HJ60 power inverter issues

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 19, 2012 at 21:54

ThreadID: 91970 Views:1950 Replies:6 FollowUps:4

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Naveed Merchant

I have HJ60 1986 with 2H deisel engine. Whenever i put any power invertor on my lighter which converts 12 to 220v my invertor starts bleeping and then stops charging if if the vehicle is kept on. It works fine in my other newer cars.

I am confused and unable to fix this.

Any advice or solution on this would be appreciated.

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Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Sunday, Feb 19, 2012 at 23:37

Sunday, Feb 19, 2012 at 23:37

Had the same problem with my old HJ75. Power inverter running from the cig lighter would beep and not work. It means it is not getting enough power through the cig lighter.

For inverters you are better to run a heavy duty wire straight from the battery. Something like 6mm2 wire and as short as possible. Too much current drop when the lead is too long.

If you check the wire going to the cig lighter it is tiny and only meant for occasional use not for long term use. You can also blow up fridges when running from the cig lighter as they try to draw more power than is available in that tiny wire and the fridge burns out from under current.

Cheers

Serendipity

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AnswerID: 478177

Reply By: Ross M - Sunday, Feb 19, 2012 at 23:45

Sunday, Feb 19, 2012 at 23:45

Obviously it is not blowing the fuse otherwise it would be dead/inactive.

The reason the beep happens and the invertor stops is the connection at the cig plus is possibly dirty at the connection face and under the reasonable load it won't pass sufficient current and the voltage to the invertor drops below it's threshold voltage.
If it is not dirty then the wiring to the cig socket in the dash is acting as a resistor and again it is reducing the voltage to the invertor because of it's amp draw.
I owned a 60 series and the cig plug wouldn't run much at all.
Best to operate a cig plug based invertor from a dedicated socket which is supplied from a battery supplied relay which is switched on either by a manual switch or activated when key is on.
Even then it is limited in its performance.

Remember! The 240v amp load of the appliance the invertor runs means a factor of more than 20 times is drawn from your battery to achieve this.

Example. 1 amp 240w is 240 watts but with invertor losses the dc supply line to the invertor is more than 20 amps.
Therefore only plug packs and camera chargers are really in the realm of a cig plug supply.

AnswerID: 478178

Follow Up By: Naveed Merchant - Monday, Feb 20, 2012 at 00:00

Monday, Feb 20, 2012 at 00:00

Interestingly when i plug in my Engel fridge it works well (but unsure whats happening inside the fridge incase if its slowly damaging it). but for now i cant even charge the camera and nor even operate or charge laptop.

I will try getting direct connection from battery.

Is there a way to ramp up the power, i had heard about dual battery systems, or do i need a powerful alternator?

FollowupID: 753672

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Monday, Feb 20, 2012 at 05:15

Monday, Feb 20, 2012 at 05:15

I would say Ross M is spot on the money.

Try it direct or use thicker wiring. The fridge will draw about 5A max. However the inverter could easily draw 10, 20 A or more. Even with say a laptop.

If you intent to use the inverter for any period when not going, then a second battery will be a must. They eat amphours like crazy.

Tony

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FollowupID: 753673

Follow Up By: Ross M - Monday, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:17

Monday, Feb 20, 2012 at 10:17

G'day Naveed M
If you intend to charge and use a Laptop it is better to use a 12 convertor for Laptops.
This device availabe from Jaycar and Auto stores converts 12v dc to around 19v dc as is used in most Laptops. This means only one conversion of dc power to the desired dc voltage.
If you intend to use the Laptop long term the use of an invertor changes 12v DC to AC then supplies the Laptop power supply with 240V AC. The Laptop supply then Inverts it again down to a lower voltage from the 240V AC to 19v DC.
It looks like this: 12V DC - 240v AC 240v AC - 19v DC. This is causing more losses and if battery amp hours are at a premium then the double conversion will use much more.

While travelling if you have a GOOD supply to a suitably positioned invertor it can be used to power a battery charger to charge your batteries while driving. You get the losses but the battery charger will get the extra battery up to full charge unlike many dual battery systems. I say this because some people have and invertor and a multi stage battery charger already.

Be AWARE a 12v to 240vAC invertor is an innocent looking bit of kit but it can KILL if there is wrong wiring somewhere, be careful.

Incorrect or faulty connections means the score board reads:
Owner /operator nil v Invertor 1

Many modern devices have switchmode style internals to make these power conversions eg. 240vac to 12dc and they are designed for full wave AC not the modified crap wave as many 12 to 240 invertors are. Many Laptops and sensitive camera chargers will not start on the non sine wave power and can easily be destroyed.Check the use before going away and use FULL SINE WAVE invertor if possible. More efficient and kinder to the gear.

FollowupID: 753683

Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Monday, Feb 20, 2012 at 08:52

Monday, Feb 20, 2012 at 08:52

Best thing is to set up a direct wire from the battery.

You will not need a bigger alternator and you will be surprised how much more power you will get when directly connected.

A dual battery setup is always great for camping and stops you flattening your primary battery that you need to start the car.

Look at Sidewinder.com.au who is a business member on this site as he does a great dual battery setup and at real competitive price. I bought one off him years ago now and it works great.

Cheers

Serendipity

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AnswerID: 478185

Reply By: The Bantam - Monday, Feb 20, 2012 at 17:56

Monday, Feb 20, 2012 at 17:56

Here is the mathmatic reality with inverters and ciggy lighters.

The maximum a good ciggy lighter ( if there is such a thing) is designed to deliver is 15amps.......a poor one much less.

15 amps times 12 volts =180 watts..........ringin' wett, the wind at ya back and all things going your way.

By the time you get some inverter losses, and other stuff, the biggest inverter it is possible to run of the best ciggy socket with any reliability is a 150 VA inverter.

Ciggy sockets are dodgy at the best of times and where never designed with the primary intent of bieng a power supply socket.

a typical small 12 volt fridge will draw about 3.5 amps..that is a hell of a lot less than the pissiest inverter you can buy.

cheers

AnswerID: 478230

Follow Up By: Naveed Merchant - Sunday, Mar 11, 2012 at 16:07

Sunday, Mar 11, 2012 at 16:07

I was thinking of opting for a much cheaper solution....

Put another identical rating battery in parallel in Engine bay. This way i can have 12 V with double rating amps.

The only issue will be alternator which on most SUV's is strong enough to charge both batteries when engine is running.

Is there a way to have manual hand system with a meter on board on dashboard which enables to connect the 2nd battery to alternator once the primary battery is fully charged and then disconnect by a hand switch system once 2nd battery gets fully charged

FollowupID: 755603