Thursday, Jun 26, 2008 at 21:13
Mike.
Firstly may I say that your reply is more than "a little insulting."
Secondly, do NOT attempt credit me with your own thoughts. This site is about Camping and Caravanning around Australia" - thus a prolonged discussion such as this IS off topic!
I am not so presumptuous as to assume that my knowledge exceeds all that of the committees who have provided us the system of electrical regulation in this country.
Our system is so devised with the predominating emphasis on safety. You obviously do not agree, and like to believe in conspiracy theories & the like. In this country, your beliefs are
wrong! Why? Because a greater number of similarly and or greater skilled people - certainly with a greater variety of skills and experience than you or I - have laid down the regulatory system that we have, one that you do not agree with!
I can not speak for the UK system, not having studied it or having worked there, except to say that an electrician who I once worked with had a working holiday for some years in the UK & had no issue with obtaining a reciprocal license - I recall his reading up on the local regulations & distribution systems. I would have assumed that the reverse scenario would also be possible? Or, is it that our standards are higher than those in other countries, including the UK?
As for the 6 years of training. This was a 4 year apprenticeship followed by 2 years of practical experience as an A grade electrician. I am surprised that you did not already know this, having stated that you had already looked into the requirements of obtaining an electrical license. This training involved more than just LV works. HV obviously plus hazardous areas. For what it is worth, I also studied Industrial Electronics, Electrical Motor Control, Pneumatic Control systems plus Quoting / Estimating and Small Business skills - all at night school at TAFE.
My previous posts have been careful in language & terminology. AS3000/ 2007, as with previous / other Australian standards, does NOT require a licensing system for electrical workers. It only requires that those persons be competent. Licensing is done by the individual state & Territories, the theory being that a satisfactory completion of the required training will ensure a minimum standard in competency.
Did you know that in outback Queensland and Northern Territory, station property owners may undertake their own electrical work? The reason being due to a shortage of licensed tradesmen in the areas of concern.
You should realise that under the trade practices act in Victoria, and obviously in QLD, that the purchase of electrical equipment is open to all, as to do otherwise would be a restriction of trade. The problem with this is that the non competent person generally does not know what product to purchase, their choice often being determined by purchase price rather than suitability - TPS cable is a classic example. The same can be said for plumbing equipment.
If you already know the answer, why ask the question? Instead enlighten us all as to what is required for the likes of yourself to obtain an electrical license.
I have no spite against Electrical Engineers. No degree or apprenticeship provides common sense.
It is just a fact that one has to be wary when working in an
Electrical Engineers property - it is called surviving.
Once again - DO NOT express your thoughts as
mine!
I repeat my claim. How can anybody attempt to carry out - in this case electrical work - that is safe & compliant without a working knowledge of the required standards? It is for this very reason that I am against the
home electrician.
Are you aware that in AS3000/2007, as a direct request from the NSW coroner, that the reinforcing mesh of concrete slabs of floors and walls of bathrooms is required to be equipotential bonded? This is due to two deaths in NSW. Is this scare mongering? I think not!
Here below is why electrical works should be restricted to competent persons.
When I was a kid, our family had a boat at
Lake Eildon. Like most of the boats at that time, it was
home built, the owners being a bit above competent handymen. One Christmas, the family who had the boat next door came up without their father / husband & needed some help with the boats' batteries. You see, their father was electrocuted prior to Christmas whilst investigating a lighting circuit fault in their
home.
My own father removed a strip heater from the wall of his office. He thought it could be used in the bathroom back at
home. He ensured that the heater was turned off by engaging the pull cord on the heater. On disconnecting the wires, he managed to make live the metallic based wall paper and a co worker received an electric shock.
At a new installation in Aspendale, I was contracted to install a main switchboard, power and lights to a workshop. The workshop was to be used to construct the remainder of the house. The owner / builder was a German bloke who allegedly had qualifications to do his own work in Germany.
Some time later, I was again contracted to do works, this time to divert the existing workshop supply to the house. This required the then SEC as
well as an inspector. Needless to say the bloke had done most of his own wiring but I would not connect it to the supply.
Why?
Home made fluorescent lights on bits of wood - exposed uninsulated terminals, pendant double power point using spade lugs fixed to the pins of a double adapter .... His wife was relieved that I refused to connect this work to supply, privately she told me this but publicly she could not be seen to contradict her husband!
I worked at a chemical plant doing maintenance & installation. The maintenance engineer made up his own 3 phase extension cord with male plugs on both ends!
You could argue that I have selected the worst of the worst this would tendto be true.
I do see numerous instances of dangerous installations as
well technical breaches. These are not restricted to the
home electrician, some "qualified people" are nearly as bad. At least under the present regulatory system there is some come back on these "dodgy licensed electricians.
You will also attempt to argue your case as to the "figures" on deaths in Australia compared to those in other countries - in this case the quoted New Zealand - being higher.
Well, I, like yourself (I assume) am not qualified to say. I do know that any figures can be used to represent either side of the same argument. I suggest that the said "figures" are just too simplistic. Injuries, deaths and the way in which they occurred all need to be clarified. A large number of incidents in Australia are from contact with over head power lines and the like - which have little relevance to electrical installation works (source Energy Safe Victoria)
In closing, "Victoria, the Nanny State", would be better addressed to those of us who refuse to take responsibility for our own actions! Those who are always looking for somebody else to blame! As a professional in the electrical industry, If I were to provide wiring details to someone who proved to be a non-competent person and that person got things severely wrong, it would be me and not the non competent person who would have a case to argue! Oh the British justice system! But what alternative?
Cheers, Tony
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