Cyclists and Walkers Using Roads?

This is an interesting topic and if you think about the issues involved there are some major concerns with mixing slow moving traffic with fast moving traffic. Similarly you are mixing protected traffic, Motor Vehicles, with unprotected traffic, Cyclists and Pedestrians.

I see this basically as a recipe for disaster.

One of the major issues is the size of a person on a cycle or walking. If for instance you are driving along and there is a 40 tonne truck and a pedestrian on the road ahead, your eyes are drawn to the largest object, and what we perceive to be the biggest threat to us.

Of course the same applies to motor cyclists to some degree but if they ride with the lights on and use high visibility outer wear this improves the chances of seeing them.

I don't know if it's law but the practical side to walk on is the oncoming vehicle side as these are the closest to you and potentially the most hazardous to your continued good health.

So yes by all means make em wear bright high visibility clothing, yes make em keep off the roads where practicable, but at the end of the day it's not illegal to walk or ride on any of our major roads with the exception of a few motorways.

THis is an extract from the Aust Road Rules

238 Pedestrians travelling along a road (except in or on a
wheeled recreational device or toy)

(1) A pedestrian must not travel along a road if there is a footpath
or nature strip adjacent to the road, unless it is impracticable to
travel on the footpath or nature strip.
Offence provision.
Note Footpath and nature strip are defined in the dictionary.
(2) A pedestrian travelling along a road:
(a) must keep as far to the left or right side of the road as is
practicable; and
(b) must not travel on the road alongside more than 1 other
pedestrian or vehicle travelling on the road in the same
direction as the pedestrian, unless the pedestrian is
overtaking other pedestrians.

Q1. I think you are doing more than most. Is it enough? It depends on the situation. Like you said there are many different reasons for the location that you walk and what you wear.

Q2. When walking I usually walk against the traffic so that you can see it coming. But it is eaqsiest to be seen on the outer side of a bend.

Q3. I rarely see campaingners on the road. There are many causes and charities scrambling for everyones' attention so any message quickly fades. I do know a guy who did this on a bike. For me his message stayed with me, but only because I know him. So Iguess the messages have a greater effect on the people directly affected. I find for many campaigners, it is a more about the personal journey rather than simply raising money or awareness.

Q4. All of the ones mentioned, but best to follow up with person to person contact, theough schools, community groups etc.

Q5. there are difficult people in all walks of life, it's only when they meet that there are problems.

Keep it up and good luck

R.

Hi

Its a tough one, I was a cyclist until my health went down hill. It should be common sense, which is not very common at all these days. Main roads are usually fine to ride on, but when cyclist go on dirt roads with small hills and corners, they are looking for trouble.
Have you ever come over a hill or around a corner to find someone on a bike? As you pass (even at 70k's) thinking to yourself "good thing there was nothing coming from the other way". Usually these roads are narrow, leaving less room to move out of trouble.
Bikes have a place on our roads and I want that to remain the case, but the roads must suit the situation.
Cyclist or walkers need to do so without their bloody ipods on.

That's my 2 Bob.

Wato

Gday,
!st of all good on you for doing your bit for charity/illness.
But to be honest , Im not a big fan of walkers and cyclists on roads. Depending were there are of course, but a lot of the time I think they are dangerous........roads were really designed with motor vehicles in mind not walkers but we could argue that till the cows come home so Ill leave it at that as Its not illegal as far as I know and its a free country........well......thats debateable too.

Q1.I think you do more than most, so good on ya. But the only real way of letting people know would be a vehicle a few hundred meters behind you with flashing lights and signage who can get off the road when vehicles approach. Do you have a mirror so you know when vehiclesare comming up behind you? A truck from each direction will just run you over rather than having a head on.

Q2 I dont think it matters a lot but its a bit hard to have a warning vehicle if your walking into the traffic.

Q3 A warning vehicle.

Q4 Sorry mate.....I know its for a good cause, but I dont think walkers should be allowed and cyclists debateable.

Good luck anyway

Cheers

Hi Terra’Mer

1. Most times I have seen walking campaigners, there have been escort vehicles, flashing lights etc. Perhaps this is the only way to truly stay safe – but imagine the cost. Unfortunately Australian drivers generally expect to have the right to use the road uninterrupted. A great contrast to Bali, where pedestrians amble down the middle of the road as it is their tradition and right, no-one gets impatient or angry.

2. I have always been taught that pedestrians walk on the right side of the road, facing the traffic. You can see what is coming at you and jump in the gutter if it looks that bad.

3. With people going about their business, I would consider it rare for motorists on the open road to stop. In towns the walker, and any support crew if present, will talk to people in the street and this is the main contact.

4. As you will no doubt be walking on major roads, much of it will be through traffic and not related to the local area to know through local media, press, Council or what ever publicity. However the publicity gained for your cause from doing that is a separate issue to road safety. You may even be able to obtain a few volunteers to act as support for you whilst walking through their town.

5. Because of speed of travel, walkers are rarely a traffic obstruction for long, however I am not an impatient driver. Cyclists can be a bit of a hazard, and Murphy says we will come on them quickly without warning, at the base of a hill on a double white line. Option is to pull partially over the line and whizz past, or brake and slow to a crawl up the hill. The former is not an option in the face of an approaching road train. Those who cycle in tandem when there is traffic behind them are annoying.

Is this how you have seen it in the past? Good luck with your latest venture.

Motherhen

Hi,

From a B-Double drivers point of view i find cyclists on a main h/way, specially some of the windy sections, down right dangerous.

I have had many a discussion with cyclists on this issue, and from their point of view everyone has to give way to them.

Doing a 100kph with 60 odd tonne behind you and coming up on a push bike and another truck coming the other way makes for a very unpleasant situation.
And of course the first to be accused is the trucky. The wind generated when a truck goes by is enormous.

There are some roads we have where in my opinion push bikes should not be allowed, I live FNQ and one of those roads should be the Kuranda Range, bikes should be banned.

Most truckys give warnings to each others by UHF, about hazards ahead, including push bikes.

Col

Q2. I walk toward the traffic and watch the driver. I am therefore able to move off the road when traffic comes. We live in a rural town so not many paths around to do the daily hike.
I do think they should get out of the way when larger vehicles are about. Its bad enough to keep a larger vehicle on these crumbling potholed roads with out a push bike in the way.

Q1. With a Hi Vis vest and flashing bike lights front and rear, I can't see you doing much more to be noticed - I'm into fitness cycling in my local region - have recently ordered some new flashing lights for both of my bikes - Smart brand - very intense single LED lensed flashers - about $35 each, but they can be seen a very long way away.

Q2. I'd rather see the walker moving against the traffic - that way I know they are getting a good view of what's happening close to them.

Q3. We just usually wave and keep going unless its remote and/or hot - we then try and check if they need any supplies (presuming we have a spot to pull over).

Q4. Mostly, the media wouldn't work in our case - we just need to see the walker in advance if possible, when touring.

Q5. I don't mind them, but I do hope they keep safety margins for passing vehicles foremost in their thoughts - if a "situation" develops, we tourists often have scant time and minimal safe zones to move the rig into.

Have a great walk ! Don't forget the blister tape :-o).

Good on you Terra
In Qld walking on the left hand side of the road can attract a $40 fine.
I think it has been illegal here for many years.
Fatso

Great feedback Everyone! I'm taking notes so keep it coming : )

Common sense is all that is needed by all parties.. AS we say here in NSW "The road is there to share".. What we dont need is more rules and regulations that are not enforceable..... Michael

I ride a bike to work every day.
I ride on weekends for the fun of it.
I sometimes ride on holidays - just spent 3 weeks cycling in Vietnam.
And I own a Landcruiser!

But we all have to work together to make cycling/walking/driving safe.
Many cyclists get killed and injured. But they need to look after themselves - make themselves clearly visible with fluoro tops and LED lights; be aware of the traffic and keep out of the way of vehicles.

I have to say i would never ride on an Australian Highway - it way too dangerous because of the speeds involved. In Vietnam, the cyclists and motorbikes have to deal with huge volumes of traffic on really bad roads, but they don't have attitude - they just get out of the way of one another, they use their common sense rather than a set of road rules....works reasonably well over there.

And our cities need to become more bike friendly - Adelaide is not bad - I spend most of my time on dedicated bike/walking tracks such as Linear park and along the beaches. Spent last weekend in sydney - couldn't imagine riding a bike there!

There are some real and unavoudable issues with walkers, cyclists and any other vehicle that is not travling at the prevailing road/highway speed.

I used to be a cyclist, back before bike paths, bike lanes, compulsory helmets and the current alternative greenie bike culture.
I mixed it elbow to door handle with cars trucks and busses in city traffic and on ocasion on the open road.

Firts lets debunk the myth that roads were originally for foot, cart, horses or bike trafic.

In this country, most of the highways and roads did not exist before the motor vehicle.
Most highways and other 100KPH roads were built with no consideration for non high speed motor vehicle traffic.

Now this thread is not talking about a kid riding his bike to school, we are talking about long distance touring on open higways.

We have a growing attitude from the anti automotive minority, cyclists in particular, pushing their "rights" to the road and sprouting road rules to support their case.

Frankly most motorists think cyclists and walkers don't belong on the road, but worse there is a monority that are far more agressive than that, there are idiots that will intentionaly try to run you off the road...BECAUSE..they don't believe you belong there.

There was a high level athlete killed down the coast a few years ago, they think he was intentionaly run off the road...never proven or got any further.

Sorry cyclists, sorry walkers...GET OFF THE HIGHWAY OR DIE.

Regardles of the intentents of the motorist or the trucky, you are doing an incredibly dangerous thing traveling at very low speeds on high speed roads and highways, that were not designed to accomodate you.

In most of our suburban freeways and innercity expressways, cyclists and pedestrians ( and other slow stuff) are specificaly prohibited.....it is my belief that this should extend to all highway roads and other roads above 80Kph speed limits.

It is an issue of incompatable speeds.........where ever there is a large vehicle traveling at 100Kph (or similar) and there is another vehicle or person traveling at a very much slower speed and there is inadequate seperation........a very dangerous situation exists.......and nothing will adequately change that.

Now the standard lane width in Australia is 3 meters, the maximum permisable registered vehicle width is 2.5 meters, this does not include mirrors.
There are many vehicles on our road that push the envelope on the 2.5 meter limit, in particular busses & coaches, carvans, boats and of course trucks.

that leaves 250mm ( 10 inches) ( the width of a bike helmet) each side if the vehicle.

I drive a short wheel base, heavy rigid tipper, mostly arround town, let me tell you it requires my full attention to keep that vehicle centred within the lane.
A driver with a much longer articulated combination or a multi-combination is working much harder to do the same.

Look at how any of the heavy combinations track on less than ideal highway and you will see that while the prime-mover may be centered in the lane the back of even the first trailer is using all the lane..get to the back of a b double or worse the back of a road train and that whole 3 meters is definitely all used up.

Yes there may be a sealed or unsealed shoulder, that is not intended for pedestrians or cyclists, that is there as a safety margin, and heavy vehicles will encrouch on to that on every highway every day for one reason or the other.

Now consider you have two heavy combinations approaching each other on a typical two lane undivided highway, as is so common in this country, at 100Kph.

Their main priority is to not hit each other, because that would mean certain death for both drivers, and the wreck could take out a half a dozen other vehicles possibly killing many people in the process.


So we have a cyclist, pushing their luck riding along the sealed verge..sorry mate you are out of luck.........The truckie may not even know that he hit you.
AND when it comes down to it, its you or him...AND his mate comming the other way.

Because of the above incompatabilities, there have been a string of fatalities and serious injuries.......A series of on road accidents has dogged our olympic cycling team and the triathlon/ironman community.

Sorry but if you think you can raise funds, by creating a dangerous situation......you wont be getting any funds from me.

NOW to off the highway, people walking along 4wd tracks is becomming a real problem.

My wife is a serious walker, she has walked the UK end to end, up down and sideways, and has done a few walks here and in NZ.

Unlike overseas there is no pre-existing, constitutoinaly enshrined nationwide walking system, so people often try to walk on the roads......in a country with an over whelming automotive culture, on roads that where never walking tracks.

I am surprised that we have not seen fatalities, Fraser island bristles with 4wd's all year round, many of the drivers inexperienced....so they come arround a corner at a respectable speed ( keeping up momentum on the sand) and there is a walker straight in front of em.....

Sorry but you can bleat about your rights and the road rules all you like, but the unpleasant reality is just that, and nothing will change it.

cheers