Landcruiser 200 Petrol Diesel

Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 18:26

Bobjl

I am now looking at bigger Tow Vehicle and LC 200 is on the radar, albeit the expense is hard to justify.

I understand that there is a significant price variation between Petrol 4.7l and Diesel twin Turbo 4.5l.even if buying late model used.

I am looking for some guidance as to merits of both including economy when towing 22' that will come around 2700kg gross and is tall.

I am less than keen on installing LPG if go petrol but seek views on same.

Bob
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AnswerID: 378055   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 19:57

Member - Toyocrusa (NSW) replied:

Hi.My brother has a turbo Sahara towing a 24ft Boroma, total weight 3460kg. averaging around 20l/100k. Worst was across the Nullabour into a headwind. 24l/100k, tows it easily with some in reserve. Bob.
How True. Courtesy of the Breakwater.Port Maquarie
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FollowupID: 645404   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 20:09

Bobjl posted:

Thanks, sounds like Diesel economical and as gutsy as generally reported.

Bob
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AnswerID: 378069   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 20:34

Robin Miller replied:

The results of my recent tests of 200 series and the latest model of my petrol patrol were -->

200 series diesel signifcantly the most powerful but the other two both had massively enough power as verified by the fact that they could get to 100kmh in around 10 secs and each had in excess of 400nm of torque over a wide band making them all excellant tow vehicles.

so that leaves

200 series diesel , 10.5 lt/100km at $85000

200 series petrol using 14.5lt/100km at $74000

4800 patrol using 17.2 lt/100km at $54000

I.E. In petrol the patrol used 11% more fuel and cost $20000 less

Really its no contest if towing is a major consideration.
Robin Miller
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FollowupID: 645408   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 21:03

Bobjl posted:

Great info thanks Robin. I did think casually about Patrol but having driven 3l diesel a couple of years ago I was very disappointed, it sounds like I can keep $20k in the pocket and acheive approx 17/100 towing if go petrol patrol.
Worthy of reconsideration.
Bob
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FollowupID: 645423   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 22:06

Robin Miller posted:

At least take the 4800 for a test drive Bob , you will find it quite a different vehicle from the 3lt.
Robin Miller
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FollowupID: 645427   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 22:27

TerraFirma posted:

You can't compare the Patrol with the Cruiser even with a $20k extra spend, the cruiser is by far superior, in every facet, NVH levels, build quality, size, reliability, sure if you wanna buy a vehicle on mathematical equations only buy the Patrol, but if your going to make a price comparsion or differential, then at least explain why the Cruiser is dearer.

Thats not to say the Patrol is a bad vehicle, it isn't, but it is a dinosaur compared to the Cruiser. So the $20k extra buys you plenty of extra vehicle IMO.
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FollowupID: 645430   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 22:51

umopap!sdn posted:

Ummmm..............

You won't get anywhere near 17/100 towing anything with a petrol patrol.
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FollowupID: 645456   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 08:39

Robin Miller posted:

Hi Guys

Umopap!dn , after having a Petrol patrol for 200,000k with a long term fuel average of 16.5 lt/100 I'd dispute that , however in the interests of an honest comparison the figures I quote of 14.5 cruiser and 17.2 for patrol are the ADR figures for both , and both use more towing.


Terra
The cars are different types , and some prefer the much simpler dinosaur coil springs live axles and 16 inch wheel availability for bush work, and reliability of the petrol patrol is near perfect, I believe I have reported the only failure in its 7 year engine history.
I hope the cruiser can match it, but it will a hard act to follow.

Their is little difference in NVH on the highway , and in fact I have specifally measured the Cruiser diesel as having higher engine noise at low crawling speeds (Tick tick sound).

The petrol cruiser is the quietest with the windows up but its a marginal difference and both provide levels that provide quite comfortable touring.

The Patrol still has the longer wheelbase , part of its sucess as a tourer.

The patrol still has the best rollover tilt table figure of 48 degrees, but the cruiser is quite good at about 45.

The cruiser is significantly larger inside , this can be good or bad , its for the user to decide. real 4wding tends to favour the car that can glide thru the bush most easily.

The patrol is some 200mm narrower up top which allowed me to just scrape through a heavily overgrwn beach track recently (although both mirrors got knocked in at once would you believe.)

At the end of the day , both can have locker diffs and long suspension travel so , if not size limited both have the same ultimate 4wding capability.

The Patrol already has long range tanks to 220lt available for it off the shelf giving it the best range of the petrols despite the 11% fuel advantage of the petrol cruiser.

In summary the cruiser is a great vehicle and I don't knock it. I felt a little uncomfortable with its bulk but other users might prefer this, but don't compare the 4800 patrol based on issues the 3lt has had , they really are different animals, and $20,000 dollars goes a long way.
























Robin Miller
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FollowupID: 645459   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 09:20

Bobjl posted:

Robin
Great info, balanced and objective as were other contributors. I am relatively new to Explor Oz and the forum and find it as I expect all others do, an invaluable source of information

The feedback in this matter will allow me to either go with the heart or maybe the head.

As a burly loud striped bloke screamed at me long ago "PP&PPPPP". Having completed most of those P's in this case, and and armed with the various advice's, I may just well perform better overall.

Thanks to all for helpful advice.

Bob
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FollowupID: 645466   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 11:25

Best Off Road posted:

Bob,

I fullly agree with Robin's suggestion to give the Datsun a try.

My Old Man was towing a 22' van with the works; en suite, aircon, TV etc.

His Patrol was a 4.8 Auto with the old "mixer" style LPG. If you've ever driven the Hume Melbourne to Sydney you'll know there a lot of long steep hills. None of the hills slowed him to less than 80 km/h. He used about 33L/100km doing 100 to 110 km/h.

I also borrowed it once to tow our 16" van. It didn't so much tow it; rather it ripped it down the road LOL.

Fitted with the new sequential injection LPG it would be more powerful and economical.

Disclaimer: LPG may be expensive and/or have limited availability in remore areas.

Cheers,

Jim.

Best Off Road
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FollowupID: 645475   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 13:50

Davo_60 posted:

Just completed a Syd-Melb return in a work 200 series petrol and got 15l/100km at 115km/h, so they are thirsty and will use much more towing I expect.

However it is a beautifully smooth vehicle on road and worth every bit of the 20k extra over the patrol. The 100 series was far nicer on road than the GU, the 200 is in a league of it's own. The Patrol is well outdated in this respect, this however does not mean it is not a good vehicle for the price and for the intended application, but a serious competitor to the 200 it is not.

Dave
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FollowupID: 645484   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 15:58

Mark S (cns) posted:

Landcruiser GXL 200 series petrol 4.7:
driveaway $80,370 in qld (from discountnewcars website)

Patrol st 4.8:
driveaway $63,800 in qld (from discountnewcars website)
(if you can get one for $54k - buy it.... :)

LC200 has the following main features that patrol hasn't (probably due to a design dating back to mid nineties):
6 airbags (i.e all rows covered), EBD braking, seatbelt pretensioners, hill ascent & decent control, 6 cd, dual zone air con, up-to-date audio system (bluetooth etc). 40l bigger fuel tank std.

Looking at this, it would almost be fair to compare the top of the range patrol ti, (gets leather, dvd, sunroof, 6cd but still misses a few things mentioned above that the new LC has, so seems to be a more even comparo when age of design is considered, yes? (logic at work!)
This comes in at $83,460!! (from the same website as above again - no smoke n mirrors here...) now isn't that a strange coincidence - same price as a current day design LC200!! facts are facts......

So, really, when you compare apples with apples (well, as much as you can given the design age is poles apart on both vehicles) there is not a huge difference, especially when you consider LC will use about 25-26l/100, patrol 32-34l/100 towing 2.5 - 3t (these are real world figures which some just cannot admit to.....), so, IMO, 'yes it still is a contest'

More food for thought for Bob!
Bob, comes down to personal preference, and, as has been said, take them both for a good long drive (that's if you can find a 4.8 patrol to test)
They both have pluses over each other (patrol better off-road std, LC200 better on-road std)

Mark



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FollowupID: 645538   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 20:17

Member - Captain (WA) posted:

...Mark S (CNS) wrote "(patrol better off-road std, LC200 better on-road std)...

Mark, have you ever driven both the Patrol & 200 offroad? I have owned both and in standard form the 200 has MORE suspension travel (if fitted with KDSS) and with traction control (very effective on the 200) it will easily keep going forward with only two wheels on the deck. It is let down by its sheer size and front approach angle (ARB bar fixes that) but if you don't mind a few scratches the 200 will ultimately get you further offroad than the Patrol (in stock form). But start fitting lifts etc... and ultimately the Patrol has more offroad customization available.

Cheers

Captain
Its not what you drive, but how you drive it!
LC 200 + AOR Quantum
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FollowupID: 645545   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 20:47

Mark S (cns) posted:

Yes, I have driven both off road, as part of work trips (although the patrol was the 3.0l).
Drove a 200 (diesel) from Aurukun to Weipa in april, just after the wet, when the road was a goat track (well the section out to the PDR was).
Have driven the Patrol a few times down the coast road (Bloomfield track), and despite being nervous in 3yr old 4wd hire vehicle 3.0l with 60-70k on the clock, it was surprisingly good for a live axle setup.

I hear what you say re the 200 off-road and my comment was more a generalisation in terms of the Patrol being truck-like compared to the 200.
That said, The 200 I drove had the factory black steel bar up front, and combined with the fact that it's 30k on the clock have been on pretty rough roads (based in Weipa), the front end was noticably low, an did bottom out on occassion (no it wasn't being driven like it was stolen..) I suggested to the regular driver that he look at aftermarket suspension for the front end at least.

Interesting about the prices though when you try to line up all specs as best you can - certainly not $20k in it, and really makes the 200 an attractive proposition

Cheers
Mark
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FollowupID: 645647   Submitted: Sunday, Aug 09, 2009 at 18:44

Robin Miller posted:

Mark

The figures I have quoted showing $20,000 difference are very real from my recent test drives - and the $54 for a Patrol is a live offer I have open which is in force , and includes the new shipment about to arrive.

Nissan standard sale price till 30 june was nationally advertized as $55 and thats where discount cars has picked up that other price ( I clicked on that add to).

I like the cruiser a lot , but am struggling to find any reason to spend $20000 or $31000 more for the diesel.

Most of the things you mention like 6 air bags , Blue tooth .... are just negatives for some of us.

If I were able to register on the LC200 site I would make an offer for someone to come are follow my Patrol on some of my own tracks (guaranteed safe and not car damagaing ) to just really see how its goes in and out of the bush.

I have previously done this with a brand new Discovery - it got bogged following me I'm afraid.

If anyone knows anyone here in Vic with a LC200 that would like a nice day out then I make the offer.


Captain - when are you moving to Victoria !








Robin Miller
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AnswerID: 378070   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 20:36

Member - Axle replied:

G/Day Bob, There is a lot out there pondering the same question..lol,


I have a 100series 4.7 V8, and tow a 2T van,. the economy is around 19- 20ltr/ 100k. The latest V8 petrol has variable valve timing which has helped quite a bit, but on saying that while diesel is cheaper than unleaded it makes it a difficult decision, service costs,purchase price to start with,all come into the equation, the rumor is there is a larger petrol lV8 on its way for the cruiser that is giving big hp, and possibly better economy. INMHO I would lean towards the petrol if this was the case but really it needs a petrol and a diesel model to run over a five yr period doing the same work and kms together to get a reasonable comparison overall.

Cheers Axle.
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FollowupID: 645409   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 21:08

Bobjl posted:

Thanks Axle - it is good to hear some positive feedback on petrol but obviously several factors involved and which need consideration.
Bob
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FollowupID: 645498   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 16:52

Boobook2 posted:

Axle,

If I were a betting man, I would back the new 4.6l V8 that has appeared in the Japan delivery 200 over the bigger US/lexus 5.7 litre version replacing the 4.7l petrol in Australia.

The 4.6l is 234Kw and 460NM compared to the 4.7L at 202Kw and 410NM.
200 with 2012 Tvan Canning
VKS Mobile 1523
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AnswerID: 378080   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 21:13

Member - ken b (QLD) replied:

hey boys. us diesel blokes allways have palm oil to fall back on. what is going to happen to petrol motors. and this is going to happen in our lifetime. Thumbs UpThanks 0
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FollowupID: 645414   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 21:25

Bobjl posted:

Noted Ken.
Maybe we will we pulling our vans and motor homes or 4WDing with Hybrid power plants sooner than later as well.
Bob
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AnswerID: 378092   Submitted: Friday, Aug 07, 2009 at 22:32

TerraFirma replied:

The biggest question here is how much towing will you do and how often? The Petrol cruiser has plenty going for it if you believe reports that it takes the Diesel 250,000kms to become a long term better buy than the petrol. I love the diesel torque and economy, range etc, but I worry about the quality of diesel, and the higher servicing costs along with the considerably higher price tag. If you tow all the time and you tow something big then the diesel is the hands down winner, but that doesn't mean the Petrol isn't an awesome towing vehicle also.? Hope that makes sense.
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AnswerID: 378102   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 02:49

Member - Captain (WA) replied:

Hi Bob,

While both the petrol and diesel 200's are good tow vehicles, the diesel does have >200Nm more torque so if towing is your primary requirement there is no comparison behind the wheel.

However, the extra $10K cost of the diesel will certainly buy a lot of unleaded - but when it comes time to sell you will get back most of the $10K extra spent on the diesel, so arguably minimal difference in cost 5 years down the track - and if most of that time was spent towing 2700kg you will likely be way in front by some margin.

When I got my TTD 200 I actually went in to buy a Prado D4D, but they had a demo TTD 200 sitting there and thought I would like to at least see what the V8 went like. Bad move as once I drove it there was no way I could spend ~$60K on a D4D Prado when the V8 TTD was THAT much better. 650Nm of torque is massive and makes the 200 drive like I thought no 4WD ever could. I must admit my 200 purchase was a heart, not a head, decision :)

I have had my 200 for over a year now and have not once regretted getting it. It does have a high price tag so if buying on tech specs alone it would be hard to justify. But how much a price tag do you put on the fun factor ;)

Cheers

Captain
Its not what you drive, but how you drive it!
LC 200 + AOR Quantum
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FollowupID: 645515   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 18:40

Bobjl posted:

Captain.
Your point on resale seems spot on - refer other posting.
Thanks
Bob
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AnswerID: 378110   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 07:44

Member - Alan H (QLD) replied:

Coming from a 80 series I now drive a 200 series diesel and tow a large offroad van. The power of the 200 is just great.

Range may also be an issue if you intend to tow.

Not towing I get about 10-11 l/100km
Towing the van I get about 20-21 l/100km

Range is about 1000km not towing
800km towing the camper trailer
600km towing the offroad van

Always had diesel so I am a bit biased

At 100kph it ticks over at 1500rpm on a flat surface

Enjoy whichever vehicle you end up with

Alan
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FollowupID: 645514   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 18:38

Bobjl posted:

Appreciate feedback thanks Alan. As I will be doing long distance towing 15-20,000 kilom's annually next two years, the economy of the diesel may create some savings.

FYI I was chatting with Toyota Dealer today sharing my situation and he encouraged LC TTD on the basis that whilst may expend extra $15k or so now however after 5 years, the resale value of Diesel is significantly greater than Petrol.

Maybe I could buy petrol Patrol or LC and punt the $15k on the red at the casino, or buy some shares and hope for big return. Dreaming again.

Bob
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AnswerID: 378127   Submitted: Saturday, Aug 08, 2009 at 10:59

Gone Bush (WA) replied:

Bobjl,

Your decision also depends on your age.

These days a lot of my decisions are based on my personal mantra:

"You don't see too many hearses towing trailers."

I'm glad I ain't too scared to be lazy
- Augustus McCrae
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