dudded by the dealer, and now are blaming the tyre that was at least 8 years old.

Anyway - I am sick of reading comments from people who have no idea, and believe a moron who doesn't have a single fact correct in his story - it has more holes in it then Bonnie and Clyde's death car.
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FollowUp 2 of 12
FollowupID: 545390   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 20:22

pmskitz posted:

Yes I am a BFGoodrich dealer! Thanks Kev.

Cheers Pat
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FollowUp 3 of 12
FollowupID: 545391   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 20:32

Member - Andrew (QLD) posted:

Don't jump to poor conclusions just because someone has bagged a brand.....they didn't mention Coopers yet you assume this to be the case....poor form from someone who thinks they know something about tyres.

Are you implying that a BFG AT K/O is better than a Coopers ATR 9since you mentioned it), all things being equal, comparing them with wet weather handling? How do you come to that conclusion? What factual information do you have to back up that statement?

Please explain how every manufacturer discusses wet weather handling by the ability of the tread pattern to remove water from the tread can the BFG perform better in this respect compared to others??

Last time i looked Cooper's Manufacturers warranty (as opposed to milage warranty) covered throughout its tread life (>1.6mm), not a year.....where does it say 4 years?

What i understand from the Cooper warranty is that the following is not covered:

- Ozone or weather cracking on tyres over four (4) years from date of purchase

Checking out the BFG (US) site (cause there is no warranty info on the AU site AFAIK) states that the following is not covered:

- Ozone or weather checking


Please correct my statements with facts as i have obviously been mislead and haven't purchased the "best value for money 4WD tyre" (where's that proof?)

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FollowUp 4 of 12
FollowupID: 545392   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 20:36

pmskitz posted:

Some achievements for BFGoodrich which no one else can claim to be as good, especially off road (just the latest)

2002 BFGoodrich Tires achieves 17th consecutive Baja 1000 win, and with record breaking lap times dominating the series 300 JGTC in its debut season

2002 Mark Mazurowski driving a '94 Toyota Supra with Comp T/A® Drag Radials sets the World Radial tyre Record at 9.00 @ 160mph

2002 Troy Pirez & his '70 Nova with Comp T/A Drag Radials sets the NMCA/NSCA Super Series Record & the World record at 8.621 @ 159.27

2005 BFGoodrich achieves its 20th consecutive Baja 1000 win

2006 BFGoodrich enter the World Rally Car Championship and dominate every round in devastating form

2006 BFGoodrich achieves 18th consecutive Baja 500 win

2007 BFGoodrich achieves in 8th Paris to Dakar win since its debut in 1999

2007 BFGoodrich dominate every round of the World Rally Car championship 2nd consecutive year, leaving Pirelli wondering about their future in the sport.

All can be found at

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FollowUp 5 of 12
FollowupID: 545401   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 20:54

Member - Andrew (QLD) posted:

I'm sure none of those tyres were the same as you or i drive around off-road......any of them winners driving plane ATKO or MTs??????

Stop your pi.ssing contest.....the wind always wins.

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FollowUp 6 of 12
FollowupID: 545406   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 21:10

pmskitz posted:

Dispersing water through tread pattern is one thing, through compound and tread depth is another. The under lying construction, steel belts, underlays, angles, thickness etc etc. also play a huge part. Yes, BFGoodrich is better than Cooper's - Fact. Construction, compound, strength and durability.

1.6mm is legal, it is far from safe, and a 4WD tyre should be changed when it reaches approx 4mm, regardless of the brand.

No one warrants against UV rays. The compounds used in Cooper's tyres is quite hard, and the 4 year warranty is because the rubber from a Cooper's tyre tends to age quicker than most. BFGoodrich is relatively soft and flexible, thus when off road they are less likely to chip the tread blocks also.

You like your Cooper's, that's fine. I am as bias towards Michelin and BFGoodrich as you will get. But I know they are the best bar. And Michelin are in a class of their own.

There are many happy people with Cooper's tyres I know. So here are the facts regarding their km warranty for those who don't know.

1. You must purchase the tyres from an authorised Cooper's dealer. (understandably, and fair)

2. They must be purchased from a dealer in a major city, as the roads in the country vary too much. (ie rough dirt roads)

3. If you take your Cooper's tyres off road, you void the km warranty. (yes - this is true)

4. You must have a rotate and balance, and a wheel alignment every 10,000km by an authorised dealer, or you void the km warranty.

5. The warranty is pro-rata. So if you get 70,000km instead of 80,000km, following all above rules, then you will get that percentage of the cost off another set of Cooper's tyres. This is fair enough, but having to run them to the 1.6mm level to get a claim isn't putting your safety first.

As I said, most people void the km warranty somehow and it's not worth the paper it's written on. You buy an off road tyre to go off road thinking you have a km warranty, but you really don't.

Hope this has helped. Cheers, Pat
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FollowUp 7 of 12
FollowupID: 545411   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 21:26

pmskitz posted:

Fact: Every BFGoodrich tyre that is raced on off road is available to the general Public. Every street legal DOT approved drag tyre and circuit tyre is available to the public.

And yes, the All Terrain T/A, and Mud Terrain T/A's were used in various Rallies, the same tyres most common on people vehicles.

You hate bias saleman. That's ok if they won't look at the facts. I do! I hate ignorant people who don't want to see the facts, even when put in plain English.

No one can tell me another tyre is better in the real world, when you get down to the facts of how a tyre is constructed and how they work.

If you want to read more about the actual tyres used in racing off road, follow:
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FollowUp 8 of 12
FollowupID: 545423   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 22:08

Member - Phil G (SA) posted:

'm also a fan of BFG - had good experience with both the ATKO and the Muddies.

But my question is - why do they have that elevated ridge on the sidewall - its a magnet for the sharp sticks when you travel off-track. The photo below shows a single new tyre with 3 sidewall stakes (all now plugged) incurred on a single days travel on the Madigan Line in the North Simpson desert.
2012 VDJ200 Landcruiser
2003 TVan
2008 VW Tiguan TDi
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FollowUp 9 of 12
FollowupID: 545424   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 22:10

Member - Andrew (QLD) posted:

As to point 3......where does it say that you cannot take it offroad???

Good to see that you are a salesman changing the subject and not answering MY questions about BFGs.....i wasn't talking about the milage warranty (which is a debate for another day). Why can't you just answer the questions?

As far as i understand Coopers DOES warrant against Ozone and weather cracking (up to 4 years)(not that i'm at all concerned if they don't).....does BFG? simple question....

Where is the warranty information direct link (online) for BFGs (ATKOs inparticular) to compare apples to apples.......

I DO look at the facts, and i can tell you that you have not answered all questions and/or based several of your statements on fact eg. "BFGoodrich is better than Cooper's - Fact"......salesman talk!

Your condescending statements are just saletalk and at the end of the day, if you cannot base all your statements on credible facts, then it is disappointing.

I will more than likely buy BFGs again, and i will buy Coopers again, though it definitely not due to your biased reasons.

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FollowUp 10 of 12
FollowupID: 545539   Submitted: Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 15:02

pmskitz posted:

G'day Phil.
The All Terrain has shoulderLock technology incorporating the upper sidewall traction bars to give greater traction on and off road.
As for the sticks in the side wall, it's just unlucky and very rare that that has happened.

The sidewall strength and thickness in a BFG in 2nd to none. 3-Ply Polyester carcass construction campared to the competitions 2-ply. (pictures attached). The sidewall cut outs are from a BFG A/T and a Cooper ST. The BFG has a much thicker and stronger more durable sidewall, as well a a rim protector. Approx 5mm compared to 8mm. It takes a lot more to go through the sidewall of a BFG than just about anything else.

Hi Andrew.
As for the km warranty being void if you take them off road, just ask your local Cooper's dealer. That is why ONLY people in the city get the km warranty, not the people in the country. Country roads are often rough and dirt, which can put the alignment out easier, and wear the tyres out quicker. Tyres wear out quicker off road than on road. Almost every one in some way will void the km wty along the way.

I was not changing any subject, or avoiding it.

If you want information regarding the wty on BFG, just ask your authorised BFGoodrich dealer. UV rays don't effect rubber usually until after 4-5 years on most tyres, so no-one ever has to worry about that, so I am surprised Cooper's even mention it, but some tyres age alot quicker than others. You will see this by cracks in tread area first, them moving to the side walls.

I didn't get on here to sell you anything. I will probably never see or ever have the chance to sell you anything, so this was not for my benefit, but was intended to help with some important facts. If you don't want to listen, I don't care. Buy your Cooper's, Bridges, Goody's, or Dunny's or whatever, makes no difference to me.

Unfortunately most think they are black and round and are all the same, and it's especially unfortunate that even most people in the industry think the same because they don't bother to do any research so that they can genually give you the best advice. They will just sell the cheapest ro the easiest tyre to sell you. Cooper's....oh yeah, I heard they were good... I take them. Or, these are just $100 each, $200 cheaper than the BFG's, and theyr'e an all terrain. $100 sounds good... ok.

The only independent stores.....well.... there are none! - None!Tyre's and More is owned by Yokahama, All Goodyear, Dunlop and Beaurepairs are ownded by Goodyear/Dunlop so will try to sell you either Goodyear, Dunlop, or Sava. Bridgestone stores... obvious. Tyre Power - Toyo, Kelly, Mickey T or Cooper's - they usually only have one or the other. Jax Quick fit are independent but have to buy almost everything through head office and pay a large percentage of their profit to head office, and sell what they are told to, or what profit margin tells them to.

Bob Jane will try to sell you their Bob Jane nearly rounders, or Xenon (called that I think as you often need very good head lights at night to give you enough distance to stop - just kiding). Also Maxxis, as they import most sizes themselves, then also Yokahama and Pirelli as there is much more margin in them than either Michelin or BFGoodrich. It's just that they need those 2 brands for credability. It's hard to say you have the best when you don't have those 2.

Well... I have done extensive research on construction, performance, life, and as much technical information as I could find. If you saw the technical data and indepth detail of tyre construction, you too would realise tyres ain't tyres.

I have not promoted or advertised my business here, or tried to sell anyone anything. So stop with the salesman bleep . Or I'll go on and on about the ignorant uninformed public crap.

20 years ago the public were very uneducated about cars - now almost everyone has quite a good idea about what they should pay and what to buy, instead of being ripped off.

Just to make things clear. I don't just sell BFGoodrich. I am also an authorised dealer and stock Michelin, Bridgestone, Maxxis, Continental, Pirelli, Falken, Kumho, Hankook, Silverstone, Federal, Jetson, Accelera, Nexen, Nankang, Firenza, Kenda, Merit, GT Radial, plus a lot more I can't think of at the moment. How many stores do you know that are authorised sellers of that many brands. Also... I can get you Goodyear, Dunlop, Toyo, and Mickey Thompson's if you want at competitive prices.

I always recommend the best tyre for your budget, situation, vehicle, and the type of driving you will be doing. BFGoodrich is a relative small percentage of what I sell.

I am bias towards BFGoodrich All Terrains because I think they are so good - There is one better, with simply uncompromising grip in the wet, quiet, comfortable, tough off road, and generally good for 100,000km plus - Michelin LTX A/T, and in allot of sizes only $10 or so more than BFG or Copper's., And as they are 1 piece, it is virtually impossible for them to ever seperate.

On my Patrol I have BFGoodrich Long Trail T/A, my push bike has Michelin, and my motor bike has Pirelli. Horses for courses.

Each person and individual vehicle has a different requirement.

I'm not selling you anything - I just hope you do your own research, and buy what you want, not what the dealer tells you you want. I am bias, but it is because I am informed.

Anyway, this is my last post. If I missed answering your question it's because I missed reading it or forgot to. I have never replied to any article ever written but the original post is just so full of crap I had to. There is an underlying issue with his tyres that is not being told. If he bought them from an authorised dealer, and they are the old model, then he should contact BFG/Michelin by phone and say so, and that dealer could be in some serious trouble. If they weren't an authorised dealer they could be in even more trouble.

Good luck to all, have a great time off road, and make sure you have fun. Cheers, Pat
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FollowUp 11 of 12
FollowupID: 545547   Submitted: Saturday, Jan 12, 2008 at 15:42

pmskitz posted:

I can't work out how to upload a photo like phil, so I have a link to some pics. Use the link below (Tyre Comparison) or copy and paste the address below.
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FollowUp 12 of 12
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AnswerID: 281072   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 20:49

Himble replied:

Oh dear how sad....

I HATE biased salesman...

BUT I run BFGs and will continue to do so, but NOT based on certain above posts!!
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Reply 21 of 21
FollowupID: 545413   Submitted: Friday, Jan 11, 2008 at 21:33

pmskitz posted:

Any one who has BFG's generally will buy them again. Forget all the bias, facts are facts, and I was a huge fan 18 years before I ever got to sell them.

Cheers, Pat
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