100 series LPG conversion

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 13:45

Bigsuz

Hi all,
First time here, female, little knowlege, but eager to learn. So please go easy lads! We purchased a 2004 V8 100S 6 months ago with the intention of putting it on gas (towing 23' van to do the lap with 3 kids on tow in a few years). Ideally a turbo diesel would have been the go, but none about, so we went with this one.
I'm now questioning the logic of the conversion eg, gas prices increasing anyway, cost to have better valve clearance, gas conversion itself, loss of fuel tank. Availability of LPG an issue in remote areas I hear also. Have recently spoken to someone that had this done and only got 42k out of it before the valves went anyway, then $6,500 to have repair and then gas system removed.
I may have answered my own question! But would really like to hear your thoughts as you all seem to know what you're on about here.
Thanks!
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AnswerID: 445782   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 14:06

Member - Graham H (QLD) replied:

While on here is good there is a forum called LCOOL which is everything TOYOTA and will answer almost any question on them

You have to join(for free)

Have a look there.
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AnswerID: 445787   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 14:20

Rod W replied:

Can't comment on the V8. But my 75 series with the 1fzfe 4.5lt (6cyl) is on gas. It returned 4.5ks per litre on gas and 5.6ks per litre on petrol. So the economy is 20 percent less on gas along with a loss in performance and this is noticed when switching between the two fuels. Mechnical wise since the gas conversion (done 160,000ks on gas) there has never been a problem but then the 1fzfe has been described as bullet proof.

Given the cost of the conversion and the fourthcoming increase in the price of gas I don't think I would do it today.

Gas may be good for the planet but economy and the pocket it is not.

I'd leave your 100S as is and spend the money by installing a 3rd fuel tank (ie above the rear drive shaft) or a bigger main or current reserve tank/s to give travel distances.
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FollowupID: 718111   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 16:08

Baz&Pud (Tassie) posted:

Interesting comment on ks per litre, we have a 2002 V8 petrol, and when towing a 2.5 ton van we average 4.6 ks per litre.
So when you look at the cost of conversion, and the pending hike in gas price and the little difference in kpl i wouldn't fiddle with the vehicle at all, leave it as it is.
Cheers
Baz
Go caravaning, life is so much shorter than death.
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FollowupID: 718114   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 16:34

Member - Bruce C (NSW) posted:

Hi Baz,

That is the only dark cloud on the horizon.

But just a short while ago diesel went to $1.90 a littre here on the mid North Coast NSW and it could do it again.

According to my calcs, while gas is half the price of diesel it is still the better choice given the higher cost of a diesel vehicle and the repair costs when they start to occur. My 80 4.5 virtually cost me nothing except for the gas install and the government piad 2/3 of that.

This diesel I now own is a totally different story. Sure I save at the pump but that is the only place you save. servicing cost are significantly higher and twice as frequent.

If you do the whole of life sums on diesel versus petrol ownership, petrol wins by a moderate margin.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.
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FollowupID: 718116   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 16:48

Member - Bruce C (NSW) posted:

Another thought Baz,

The guy I bought the diesel off replaced it with a 2005 V8 100 ser. cruiser and he said he was getting 17.5 lp100 out of the diesel I bought and he was now getting 22lp 100 in the newer V8.

Mind you when I got the diesel it was running like a dog. She's a flyer now but it cost some money to get there.

The diesels return around 5.5 kilometres per litre according to my experience, the comments I have sought from other travellers on the road and from many posts over the last 2 years here on EO. That sits well with your experience so you most certainly have a point and well worth considering in the mix.



Petrol vehicles are more plentiful, easier to come by therefore and cheaper to service and repair in the engine dept.

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.
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FollowupID: 718137   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 19:34

OREJAP posted:

Hi Bruce C, You state the diesels return 5.5 K/pLtr....so they are using 18.18 litres per 100 km!!!! Gee that's heavy my 3.2 ltr Pajero diesel (auto) returns between 9 & 10 ltrs per 100 Km. I was on the phone talking to my BIL & he was relating his trip to WA from Vic last year. Petrol for his 80 series was $2.15 p/l & LPG was $1.89 in W Aust. & that's IF you can find the LPG seller fella!! He was towing a 21' Concept full van & was getting 3 to 3.5 Km per ltr on LPG & about 5 on petrol. You make some good points about LPG but I guess it's up to the individual. When I looked at the cost of a spare wheel carrier $1800 from Kaymar, loss of fuel carrying capacity & all the other costs I thought.. ...Well with diesel you just drop the oil replace the filter put in the oil & away you go. No tuning, setting valves, adding upper cyclinder lubricant & having the vehicle dynotuned.....I had a real bad experience with Gas. with my L/Cruiser...because it ran hotter the radiator tanks fractured & required repair....had the head replaced twice....so I am a bit bias....so I believe Gas belongs in BBQ IMO...but hey, blokes like you and Robin Miller swear by the LPG. To each his own. To the original poster, 1st time on the Forum,Welcome & enjoy the experience. Monty
PATIENCE IS THE ART OF LOSING ONE'S TEMPER SLOWLY.
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FollowupID: 718163   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 23:24

chisel posted:

Most common figures I've heard for the 100 TD are about 10-11L/100k on the highway (unloaded, not towing).
In mine (2006 TD) see about 11 highway and 14 around town. Also get around 13-14 is heavily loaded with large roofrack and touring (at 100kph mostly).

Generally see figures of 16-20L/100k for towing, but I don't have personal experience of that.
I would say the 18L/100k stated is very high - or must be while towing a heavy van. Or perhaps not a 100 TD?
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FollowupID: 718167   Submitted: Friday, Feb 18, 2011 at 02:19

fisho64 posted:

"Petrol for his 80 series was $2.15 p/l & LPG was $1.89 in W Aust."

wow- search on Fuelwatch back to 2005 shows the highest average (Kimberley) to be 111c, thats not cheapest its average.
He may have been ripped?
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FollowupID: 718177   Submitted: Friday, Feb 18, 2011 at 09:29

OREJAP posted:

Cheaper than victoria!!!! LOL
PATIENCE IS THE ART OF LOSING ONE'S TEMPER SLOWLY.
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FollowupID: 718212   Submitted: Friday, Feb 18, 2011 at 17:10

Member - Bruce C (NSW) posted:

Hi Orejap,

Those figures are for towing between a 2 to three tonne van. 5.5 K per Litre is normal.

Free running they are getting around the 10 to 11.5 K per litre diesel of course.

As I said the further away from the settled areas you go gas gets dearer but so does every other fuel. I live on the mid north coast of NSW and we always get slugged for fuel no matter what fuel you use.

I got a good TJM spare wheel carrier from Ebay for $450 and bolted it on. No need to get ripped off buying new. How they can get away charging the prices they do has got me beat. But then there are people out there who think nothing of paying top dollar.

Your BIL is spot on with his usage on LPG as I used to get the same consumption, but when you do the sums, remembering that we are only on hols for a few weeks per year, providing gas is half the price od diesel which it is in my area, gas works out the same kilometres per dollar as diesel.

So there are the calcs.
Diesel towing = 5.5 K pl $1.40 per litre = 25 cents per K
Gas towing = 3.3 Kpl as i used to get $0.70 per litre. = 22 cents per K

Cheers, Bruce.
At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.
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AnswerID: 445793   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 15:06

Member - Bruce C (NSW) replied:

Hi Bigsuz,

Welcome to the forum and hope we see you here many more times.

I have had gas powered vehicles for the last 15 tears and never a problem.

I had an 1997 80 series Landcruiser 4.5 petrol which I converted to gas, actually duel fuel, and found it was brilliant. If you get someone who knows what they are doing then you can't go wrong. It had 315 thousand on it when I got it. I put another 50 thousand on it without a single problem, .............. till I bent it.

I always have dual fuel as you can always switch to petrol if you run out of gas. Straight gas is a problem if you run out. It usually means a tow.

If someone is getting less power on the gas than petrol then the engine tune has not been adjusted properly for the gas.

The 80 series on gas returned the same kilometres per dollar as a turbo diesel when towing, and no turbo lag.

If you are traveling in the southern parts of the country gas is plentiful and cheap compared to the northern parts. The further north you go the more expensive it becomes and the less it is available. North of Rockhampton and the tropic of capricorn it becomes a little more difficult to find.

The V8 Landcruiser has to have the dearer conversion, sequential injection I think they call it, as the conventional fumigation method does not work any where near as well and they consume more gas than they should.

You will get a lot of negative comments about gas but I would suggest that other factors came into play when failures occurred. As I said I had a vehicle converted when it had 315 thousand on the clock and i loved that machine.
I frequently pulled a 2.2 tonne van with it and the only time I found it lacked power was on top of the great dividing range and any vehicle will lose power up there as there is slightly less oxygen in the atmosphere there.

This is borne out by the trail bikers in my area who regularly complain that their bikes do not perform as well as down here on the coast.

This is my personal experience, not someone else's comment passed on.

Even if you do have to get the heads done up you may well come out in front money wise in the long run as diesels can be bl@@dy expensive ones things need to be done, like $10,000 for a rebuild as I have just forked out. ( includes injectors and motor)

There are plenty of members on here that have had gas fitted to their vehicles for years and never a problem.

I currently own a 1996 turbo diesel Landcruiser with gas and it works well. But diesel over gas is a whole other ball game. I included that comment so that you can see I am not biased toward any fuel.

My advice is to sit back for a day or so and see what other comments you get and then make an informed decision which suits your situation.

All the best with your decision making and the future.

Cheers, Bruce.






At home and at ease on a track that I know not and
restless and lost on a track that I know. HL.
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AnswerID: 445801   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 16:54

Member - Tony V (NSW) replied:

I agree that LCOOL may be a better forum on the question of LPG.

i think that looking at the Big Picture is the only way to decide.
I have had LPG vehicles since 1983, including a 72 range Rover, 89 Partol, 94 80 Landcruiser.

I brought a new V8 100 in 2004 and had the dealer put it on LPG before delivery.
The car has just has its 200,000 km service.I have not heard of the V8 burning valves.
The original LPG "carb" system was replaced with LPG injection in 2009. (to take advantage of the Gov rebate)
This is a great improvement in performance so power loss is minimal.

I don't tow a big van anymore (18 footer), just a camper or a boat, but with a small camper and doing Cameron Corner and a few outback locations I managed 13.5 ltrs per 100 on petrol and 14.5 on LPG.
This is the exception as towing speeds were in convoy an 90kmh was the top speed.
In general and around town
LPG 17-18ltr per 100.
Petrol 15-16 ltrs per 100.

I run LPG most of the time and although I have done many long and remote trips I have only ever had to carry an addition 40ltrs of fuel. (mostly unused).

There are a few places where my vehicle is not suitable, Canning Stock Route is one, but the Simpson is no issue.

At the last place LPG is available I top up and switch to petrol (95 ltrs) that is good for 500kms plus not towing.
LPG is 80 ltrs usable and a range of 400 kms plus not towing.

So overall I have saved a great deal and had the pleasure of driving a petrol V8.

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AnswerID: 445806   Submitted: Thursday, Feb 17, 2011 at 17:38

andy mitchell replied:

hi bigsuz

we have a 2005 landcruiser gxl update with the 4.7ltr v8 and 5spd auto, fitted with the vapour gas injection system and a 90ltr gas tank in place of the sub tank and spare wheel mount.
on day to day driving, some high way and some town driving (not towing) we get around 400km per tank of gas. we have just returned from northern nsw for Christmas holidays towing approx 1900kg 21ft windsor genesis van while noticing no loss of power between petrol and gas at all, gas use did increase quite considerably at worst travelling 200km per tank of gas approx 70ltrs, the best km per litres we received was 300km per tank of gas.
we also found that gas was a bit harder to find in nsw compared to victoria and more expensive also.
we do not regret having the vapour gas injection conversion fitted and have been very happy with it over all.
you could also look at fitting an LPI liquid petroleum gas injection system that are available now being the latest in gas systems.

hope this goes some way in helping you decide.
kind regards andrew.
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AnswerID: 445880   Submitted: Friday, Feb 18, 2011 at 13:10

Bigsuz replied:

Thanks for your input folks, seems a bit of a split down the middle as far as opinion on here goes. I think maybe leaning towards leaving it be now, seems a lot of money to spend for very small gain in the long run.
Will have look at LCOOL as suggested too. Thanks so much.
Regards,
Alison.
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