Cargo barriers, how versatile are they?

Gday...

I lost one of my best mates when he was driving his 60series Landcruiser on a bush road and a trailbike came around the bend toward us a bit too fast. I was driving behind him and saw it all.

My mate hit brakes, moved as far left as he dared and the 60series stopped right on the edge. The edge suddenly broke away and he slipped down the hill, only about 15metres.

The Cruiser fell onto its side, sliding down the hill, hardly denting panels - but the loose chainsaw he had in the rear 'storage' compartment (no cargo barrier) came forward and hit him in the back of the head. By the time we got him out and to hospital he died.

A cargo barrier certainly is a wise investment if ya do off-road work. Ya can't put it all in drawers and occy straps etc just don't cut the mustard.

Cheers - John

I am sorry to hear your story, but still advocating good drawing system versus cargo barrier. I have one and very happy - all heavy/dangerous goods (certainly chainsaw included) tossed away and no way can fly, while stuff like sleeping bags and closes sitting on top and make no danger. I am not saying that heavy items should not be secured - I just fail to see any practical usability in cargo barriers.

" For any serious person that goes away and takes things seriously, then a rated Cargo barrier is an absolute must."

ABSOLUTE UTTER rubbish!!! I make a trip from Melbourne to Kakady/Letchfield and back a year and half ago and have nowhere near as much rubbish as shown on picture. I have draw system on the back that extends to front in form of platform (read seats removed) that both of us can sleep on. All our needs been tossed in draws and under platform. I even can use internal mirror! I have absolutely everything what I need for comfy cruising - nice mattresses and pillows, two very cosy chairs, freezer and esky that acted as fridge, all sets of recovery gear, all tools and all spares INCLUDING necessarily oil change during trip. If you pack like this for two (including roof rack), that you do not know what you doing and no cargo barrier can save you.

KSV

I am dumb-founded at your comments. There is nothing else that can be said other than ..... anyone considering traveling with you should either be wearing a full-face helmet or have a very good health insurance policy.

Capt.

"Capt. Wrongway posted:
KSV

I am dumb-founded at your comments. There is nothing else that can be said other than ..... anyone considering traveling with you should either be wearing a full-face helmet or have a very good health insurance policy.

Capt."

Or perhaps they should use brain instead of repeating advertisement mantra. But relax - I do not accept anyone who cannot use brain on my trips. They welcome to use tag-along instead.
YMMV and I am perfectly fine with that.

Hi Stephen,

I totally agree with your comments. I too fit a cargo barrier as the first safety item to all my 4WD's. Anyone who thinks otherwise, well... they are entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it is!

Cheers

Captain

I am the same. I do not feel comfortable with heavy stuff in the back without the barrier, as at times I carry a couple of heavy toolboxes which would give me a headache if I stopped in a hurry or had an accident.
Each to their own opinions with their own values.

KSV

Firstly a couple of points to clear up.

"If you pack like this for two (including roof rack), that you do not know what you doing and no cargo barrier can save you."

I think that you need some glasses, as I do not have a pack rack on my roof. What I actually have is a set of 2 cross bars and all that I have on that is my awning, my MaxTrax and tent, so no heavy weight and items that are used.

Secondly, travelling up the Stuart Highway from Melbourne to the Top End is no real big remote trip (I am not saying that in a sarcastic way, as it is a great drive), as you have fuel and food stops at very regular stops and no more than a couple of hours apart.

Me on the other hand go where I will not see other vehicles, no fuel or food stops for days on end and on one trip it was over 1300 kilometres from our last fuel stop (not food) and 10 days travelling. So as you can see I do not have the luxury of regular supplies and services and therefore I have to be completely surfactant including water for up to two weeks at a time. Everything is packed into its place for easy access and I can assure you that we have no spare space. Imagine the thermo that you see in the photo hitting you in the back of the head at 100 kilometres per hour? It will not happen to me as it is safe behind the barrier.

You only have to do your research to see that a Rated Cargo Barrier have saved lives and than there have been cases where even a small can of soft drink or battle of water have become lethal misfiles and taken peoples lives in accidents that none of us can predict.

I travel with the aim of making my trip as safe as I can possibly make it and if you feel you are safe without a barrier, that is you call and not mine.


Stephen

Courses for horses. You love it then use it. Just do not tell me that this is ONLY option.

1. I actually have glasses, even 3 pairs and I can see that you was not be able to fit everything inside and put it on top. I actually tried all 3 pairs - result was the same. I only can contribute it to cargo barrier. Sure you make COG higher that pose more risk of rollover. Hence you need barrier. Thing that protect you from it being installed. Cool.
2. From Melbourne to Kakadu and back we traveled 3 weeks and restock our suppliers (veggies, fresh and frozen) only once in Alice Springs. Also I took Oondata track from Port Augusta to Coober Peddy - my dear like to see Lake Erie. From Urulu to Alice Spring we took back road - love to see Western McDonnell Rangers. And we drove Lichfield from south to north on 4WD track as well. Also I have 260l of diesel on board and can do quite a bit of driving without refueling.
3. Few years ago I crossed Simpson with similar setup, but we slept outside - I have not finished my platform at that time. Then we have even less cargo - I liked to travel light. Removed back seat and all my goodies was pretty well below window level - about 120L of water, full set of oil and coolant, all imaginable spares and tools, full set of recovery gear. Only things missed then was fridge.

I travel alone and travel a lot and you cannot convince me that I need that much rubbish to enjoy outback. Neither that I need stupid cargo barrier.

Though of course YMMV.

Thankfully KSV, the vast majority of members here disagree with you.
If you choose to go down your route fine but don't try and sway new members who are making important decisions regarding their own and their families safety.
As for your comments about the "morons" drilling holes to install the cargo barrier and particularly if it was a Milford cargo barrier, then that is what MUST be done.
You are not allowed to use seat belt mountings or hand grip mounting holes to meet Aus standards so their mounting system is the "approved" means of attachment.
The vast majority of government agencies and certainly all the mining sectors install cargo barriers to meet OH&S requirements.
I will always fit a cargo barrier as the 1st modification to my car and thankfully most of the posters on this thread seem to agree.
The pics and testimonials below should give some newbies who may be thinking "do we need?" something to think about.
Regards Andrew.

Best $400 ever spent

Another reason for a cargo barrier

"As for your comments about the "morons" drilling holes to install the cargo barrier and particularly if it was a Milford cargo barrier, then that is what MUST be done."

Your guessed it right - it was them. I sick of this "professi-anals" - there are plenty of drilled and taped holes on body of my cruised that could be used for cargo-barrier installation. Bit those morons (I vigorously insist in my definition) prefer bastardize body (weakening it and make it more prone for rust) and use universal attachment instead of design dedicated mounting for each and every vehicle.

If you right and this is only "correct" way, then I will be steering away from barriers like from plague to end of my life! I have installed fully comprehensive drawing system om the back without drilling any holes in body (though, admittedly, it was not trivial)

BTW similar "professi-anals" morons converted my aircon to "environmentally safer" gas. Bet they did it used "approved" method. One day it stop working. I have to disassemble everything to fix it. Cause of the problem - the morons replaces gas, but never bothered to replace valve inside evaporator (of course! way tooooooo much to do for the morons!) - it was still original one designed for R22 and no wonder eventually fail. Effectively they regas system without any idea that thermodynamic properties on new gas somewhat differ and without any consideration that system been design with particular gas in mind.

As to "lead novice in wrong direction". Mind you it is wrong direction by YOUR definition, not mine. I used it (the barrier) - heck! initially I was very happy to have something "for free"!, dislike it and ditch it in favor of other solutions that I believe are far better and more versatile. You used it, like it and pretty happy do not search for anything else. BOTH POV is equally valid - lets readers to decide by themselves what they like.

As usual - YMMV.

Hi Andrew and Stephen,

Some people are always right, no matter how wrong they are!

Yes, cargo barriers can be a tad inconvinient at times, but then so can being paralyised or even dead. To carry that much gear in the back, well its obvious who has ever had the misfortune to see an accident first hand.

Some people even think smoking causes no health effects and its a conspiricay by the medical fraternity! Hopefully new members can see the light about how a 4WD and its cargo should be packed.

Hopefully Darwin Theory doesn't take its natural path...

Cheers

Captain

Captain,

Just think what is more dangerous in case of rollover - unsecured hammer on back or trailer that weigh as much as car attached pretty damn well by 4WD hinge? But somehow you reckon last "acceptable" while former "deadly". I am NOT advocate to have unsecured item on back (especially heavy and dangerous one). Instead I saying that there are other alternatives to secure them. You believe that barrier ONLY solution? It is fine by me that it is ONLY solution for YOU. But why you imply that this is ONLY solution for EVERYONE else?

KSV

Stupid is as Stupid does!

Some people advocate that the definition of Insanity is repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.

Do you really think your replies are going to result in a different outcome I.e. getting reasonable people to agree with you?

I rest my case!

But I can't wait for your reply 'cause it is FRIDAY FUNNIES DAY!

Cheers

Anthony

I gave up reading all this crap halfway through because of the attitude that is so common on here of "I do it this way, so if you do it different your an idiot! or this suits my needs. so it should suit you too!"

If someone needs a cargo barrier to secure there gear well good on them and if the next bloke doesnt well good on him to. If someone likes to take a lot of gear with them , thats great, but if someone likes to travell light thats their decission.

Why not give the poster the good and bad sides of both, explain why it suits you or doesnt, rather a bloody sermon on your rules of 4wding and trowing insults between each other!

As for the record I drove around remote areas for 20 years without a cargo barrier........why? Because I didnt need one.
Then I fitted a cargo barrier.....why? My needs changed and thought it was a safer option for ME........

Geeeezzzzz........settle people

"Hairy (NT) posted:
I gave up reading all this crap halfway through because of the attitude that is so common on here of "I do it this way, so if you do it different your an idiot! or this suits my needs. so it should suit you too!"

If someone needs a cargo barrier to secure there gear well good on them and if the next bloke doesnt well good on him to. If someone likes to take a lot of gear with them , thats great, but if someone likes to travell light thats their decission.

Why not give the poster the good and bad sides of both, explain why it suits you or doesnt, rather a bloody sermon on your rules of 4wding and trowing insults between each other!

As for the record I drove around remote areas for 20 years without a cargo barrier........why? Because I didnt need one.
Then I fitted a cargo barrier.....why? My needs changed and thought it was a safer option for ME........

Geeeezzzzz........settle people"


This is what I continuously make point on - some suit one people while others find another way. I agree that some may need (or think that they need, does not matter really) or simply like certain things while other just doing it different way. Both approaches are equally correct and lets person who asked question listen to different opinions and make his own decision. But somehow percentage of tolerant people on this forum who can think outside square is not that high.

Hi Hairy,

I too usually try and refrain from posting in these types of posts, but KSV's original comment of "...useless piece of junk..." in his first post (at top of OP) certainly is not the balanced comment or even remotely correct!

While people are welcome to their own opinions, to advise a new-commer that they are "useless" is simply wrong - not just my opinion but just about every OH&S expert, Government body, experienced 4WDriver and Commercial Organisation also agrees.

I too didn't fit a cargo barrier to my very first (or second) 4WD, but have done so for the past ~20 years. Why, because I now know their value and have learnt from experience what a true safety item they are.

IMHO, this forum is about helping people gain experience without having to have the sometimes bitter lesson associated with gaining that experience. I have done many, many things wrong in my 4WD "career" and have learnt one hell of a lot along the way. And things I used to thing were OK, acceptable or even the right way have changed over time.

Just because someone does it dfferent doesn't necessarily make it right, or wrong. But sometimes there is truly a safer way, as even you have stated. Yes, one can get away without one - like I did for some time, same as some don't believe in insurance. But its Russian Roulette your playing, but this time with someone else's life!

Vehicle safety has moved leaps and bounds in the last ~20 years. ABS brakes, airbags, stability control etc... all things I never had, nor thought I needed, as I had learnt old school and "knew" how to do it better! But then a situation crops up and suddenly one realises the value of these safety aids and changes their opinion.

Yes, people are certainly entitled to their opinions, but to promote a knowingly unsafe way, well..., thats perhaps as much about stubborness and trying to defend the indefencible, not showing a safer alternative.

Rant over.

Cheers

Captain

Gday Captain,
I agree 100% with what your saying about the safety aspects of cargo barriers and I dont think anyone would disagree with the fact that they strengthen your vehicle.........but so would a roll cage. So would that make us stupid if we dont all fit a roll cage? Some vehicles are already stronger than others so to say they all should have one is not a consistant argument in my veiw anyway.

Anyway Im to busy to get into an argument and I dont think the comment of "...useless piece of junk..." was really ment as a word of advice but rather a personal opinion..........

If you think you need to strenghten your vehicle or cant secure your load without one , they are probably a accessorie........if you dont and all they do is get in your way, well.......one may consider them a "useless piece of junk" I suppose.
Each to their own I reckon.
I just dont like the way people get criticized on here for not following the guide to camping and 4wd manual.. LOL

Cheers

Here is an example of a barrier. This is a backboard on the tray of a new cruiser that was 3 weeks old.

Cruisers are noted for the strength of their chassis. The vertical load on the backboard broke the chassis and the cab is still intact.

Luckily the operator stopped at this point when he realised all was not right.

It is a great example of protection.



RA.

"Member - Captain (WA) posted:
but KSV's original comment of "...useless piece of junk...""

Captain, please do not twist my words. I actually said "My thoughts are very simple - useless piece of junk." It is MY opinion and YOURS can be different. If MY opinion does not match with ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE ones it still means nothing - my style of 4WDing may well be different from everyone else and concluding that I am unsafe and reckless 4WDer just on fact that cargo barrier does not suit MY style is plainly silly.

And as for safety as first and foremost - you have not replayed on my comment regarding safety of towing heavy trailer (you have one on your avatar!) in conjunction with potential roll-over or even sudden brake. In my books it is far more dangerous then having unsecured fridge on the back, yet plenty of people doing this.

Back to original comment - sure some tradie could found it very useful because he does not have enough time to pack his goodies each and every time. Some dog owners may found it indispensable. But for me when I have efficient draw system and load below windows level it just that - useless piece of junk. I feel pity that I have this installation - it damage body of my car and did nothing useful for me, thanks goodness I did not paid for it . Heck, I cannot use it by definition if I sleeping in the car, and this is exactly what I do.

But again (and I put this almost after every post!) - YMMV and I am fine with that.

Cheers.

How did I possibly twist your words? A direct quote and in context! You are clearly happy with your method of packing and good luck to you - you might need it!!!

As for your deflection to towing when this thread is about cargo barriers, thats just trying to confuse the issue. If your happy with your method of packing below window height, one that clearly goes against virtually every industry standard, thats your preogative. But to promote it as safe/safer than a cargo barrier, well thats simply head in the sand stuff. We never used to have seat belts in cars either, but people wisened up and now one wouldn't consider touring in a vehicle without one on.

Enough said on this subject by me, you know your opinion and I know mine. No amount of debate seems to be able to change either one of them.

Cheers

Captian

"Member - Captain (WA) posted:
How did I possibly twist your words? A direct quote and in context! You are clearly happy with your method of packing and good luck to you - you might need it!!!"

Mate, you did - you did not include vital preamble! OK perhaps better way would be "you used my words out of consent"

As for trailer. VERY RELEVANT. It is relevant in area that called "Risk Management". Person who tow should not worry at all about cargo barrier as roll over protection - he have FAR more problem on back in case of roll over or sudden brake.

If you can get an idea, but dislike to accept it as "relevant" then discussion is over - nothi9ng to discuss if opponents cannot agree on fundamentals.

If you cannot grasp an idea, then well, discussion is over either.

Cheers.

Hi OzTroopy

What are you on about " and a gold star to everyone who mentioned fitting issues ....."

Providing that you have the correct Barrier intended and designed for your vehicle, there will be no fitting issues.

Like I have mentioned above, to meet ADR requirements, they are engineered to be fitted at the points recommended by the manufacturer for the maximum strength and safety that they are designed for.

You will find that those that have trouble are the ones that have obtained a barrier (in most cases second hand or home made jobs) not designed for their vehicle and try to fit it to where it was never designed to be fitted. If they are not capable of fitting it themselves, then they should pay the extra and have it professionally installed for complete piece of mind.

To me, it is very clear from this post that those people that have safety in mind and have fitted them are very happy that they have done so.

At the end of the day, we each have different point of views and it is only in the event of an accident that your own personal safety issues will be displayed. Anything that we can do to keep items secure and safe from personal body injury is money well spent.


Keep Safe.


Cheers


Stephen

...actually I don't think anyone answered the question, which was "how similar (read "versatile") are cargo barriers across the same model but for different years" i.e. will a cargo barrier from a 1998 Pajero fit in a 2004 model?

What’s the answer - Yes or No? No one has answered this question – there is no prize winner (though maybe Bazooka wins "best advice (so far)" award).

The fact that one person purchased a second hand car that came with a cargo barrier and they subsequently established it didn’t suit their needs doesn’t answer the question at all (irrespective of the number of “unnecessary” holes drilled:)

I think some people (who were actually trying to answer the OP's question) have confused the use of the word “versatile” in this instance with how “useful” are cargo barriers when the question was actually how “interchangeable” are they across one model of car (in this case a Pajero) from different years.

Cheers
Greg

PS: Going back OT, I have a cargo barrier and it’s great – can remove it in 5 minutes if I find it unsuitable for situation at hand and like S L I have draws as well – best of both worlds!! I have two childerbeasts so without it there is little capacity to store gear in the back of the car efficiently and more importantly safely...not everything fits in the draws e.g. Engel :)

The simple answer is NO they are not interchangeable if you want your Milford barrier modified to go from one vehicle type to another.
For instance I could have bought a cheap cargo barrier from an NM/NP Pajero which is kinked at the top to give more room in the cargo area but my NS comes with side airbags and for compliance the cargo barrier is straight not kinked to give the airbags adequate clearance.
I went for the airbag safe model.
If however someone decides to go and fit it anyway the onus is on them.
The below quotes are direct from the Milford FAQ site and are pretty clear.
The 3rd question is particularly pertinent regarding using existing mounting points.
Regards Andrew.

Question: “What about if I wish to modify or install a secondhand cargo barrier?”

Answer: “The cargo barrier is designed and tested under strict compliance and high impact conditions, therefore in order to maintain the desired performance of the Cargo Barrier, strict adherence to the recommendations of the Australian Standard and our installation instructions is essential. Under no condition do we recommend modification of the product or the use of alternative anchorage points — to do so will void the warranty & rated capacity.
Where a Cargo Barrier is modified or a secondhand barrier which is damaged or has an unknown history is fitted, then the rated capacity plaque must be removed and replaced with a non-rated capacity tag by the installer. Failure to remove the rating plaque in these circumstances will result in the product liability transferring from the manufacturer to the retailer / installer of the product.

Question: “How should a Cargo Barrier be installed?”

Answer: “We recommend that a Cargo Barrier is only installed by a suitably qualified person, Milford provide detailed and complete fitting instructions and conduct training sessions to ensure the best possible installation. All installation components necessary to suit the vehicle model for which the Cargo Barrier is intended must be fully engineered and tested - Milford work closely with car manufacturers to provide the best possible mounting solution.”

Question: "Can I use some of the existing captive nuts already in the vehicle to install your Cargo Barrier?"

Answer: In most cases an aftermarket mounting plate kit is required to safely mount our Cargo Barrier into position. There are some late model vehicles that have been manufactured to incorporate the Cargo Barrier mounts into the vehicle's body structure. Unless existing captive nuts or mounts have been specially designed and tested to withstand the necessary energy levels required to hold back the load and Cargo Barrier in the event of a collision, we recommend that you do not use any other captive nuts or mounts located in the vehicle.

At last!!

What took you so long ? :)

Cheers
Greg

sighhhhhhhh .... I shoulda just stuck with having a look at the Sunday History thread and buggered off again I suppose ....


"Fitting Issues" .... Is not MYMYTPAJ considering fitting a 98 Paj cargo barrier in a 2004 Paj ??

... and you should see the "fitting issues" my "professionally" fitted, name brand, cargo barrier has ... One would think that the over inflated price demanded for a lump of thin wall 3/4" rhs and chook mesh would include some care and attention by the installer - in regard to the damage caused to the vehicle.





.... and The Explorer probably has it right ... Perhaps the thread title, should have been ... How Compatible are Cargo Barriers ... rather than how versatile.

Hi Boys

It has been a good thread and there have been some very good questions raised.

OzTroopy you know that I was not having a go at you and I realise that I have gone away from the original question asked, and like Greg has just said, I think we have overlooked the original question and the true meaning. Thanks for awill4x4 for giving the correct information.

The great thing about this forum is the usually in the end, there is a correct answer.


Cheers to Alll


Stephen

Hi Off track,

Sorry, my mistake. I should have meant what you have just stated, and that they must comply with the Australian and New Zealand Standards.


Cheers


Stephen

"The OP asked about their interchangeability, not their worthiness."

OP key word was "versatile" and I am sorry, I still hold my negative opinion on this.

I am glad that you honestly said that you personally do not use barriers.

If it make you happier, please call me troll.

Cheers

PS. Risk Management (read above) still relevant

So, I'm guessing KSV isn't a fan of cargo barriers.....

Love mine myself and he can stick his stuff where ever he wants, as far as I'm concerned.

This thread has used up an amazing amount of cyber space. Truly amazing.

Steve

MYMYTPAJ I guess the question you should of asked was Does a cargo barrier from model A fit in to model B, asking this question you may have saved a bleep e load of cyber space.

Asking if they are versatile, well that opened up a different can of worms didn't it, as from Wiktionary.

Adjective

versatile (comparative more versatile, superlative most versatile)

Capable of doing many things competently.
Having varied uses or many functions.
Changeable or inconstant.
(biology) Capable of moving freely in all directions. [quotations ?]

This is your answer, a cargo barrier by definition is not versatile, as I only has one function and that is to stop stuff in the back of the car entering the front, nothing more nothing less.

Just for the record and like KSV I don't use a cargo barrier in my vehicles as the would not be suitible for purpous and get in the way.