Common rail diesel

Submitted: Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 11:51
ThreadID: 60982 Views:10628 Replies:7 FollowUps:31
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A mechanic mate was telling me that the newer generation common rail diesel engines, while very efficient, will be very expensive to get a full service due to all the epa requirements for the exhaust system...plenty of sensors etc.
Won't handle short running style of driving too well, eg farm work, and the exaust temp. is hotter than a perol engine, putting a vehicle with a catalyctic converter into a stubble paddock is a no-no due to high temps. but it seems a newer diesel ngine would be worse...a bit of a worry really!
Can someone either support or deny this?
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Reply By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:01

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:01
Gees I was looking forward to getting in the old Stubble Paddock,
looks like I will just stick to the Corrugated Stuff lol.


Daza
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Reply By: troopyman - Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:10

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:10
Long live the 1HZ .
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Reply By: Member - Mike DID - Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:23

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:23
The current Pajero Diesel has a DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) which eliminates the smoke you will se from a perfectly tuned diesel when accelerating.

The carbon particles in the filter are regularly burned off by overfuelling, causing a strong burning smell from under the car, if you stop while a burn is in progress.

Considering how cars have caught fire if grass buildup around the exhaust under the car catches fire, I wonder how many more fires will be started by super-hot DPFs ?
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Reply By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) The O - Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:44

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 12:44
I would get rid of your old "horse and Cart' mechanic and get a "New Generation" mechanic.

Don't know what he means that "it will be expensive to get a full service" comment.

Our price of servicing have been...

10,000K - $174.00
20,000K - $174.00
30,000K - $229.00
40,000K - $417.00
50,000K - $258.00

This is through a Toyota dealer and is on par with our petrol vehicles that get serviced through their respected dealers.

New Common Rail Diesels only need to be serviced every 10,000K conpared with 5,000K for the old school type.

Our fuel filter only gets changed every 160,000K at a cost of $34.00.

So if you did the work yourself a new Common Rail Diesel may be cheaper then the old type.

There are many pros and cons associated with both vehicles...some fact and some fiction!

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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 13:06

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 13:06
The cost of the services are fine, I think he was referring to replacing the exhaust..? Not sure why anyone would be too concerned about doing this until the vehicle had done over 300,000 kms and at this point any vehicle starts to get expensive to service as you replace the bits that fail. I have a V8 cruiser thats done over 300,000kms's and the exhaust is fine, have done starter motor, tyres, batteries etc but nothing major
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 13:37

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 13:37
Gday Richard,
What Common Rail Diesel has a 160k interval for the fuel filter?

Cheers
Phil
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Follow Up By: TerraFirma - Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 13:40

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 13:40
New V8 TD Cruiser perhaps..? My Hilux TD only gets the fuel filter done every 60,000km's I believe, not sure about the new cruiser.?
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Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 15:06

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 15:06
My 3.0Di is very cheap to keep, particularly as there is no valve clearance adjustment (Hydraulic) or timing belt changes required (it's got a chain). Unlike my 4.2 td Tojo. Then again it did require a serpentine belt tensioner at 100K, bummer. Direct Injection/CRD diesels may have higher service intervals but one item I would not extend on would be a fuel filter. I do both mine at 20K even though the Di shedule says 40K.

OT
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Follow Up By: Member - Bevan (QLD) - Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 17:02

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 17:02
i personal wouldn't wait 160,000km to do a fuel filter your just asking for trouble, i change mine every 20,000km because you just never know what could be getting sucked though your lines, hopefully only fuel.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) The O - Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 17:39

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 17:39
All D4D Toyota engines, they have a separate brochure that comes with the owners manual stating you do not have to change the fuel filter until 160,000k or until the fuel light comes on.

The chances of getting junk in the fuel system of common rails increase each time you change the filter.

Filters will work better if they do become sightly blocked as long as it does not upset the supply rates.

The filters for common rail engines have a lot smaller micron rating then conventional fuel filters.

Changing a fuel filter on a common rail engine could void the warranty if you introduce foreign bodys into the injection system.
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Follow Up By: Member - Tour Boy Springsure- Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 18:07

Friday, Aug 22, 2008 at 18:07
Hi all,
my council D4D hilux has had to have the filter cleaned out 4 times in the last 10 months due to a hesitation caused by a partial blockage in the filter. It has only ever been filled up at the same bowser at work and now has 90,000km on it. It is the moodiest diesel I've ever had. Fuel economy is generally not good and it doesn't matter if I drive it nicely or hard. The worst economy (66lt tank) was 380km and had took 61lt. The best was 620km and it had air on the way thru the lines as I filled it up (I know this because it hiccupped and stalled 20m down the road from refuelling).
It is a dual cab with a steel/ timber tray and would be lucky to have 50kg in the back at any one tme and usually only me in it.

It has had a hard life here in Central Queensland and has spent probably 90% of it's life on dirt. It had a bad knock in the front end somewhere and a bad stress fracture "squeek" in the front drivers side turret somewhere, wanders all over the place like a mad womans you know what and oh and not to mention heaps of electrical probs incl filling up the cab with smoke.

On the plus side it is sooo rooted that it rides better on dirt/ corrugations than the corolla does on blacktop.

Cheers
Dave
Cheers,
Dave
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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 at 18:47

Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 at 18:47
160,000ks before fuel filter sounds like a croc to me. I have a new D4D Prado (weeks old) that has a brochure showing a plastic fuel filter assy and another picture of a fuel filter but nowhere does it say 160,000Ks for a change. Why they put this brochure in with the manual I don't know as it looks nothing like the unit in the vehicle. The service manual is very clear ....every 20,000ks. I trust no-one else is misled by your assessment of intervals to change this filter??
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) The O - Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 at 19:42

Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 at 19:42
Before you start saying I have misled people perhaps you should find out from someone who may know and get your fact right.

Have a look in your schedule servicing book and tell me when it says to change the fuel filter at how many kilometers or months?

...I'm waiting!

Still waiting.....

When i did a training course on D4D CRD systems Denso said they would change it at about 160,000k, Toyota don't recommend changing the fuel filter at all due to the chance of introducing foreign materials into the system.

Check with a Toyota dealer and they will say the same thing.

Toyota says change it when the fuel filter light come on and not before.

This is why they call it a "maintenance free fuel filter element".

This is why the put this brochure in to stop people who don't know what they are doing from damaging their fuel injection system.

I know of some courier drivers who have clocked up excess of 250,000k and have not replaced it yet.

A filter will work better if dirty if it is not restrictive.

If I am wrong I apologise sincerely and if your wrong all you have to say is I didn't understand what I was talking about.





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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 at 23:42

Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 at 23:42
FACT 1. The service manual says that the fuel filter is changed at 20,000k intervals....I checked it before I made my post.
FACT 2. The fuel filter fitted to my D4D is NOT the same that appears in the brochure and is of the metal rather than plastic type. As I intimated earlier I cannot understand why the brochure was included with the manaul.
FACT 3. Your post contradicts what my manual says and therefore could mislead the unwary who do their own servicing. To this extent only I consider your post to be misleading.
FACT 4. I have actually lifted the bonnet to check what's installed and it certainly is not what's in the brochure I have and also to which you refer.
On my count there are two aspects of your commentary that do not apply to my circumstances. I'll change mine at 20,000k and I hope you get from yours what you are anticipating. Good luck and good night!
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 at 07:22

Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 at 07:22
Just wondering whether there is a misprint? 160k sounds OK for the V6 Petrol, although the petrol vehicles have had 80k changes in the past. And is there really a warning light for a blocked fuel filter????? And are they really suggesting you run a fuel filter until it blocks?

Richard, the point you raise about introducing dirt during a filter change is something that has concerned me before. My solution is to never disconnect the hose that goes from the filter to the pump. So the main filter on mine gets changed on the vehicle - easily done with a big towel and a container to catch most of the diesel. Mine also has a prefilter so the cartridge gets changed every 10,000k, while the large filter less often.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) The O - Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 at 09:01

Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 at 09:01
What manual are you talking about Leigh, is it a genuine Toyota manual.

If it is an aftermarket manual through it in the BIN.

What does it say in the service book that comes with you vehicle.

Even the petrol engine ones say every 80,000K.

Tell me what page it is on and I will have a look Monday...you might be right but why would they change it only on the Prado's and nothing else that runs the D4D.

All our vehicles that have the D4D say the same thing.






Take a photo and put it on your post to prove me wrong. PLEASE







This is different to what we got told in training from Denso.

Phil with CRD systems it is a whole new way of thinking how things are done.

Phil a dirty filter has better filtering properties then a clean filter as long as it is not restrictive in it's flow rate.

When we did the training Denso cold not stipulate more how important it is to keep the CRD system clean, even fibers from rags can cause expensive damage to the micro finished surfaces and tolarances.

I still think Leigh information is wrong an.

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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) The O - Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 at 09:04

Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 at 09:04
This is a post from the other CRD thread.

Member - John F (NSW) posted:
Have to agree, O. The CRD Hilux manual gives pretty simple guidance on pumping the fuel through if you let it run out.
BTW, did you put an additional filter on the Hilux? I've been considering the same, worried about warranty. Ours has 65K on it, and am puzzled by the fuel filter maintenance programme ie., none, except to check for water. Asked the Toyota spares bloke the other day at Gosford, he sold me a Daihatsu filter element, which he said is what they use. So that will go in at the next service. Why wait until the thing clogs up? Or is it just that fuel is generally so "clean" these days that it is really only rarely that filter elements would need to be changed?

Regards, John.
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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 at 11:20

Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 at 11:20
Hi. There may well be a simple explanation to this issue but I haven't found it yet...unfortunately! I have looked at the Toyota service manual that comes with the vehicle and it indicates "R" replacement of fuel filter at 20,000k intervals. The filter on the vehicle is a Denso Toyota Filter part No. 23390-30180. Perhaps if yours part number is visible on the can you could check against mine. See how you go and we can compare notes later. There is also a prospect that you and I are running different filter set-ups and whilst mine is the "traditional" alloy housing type with spin on can yours may be like the plastic arrangement shown in the brochure?? If that is so then I will want to understand why from Toyota. Hope to hear back soon. Cheers Leigh
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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 at 11:38

Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 at 11:38
Thought this may be of interest. It just shows how many different perspectives are out there and the traps that lie ahead for those wanting to opimise their vehicles' reliability.

http://www.pradopoint.com/viewtopic.php?t=3753

""CRD engine will not benefit from CAV filter, and will put additional load on fuel pump by pulling thru 2 filters and thus cause supply pump failure - premature injection pump failure in electronic engines is more often caused by wear in the piston advance housing, which oscillates many more times than foot on the pedal that it is trying to duplicate electronically - because it is steel piston on alloy housing it wears and introduces particles after the fuel filter - thats one view, but it is one reason that filters are blamed for an electronic engine problem - if however your problems are humidity related the addition of a water seperator filter and additional electric fuel pump may be worthwhile - am working on a smaller add-on seperator kit at the moment which maybe suitable - mainly because the filtering media removes the water, rather than using mechanical method."
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Follow Up By: Member - Davoe (Yalgoo) - Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 00:02

Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 00:02
Im calling B.S again
does your hilux not require the bearings be greased?
one of 3 thing is going on with our prices
1) your not getting the job one properly ............ And there not charging for what their not doing
2) Servicing costs are less than 1/2 of what they are in WA
3) The new hiluxes require virtually no maintenance
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Reply By: TerraFirma - Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 at 20:02

Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 at 20:02
160,000km's sounds impressive however I still believe it should be possible to change the filter without contaminating the fuel system IMO. The concept of not changing a fuel filter because of risking making the system worse does not go well with me for a few reasons. Even the best filter systems can be contaminated by a bad batch of fuel, especially our diesel. I believe my dealer kept referring to 60,000 kms but I can't be sure.? Diesel vehicles are famous for needing air filters cleaned regularly along with fuel and oil filters, the new partical filters must be a considerable breakthrough in technology if they can cope with 160,000kms and I would be very happy service cost wise if this is the case.
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Follow Up By: Member - John F (NSW) - Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:46

Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 10:46
This would appear to be the classic "can of worms".
Olcoolone is definitely correct re the Toyota Hilux D4D - I know nothing about Prado D4D differences, if any.
I think most of us are imposing our years of old school maintenance habits onto a modern machine, but the rules have changed...
Olcoolone makes sense when mentioning that the risks of contamination from filter element changes outweigh the risk of not changing - the worst that can happen is that the warning light comes on. The manual then says to check the filter for water. If the light goes out, no worries. If the light stays on, contact the dealer. This is where my question arises - will the light generally be staying on then because the fuel filter element needs changing, or would it be more likely to be other reasons? If the former, then I would suggest that an occasional new element, say at 60k intervals, would be prudent. I don't want the light coming on miles from nowhere. I would be extremely careful of any contamination.

Regards, John.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) The O - Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 18:12

Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 18:12
TerraFirma...
We are talking about the fuel filter, the particle filter is on the exhaust end and that has a what ever life span...maybe 400,000 plus kilometers


John F....
All the light will tell you there is a restriction in the fuel feed, if the light comes on out in the middle of nowhere it doesn't mean the vehicle is going to stop there and then or you have caused big damage.

There would be a large tolerance of when the light comes on and damage is caused.

The light is a simple warning device much like the pop up warning devices on heavy vehicle air cleaners.

You still could properly drive 2000 plus kilometers and not have any ill effects.

We carry spare filters just in case as a last resort.

I think it is what you said to many old school ideas, technology and fuel have come along way and got a lot better over the years.

The reason the manual tell you to take it to your nearest Toyota Dealer is................well lets just say some people don't know where to put oil in the engine or how to check tyre pressures let alone change a fuel filter has to be kept clean.

And with the light...how many people have you seen driving with dash warning lights on and an engine rattling so hard you could swear they had a dozen tin cans with gravel jumping around under their bonnet.

Regarding old school, heavy vehicles went through the same thing when the manufactures introduced 80,000k service schedules on some trucks.

Look at some European diesel engines in the cars and 4x4's 15,000 to 20,000 kilometer service intervals and filters at 40,000 kilometers.

John you might want to have a look at the "New Hilux Forum"

http://www.newhilux.net/index.php





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Reply By: TerraFirma - Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:16

Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:16
The light is supposed to come on if the filter is contaminated by water , I don't believe it comes on when the filter is simply too dirty to continue etc. On the drivers side sun visor there are instructions re the management of the filter should water ingress occasionally.

I believe my dealer recommends filter changing every 60,000kms. I would have thought this to be a happy medium given the pros and cons of changing the filter.

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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) The O - Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 18:13

Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 18:13
Light comes on due to a fuel supply restriction.
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Follow Up By: Member - John F (NSW) - Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 21:36

Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 21:36
Well, you are both right...
According to my 06 Hilux manual, p.89, the light has two modes; flashing, "water in the fuel filter has reached a specified level" and, "when the light comes on, it warns that there may be a problem with the fuel filter" - I think that means comes on and stays on, because it goes on to say "in this case have your vehicle checked and warning light reset by your Toyota dealer as soon as possible."
Note that in the warranty and service booklet ( Section 2 p.6) the term "fuel filter" is used with respect to the petrol engine, whereas "water sediment accumulator" is the term used for the diesel engine. 80k is specified for the fuel filter replacement in the petrol engine, but 10k inspection is all that is specified for diesel.

I spoke to the Service Manager at my local dealer today and he diplomatically said that they were happy to replace the element any time for a customer, and implied that the lack of a specified interval may be a kind of marketing angle to keep maintenance costs down.

This is of particular interest to me as I am keen to prove wrong those out there who talk about the supposed lack of longevity of the "stressed" 3.0 CRD compared to the older designs. We will see. Maybe the same kind who posted about having to crack injectors and lines to bleed a Ranger CRD that had run out of fuel. Oh dear... My other car is a WRX, owned from new, with 180k on it now. Still goes and feels like new...
Slightly off topic but of interest to you too, O, is the cold start rattle. Do you get that? Ours rattles at about 1400 rpm for a couple of minutes until warmed up a bit. The Service Manager said today that they are still working on an ECU and injector fix.

Regards, John.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) The O - Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 23:07

Monday, Aug 25, 2008 at 23:07
Good to see someone on the same wave length as me.

The comment from your service manager is a bit odd, at the best it may add $80 to $100 to a service every 2 years or 40,000 kilometers so I don't really see that as a reason and Toyota would not do something like that to save the customer such a small amount.

As you said the petrol engine fuel filter replacement is every 80,000 kilometers.

The biggest thing they (Denso) worry about is getting contamination into the fuel system and causing big expensive damage.

They would of done similar trainer as we did with Denso regarding D4D common rail systems and Denso could not enforce the issue about contamination enough.

If it was a cost issue I don't think Toyota or Denso would take the risk of not replacing fuel filter regularly if they were not 110% sure it would not cause damage.

Could just see it now ....Mr. Bean Counter at Toyota "What do we do! save the customer $50.00 a year by not changing the fuel filter or risk $6,000 to $10,000 damage to the CRD system"

This is a typical "Risk versus Cost strategy" that most business consider or should but don't.

With warranty work, if you take your car in for warranty and a part is replaced this is what happens.

1) Dealer gets authorisation form Toyota.
2) Dealer replaces the part and charges labor at a set warranty rate.
3) The warranty part gets sent back to Toyota.
4) Toyota sends the part back to the supplier.
5) Supplier checks part for warranty claim and possible cause of failure.
6) Supplier either accepts the claim from Toyota and pays costs.
7) If part is refused buy the supplier for a number of reasons the part gets returned back to Toyota.
8) Toyota notifies the dealer and the dealer is charged for the part and labor costs are revoked.
9) The dealer either accepts the warranty denial and either wears the cost themselves or charges the customer.

In some instances the supplier, Toyota or the Dealer may wear costs as a good will gesture.

Dealers can not charge diagnostic time to Toyota or the supplier as they are paid a set rate dependent on part.

However a dealer can call someone like me in to diagnose a problem and I can either tell then what is wrong or do the whole job and charge the dealer, the dealer then can put a handling % onto the total price and charge Toyota.

Yes I think there are a lot of people specially 4WDers that can't or don't grasp technology very well and this really shows up when people say "I don't think this 4x4 is very strong because they have done such and such, I remember when the Pajero went to a monocoque chassis and some people said it would fall apart and crack...how wrong they were and the Pajero is a very capable off and on road vehicle with very few faults.

Yes our Hilux does rattle and I believe it is to do with the ECU programming regarding the cold cycle and primary and secondary injection timing, it does not cause any damage and there is not much what you can do about it. I think it has a lot to due with meeting emission standards when cold.

Have a look at the Hilux forum as there is a fair bit about that rattle when cold.

Talking about noise we have a Subaru STI and doing U turns or backing out our driveway you think the diffs are going to fall out, they clunk and shudder and bind up something terrable.
People think 4x4ing is expensive we destroyed a tyre on the Subaru (12,000 kilometer old)....we drove it flat for about 4 kilometers...non available in Australia....two to three month wait at $470.00 for one tyre.....









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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 08:26

Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 08:26
Reading through this thread I have concluded that there is more speculation than fact in the conclusions drawn. May I suggest a $20 donation to the RFDS for every false or misleading statement that is proven. I think that might sharpen the focus toward fact and not bluster!
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) The O - Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 08:41

Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 08:41
Leigh you have lost me!...whats false or misleading?

Yes we do support the RFDS through the Broken Hill base.
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Follow Up By: Member - John F (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 20:08

Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 20:08
Hey Leigh, lost me too, mate. I have quoted page numbers from the manual - I can scan and include in the post, but really mate i couldn't give a rats if someone thinks it's BS.
I do value informed dialogue with someone intelligent and informed like Olcoolone.
I think you both are quoting from different sources for different vehicles.
Threads that turn into pi$$ing competitions have no interest to me, but I have learnt valuable info here.
My service costs pretty much mirror Olcoolone, although I use a private mechanic, but we check it by the book.
I appreciate your info, Leigh, on the downside to a CAV. I guess I would weigh that up against the value of extra water interception, and bear in mind O's comment re the extra restriction showing up with the warning light if that threshold was reached.
As I have said, i know nothing of Prados, but re the water issue, the Toyota service manager told me that if you do get water in the Hilux then the fuel tank will need to come out. Being plastic it has no drain plug. Here we go, someone will jump in now with plastic crap blah blah. Of course the great thing about the plastic tank is that as the vehicle ages it does not sabotage the fuel system with increasing amounts of corroding metal by products.

Regards (again), John.
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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 23:14

Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 at 23:14
Hi John. I think you have missed my point however I really couldn't be fagged working through the detail to enlighten you as to where the inconsistencies lie. Having said that however I do object to postings that appear to carry "authority" but are not based in fact. Forget the Hilux vrs Prado BS...it doesn't matter, ie it's immaterial.

I am concerned that whilst I am big and ugly enough to form my own views I have a real beef with views that are being expressed authoratively that are not based upon good researched fact. Advice based upon hearsay will not do anyone a favour when travelling out in remote areas and could even have dire consequences if followed. I, like a number of members on this forum, do get ourselves into some very remote areas of this country. That is why I also have a Troopy to do such trips, ie managing the risk you might say! Like most people I started off with a very low knowledge base and experience but I used a number of methods to inform myself including some 1st class advice received from very experienced members on this site.

Now you might say this guys off his head, but believe me when I express a concern for all those other readers who are where I was several years ago...hungry for knowledge and experience. I'll be blowed if I cannot express a concern about a posting here or there that is made without a sound basis in fact and is presented as if it were a fact. I don't mind BS, speculation, ill informed views and so on BUT I do object when it is presented with such authority that another member may take decisions based apon flawed information. This is unacceptable and I expect you would also agree with such a view?

There are a couple on this site that I believe need to lift their game particularly on issues that could impact on the material well being of members especially when their exposure to risk could be high. This is the essesence of my beef!! Do you follow me??



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Follow Up By: Member - John F (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 08:24

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 08:24
Hi Leigh,
Your concerns are very real re misinformation which could have consequences for those of lesser knowledge/experience when travelling in remote area (or anywhere for that matter).
I currently do audit work for an airline, among other things, and started work as an apprentice fitter 39 years ago; so thanks for your concern but I do have the ability to enlighten myself by carefully sifting through information from multiple sources and forming my own conclusions.
That is why I did appreciate your info on the possible problems of a CAV on the CRD engine.
What does, however, burn my ar$e, are the the blustering attacks on another member - Olcoolone - whom, I might add, I don't know from Adam, when all he does is present accurate information. These are called arguments ad hominem (to the person), and have no place in civilised discourse. They are used by those who try to deflect the focus off the issue or fact and onto the person.
That's why I had to quote the Hilux manual - there were those who just could not accept that the fuel filter element was not routinely changed. We then tried to figure why - most likely due to the risk of contamination outweighing the benefit of waiting for the light to come on. As O said, when the light comes on you still have plenty of time to drive to a mechanic to get the element replaced.
As we observed, the rules have changed on how we think about these engines. At least the KD1 which is in my 06 Hilux. I believe there is a KD2 - is that what is in your current Prado? As you said, the picture in the supplementary pamphlet does not look like your setup, so maybe it has changed. Still no reason to rubbish "O" as he is 100% correct re the Hilux.
The "little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing" adage was well demonstrated by the dopes with the Ranger CRD who opened up the system, introducing God knows what crap, when they ran out of fuel, instead of pressing the priming pump. To top it off they post on here bagging CRDs!!
So Leigh, in summary, still haven't seen one fact on here to contadict anything "O" has said. Plenty of people reading this, some with a lot of knowledge, others less. It is a valuable source, but you need to sort the wheat from the chaff/dross/crap.

Regards, John.
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Reply By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 08:41

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 08:41
Sorry John, I think you have again missed the point again and I am more surprised given your role as an Auditor? Look beyond the issue that created this discussion and look to the principle and the attendant risk that accompanies such behaviour. Please tell me you don't work on commercial airlines?? LOL!!

I was also not aware that Olcoolone has been subjct to rebukes previously so thanks for that and I have now retired from this post.
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Follow Up By: Member - John F (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 09:14

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 09:14
Mmm. Looks like another ad hominem attack to me, Leigh.
Yes, a large commercial airline.
I didn't mention anything about previous rebukes, if any, to "O", just referring to this thread.
It's a shame you are retiring from the thread without acknowledging that, given the facts that "O" and I presented, he is correct re the Hilux KD1. After all, we don't want to mislead anyone here.

The facts we can glean from this thread:

1. Hilux KD1 fuel filter (water sedimenter) element has no specified replacement interval, but may be replaced when required. Extreme care should be taken to not introduce contamination. It costs about $34.

2. There may be a different filter setup on current D4D Prados, but no manual and page number was quoted to support this assertion.

3. According to reported conversations with Toyota personnel they are happy to replace the filter element at the client's request.

4. One member reported adding an additional filter with no ill effects. Another supplied information that this may cause problems due to increased restriction in the supply line. but there was no direct evidence supplied to support this.

5. There were some unsubstantiated assertions as to the veracity of some postings.

Have I missed anything?

Regards, John.

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Follow Up By: Member - John F (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 09:35

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 09:35
Oh. Did miss the exchanges over servicing costs:

6. One member quoted his scheduled service costs. This attracted some doubt from others. Another member posted that that his costs were similar to those quoted.

Regards, John.
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Follow Up By: Member - Olcoolone (S.A) The O - Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 21:41

Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 at 21:41
Mmmmm.

I suggest you make your own mind up and if you did not research something yourself and only relied on what was said on this forum I think you will get in trouble.

John I enjoyed the replys from you, obviously your a very logical thinker, you call a spade a spade and do do you own research and can make your own mind up.

What Leigh quoted re the fuel pump was taken from the forum "Pradopoint.com" as someone made a passing remark on there about it, again no support to back it up.

This forum is starting to get aggressive again and I think it may be time to move on for a while.

I always try and provide the correct information and do my research but it looks like it is not warranted and I accept that...no problems.

Leigh still has not told me what manual said the filter should be replaced at 20,000 kilometer intervals.

Long live personal view point and free speech....but not here.




And one last thing..
Leigh Quote "I was also not aware that Olcoolone has been subjct to rebukes previously so thanks for that and I have now retired from this post. "
Who said that and where?





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Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 14:17

Thursday, Aug 28, 2008 at 14:17
Ok boys, one last time to demonstrate the point.

The quote from "O" is "All D4D Toyota engines, they have a separate brochure that comes with the owners manual stating you do not have to change the fuel filter until 160,000k or until the fuel light comes on."

I ask is this true or false? I claim it is not true but I understand the basis upon which O has made the comment. In essesence I claim it could be misleading and this is a fair comment in my view.

The Pradopoint extract was only an example of the expertise and viewpoints that are about. I certainly do not profess to know the answer and make no representations either way other than to demonstrate the point.

I believe I have mentioned on a number of occasions that the factory TOYOTA SERVICE MANUAL, ie the one commonly found in the glove box specifies 20,000k changes of the fuel filter for MY 2008 D4D Prado.




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Follow Up By: Member - John F (NSW) - Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 02:40

Friday, Aug 29, 2008 at 02:40
Thanks again for the info O and Leigh. Shame there still appears confusion re the filters in both the D4D Prado and Hilux - I can only speak for my 06 Hilux, which has the same info as O's ie. no change specified, inspect only (by draining) at 10k intervals.
I would be disappointed if you retired from here O as you obviously have expertise which is appreciated by many - look at the view stats on this thread.
It is a shame this discussion was not conducted over a few ales. The typed discussion loses a lot of the real communication and misunderstandings creep in which do not occur face to face. We could have easily cleared up the whole thing by reference to each other's glove box manuals.

Don't want to carry on ad nauseum, but I do like to get the facts clear.

Regards, John.
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