chinese generator copies

Submitted: Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:23
ThreadID: 63325 Views:11487 Replies:5 FollowUps:27
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Has any one used one of the cheap honda and yamaha inverter generators that are on ebay such as silent brand and others At about a third of the price of the honda 2.0i etc they can't be ignored The specifications such as noise levels etc seem to be the same but it is still a lot of money if it won't do the job
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Reply By: Trekkie (Member - WA) - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:30

Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:30
How do you rate one third of the cost against one third of the value or capability
The Honda starts every time and never stops - when your 2 days from civilization you rely on the Honda
AnswerID: 334137

Follow Up By: steved58 - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:39

Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:39
trekkie you are probably right and I will probably buy the honda but am curious as to what people who have bought them think
we use some chinese machinery at work and have found the quality has improved to almost the same as aussie models but that may not apply to everything in fact I am sure of it
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Reply By: Isuzumu - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:37

Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:37
I just brought one off E Bay 2 KVA for $356 so I 'll be your guinea pig HEH not one third more like one sixth so have to try it out, but remember I am only doing it for all you chaps out there lol

Cheers Bruce

PS hope to have it by Tuesday then again that could be all wish full thinking to.
AnswerID: 334141

Follow Up By: steved58 - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:42

Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:42
Great Bruce I need a sucker I mean great bloke to part with some money and test them good luck I hope your money is not waisted


Cheers Steve
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:51

Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 21:51
Hi Steve when I get it and if it goes I am going to run it non stop for a week, hope it does not catch fire when I am refueling it lol, so I can sort the warranty heheheheh

Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: steved58 - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 22:04

Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 22:04
Bruce That could be very good for me I am going to the 4wd show in Perth on the 14th and 15th of this month and if the prices are right will probably buy a Honda 2.0I so your input before then could be extremely timely

Thanks Steve
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 22:18

Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 22:18
No worries Steve will let you know how it goes.

Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: Zukscooter - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 20:22

Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 20:22
G'day Bruce,hope it works better than that battery charger you had a couple of months ago. Lol
Cheers Bob.
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 20:49

Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 20:49
Down on my hands and knees praying Mate hehehehe glutton for punishment hey But just imagine if it works hahahaha.

Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic) - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 13:00

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 13:00
Bruce, do you have the right gear to objectively test the generator I wonder? Oscilloscope or the like to see the sine wave which so often with the copies is all over the place. Will it run or cook something electronic?
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 13:55

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 13:55
HI John, I ran the microwave and then a frying pan, the revs stayed constant when running these. It says that the 12 volt out put is 10 amp and under test seems to be putting in a good charge to the battery. Anyway time will tell I suppose.

Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic) - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 14:07

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 14:07
the ocilloscope would help determine how long for though. When I said about "cooking" something electronic, I meant like to stuff it, not fry or use the microwave for a few short minutes. Looks like Bob above, is suggesting you have a reputation to uphold ;-))
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 14:49

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 14:49
Not sure where your coming from John! I never said anywhere I was an expert on these things, but as I was buying one would let people know if it was worth even thinking about buying. And if I want to put my money down the toilet then I will thanks.

Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic) - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 16:18

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 16:18
Same as Geoff is saying below Bruce, is it clean or dirty power to sensitive equipment. If it blows up your computer power supply it is expensive.
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 16:31

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 16:31
If you read all the posts here John you would have seen that I said I only run my laptop on my inverter (from the battery) This machine was brought as an experiment to see what they will do, actually I don't really need a generator. We do not get long periods of time off and when we travel we usually are on the move quite a bit so the vehicles alternator does most of the charging and have a solar panel on the van for keeping that battery charged. So I now hope you know where I am coming from.

Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: Boobook2 - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 21:27

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 21:27
Hey John, if you are so concerned, why don't you go buy your own generator and test that. BTW an Oscilliscope won't tell you that much about distortion.
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Follow Up By: Member - JohnR (Vic) - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 22:07

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 22:07
bb, praps thats why I have a Honda
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Reply By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 22:17

Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 22:17
Hi Steve,
I'm going to take a different tack and answer your question from a purely electrical point of view, neither recommending nor condemning any brand. (Well trying not to condemn any brand)

I've used an oscilloscope (please say if you don't know what this is) to test the outputs of a few different generators and inverters and what I've found is you generally get what you pay for with regards to the "quality" of the output.

The following image is a capture of the mains power. (This is what an oscilloscope does) Anything that can exactly replicate this I would consider "perfect" something we aren't even going to come close to in a portable generator. (It will typically cost you up to $30,000,000 for controls only in a 4 x 500MWatt coal fired power station)

Image Could Not Be Found

Without taking into account the longevity or ease of starting of the petrol engine the dearer the unit the better the "quality" of the electrical output, with one exception.

People will tell you the Engel and the Honda both have Sawafuji electronics and are therefore identical.

The only bit that is identical is the brand of electronics, Sawafuji. The electrical "quality" of their outputs is poles apart.

The Honda is reasonably close to the above image, the Engel is square wave and if you dig deep enough the Engel website will even mention this fact. (I'm actually quite impressed by the ability to get square wave out of an AC machine, that takes real talent! It's of dubious value but it does take talent!)

My only comment after all the above electrical theory is pick one that gives you a level of comfort with the build quality, noise levels, fuel consumption and support network, from my testing the electrics are mostly (with one exception) average to acceptable at approximating mains power.

This ability to approximate mains power is really what we are trying to achieve with a portable generator.

Hope that helps,

Geoff
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Follow Up By: steved58 - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 22:43

Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 22:43
Hi Geoff
I have suspected that the cheaper sine wave generators would give a dirtier output if I may put it that way and I presume that this would possibly cause damage to appliances plugged into it Do you think that placing a in-line surge protection device would circumvent this or am I off track with my limited knowledge of the subject Is it voltage spikes that are the problem or variations in the frequency as I have mentioned I am curious as to the differences given the large difference in price Thanks for your very good response

Steve
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 23:21

Friday, Nov 07, 2008 at 23:21
Hi Steve,
"Dirty power" in my world is certainly an acceptable terminology.

Hmm, you are certainly on track with the surge suppression device and extremely cheap generators. They do seem to struggle with voltage control, I've seen a couple rise toward 280 Volts, at that point I've pulled the plug to protect some very expensive test equipment.

It's really a combination of both voltage and frequency variations and controlling these variations along with controlling electrical "noise". Hence my comment about spending some $30,000,000 to achieve this level of control on a fixed station! (Smaller stations do come cheaper but the cost is far from linear)

Noise is a big variable, some appliances will run connected to some generators and not others. Why? No idea, it's just down to the quality of the power or lack of "dirt" on the power and the appliances tolerance to that noise or "dirt".

As I see it the problem is something like what Formula 1 get up to, it costs everyone a certain amount to qualify. To be at the front and 0.1 seconds per lap quicker than everyone else costs twice as much. To be 0.2 seconds per lap quicker than everyone else costs four times as much.

In generator parlance to make somthing that somewhat qualifies as AC power costs $x. To make something that qualifies as average AC power costs 2 x $x and to make something that is good AC power costs 4 x $x.

The hard part is there are no right and wrong answers on this subject, it's just that some gear is tolerant to "dirty power" and some isn't!

It also helps to understand how tolerant you as the user are to risk. In other words are you happy to have an air conditioner, microwave or battery charger be cooked by a cheap generator if it loses voltage or frequency control for the sake of saving on the initial generator investment?

Again, hope that helps,

Geoff
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Follow Up By: steved58 - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 00:09

Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 00:09
Thanks Geoff
You have helped me to clarify my situation the voltage suppression equipment would help to eliminate the voltage spikes but not the frequency variations and noise piggy backing on the frequency.

As I have just ordered a new caravan and intend using the generator to run the air conditioner when the weather gets unbearable I would not like to risk it

However if I was using it to charge batteries and run cheap appliances it would possibly be worth buying the cheap import.I will probably buy the Honda however I will wait for Bruce to receive his generator and see how it runs.

I think this thread will be helpful for quite a few people as most threads talk about cheap standard generators and not inverters of which there are plenty for sale on places like E bay

Anyway thanks for the very good info
Steve
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Follow Up By: Foxhound (WA) - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 10:48

Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 10:48
Geoff,, That is a perfect explanation, the best I have ever seen on this Forum anyway. Most people who are buying generators have no idea of the technical side of things and buy on price only. I have personally seen several examples of vans and electrical equipment damaged with cheap gen sets. I hope plenty people read your post and take note of the good advice. ..Regards,,, Foxhound(WA).
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 at 16:10

Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 at 16:10
Hi Steve, just to let you know I have received the generator and have it going, give you more details after its beenrunning for a while.

Cheers Bruce

Keep an eye on this thread.
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Reply By: Zukscooter - Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 20:29

Saturday, Nov 08, 2008 at 20:29
Steve,take it from someone who bought a 'Keep-u-por' generator get the Honda you will save yourself from mind & wallet TRAUMA. Lol
Cheers Bob.
AnswerID: 334273

Follow Up By: RV Powerstream P/L - Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 09:08

Monday, Nov 10, 2008 at 09:08
Honda,Yamaha and Subaru Guaranteed quality and Australia wide service available which is a very important component .
There is also now the Cummins Inverters generators which are rebadged Subaru.
Ian
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Reply By: Isuzumu - Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 at 20:10

Thursday, Nov 13, 2008 at 20:10
Well for those how may be interested the Al Cheapo generator turned up today...Took a few pulls to get it going but it went quite happily until I tried to get it to run the compressor on eco mode it stopped but one pull and away it went. I put the microwave on and except for a lot more noise it preformed no ( pretty quite while just running the fridge and light plus battery charger. As Geoff said they do run a little, just a little, bit erratic so maybe not good to run computers etc, I always run my laptop on an inverter anyway.
I ran it for 2.5 hours on about 2 litres of fuel, so what do I think, well for $440 delivered for a 2KVA yep I am happy at the moment. So from guinea pig Bruce that it for now, but I will tell you all if it dies hahahahaha.

Cheers Bruce
AnswerID: 335085

Follow Up By: Ron173 - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 14:10

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 14:10
Hi Bruce,

good luck wirth new genny, I have a chineese honda copy.

(not sure that chineese is all a bad thing these days as lots of good stuff comes from there now, and just about everything gets made there.)

mine is 2.8kva, runs good, and ok on fuel, and will run all van inc ac, and used at home in power cuts, however......

its a monster to lift into ute, 2 man lift or hernia risk.

When my ac cuts in it sounds like a Harley on full song, loud as!!!

I'm hoping to upgrade to the honda when funds available, for reasons of mainly portability, noise, and fuel economy.

keep us posted on your progress, what make is yours?

Ron
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 14:42

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 14:42
Hi Ron yep sounds like mine a little noisy on full throttle, mine weight 26 Kilo, weighted it myself, but feels more like 40 hahaha. All I can see is XG-SF2000 as far a a make goes. Ok thanks for the reply.

Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: Ron173 - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 15:30

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 15:30
The honda is a lot of coin, but its light, quiet, and economic.

Also very stealable I might add, so security is an issue.

I will just make sure my German Shepherd has enough range to get to it, when tethered of an evening.


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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 16:01

Friday, Nov 14, 2008 at 16:01
If anyone tried stealing this one I don't think they would be running to fast hahahahah.

Cheers Bruce
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Follow Up By: steved58 - Monday, Nov 17, 2008 at 21:02

Monday, Nov 17, 2008 at 21:02
Bruce
Thanks for the feedback it looks like the cheapo Chinese might be ok for your use I have thought long and hard about it and at the 4wd show in Perth bought a Honda 2.0I at a good price of $1599 with 5 year warranty It is a lot dearer than the Chinese copies but as I will be running the air conditioner and lap top on it I thought it would be better to get the real thing.
I am still very interested in the cheap ones though as they would be very good for running cheap appliances without electronics and for charging batteries although I would be putting them through a surge suppressor to eliminate possible spikes I won't get the Honda till Friday I want to play with it

Catch ya
Steve
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Follow Up By: Isuzumu - Monday, Nov 17, 2008 at 21:24

Monday, Nov 17, 2008 at 21:24
Hi Steve, not sure what wattage your A/C is but today doing some tests I had a 1500watt vacuum cleaner, lights and fridge in the van on plus the battery charger 10 amp and had it in economy mode and it was pretty quite. Also this one has a 10 amp DC charger most are 8.3. And totally understand where your coming from when buying the Honda, I will have to keep a record of the hours I have it going for.

Cheers Bruce
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