Can a winch be run from a Deep Cycle <span class="highlight">battery</span>.

Submitted: Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 16:25
ThreadID: 139688 Views:12803 Replies:9 FollowUps:8
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This is a hypothetical at this stage and the simple question is can a 12v winch be run from a deep cycle battery - haven't determined the type of AGM at this stage. Can we stay on topic as discussions do get off track on this forum.

The vehicle is 24v (petrol) and I have a 60amp 24v to 12v DC smart charger charging a single 12v battery which runs fridges etc but also the ignition system. The current lead acid battery is old and needs replacing and I will go a deep cycle (not decided on type) but definitely not lithium.

I have a 12v winch (12,000lbs) that is not fitted but am thinking about it so if I proceed I need to sort out power for it.

So back to the question - can I run the winch from the aux battery and what will happen to it if I do. I do appreciate deep cycles are about providing long periods of low level current and not short bursts of high level current but I have not found anywhere that explains what happens to a deep cycle that has high current draw.

Thanks
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Reply By: qldcamper - Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 16:47

Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 16:47
Yes, if you fit one or preferably 2 deep cycle/starting batteries such as yellow top optima or equivalent it should by ok.
Long periods of hi draw will knock any battery around even cranking batteries dont like it. Will shorten their over all life but shouldnt destroy them instantly.
The 60 amp charger will supply a good deal of the supply.
Would love you to start another thread to discuss your 12 volt ignition system on a 24 volt vehicle and how it come about.
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Follow Up By: OzzieCruiser - Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 17:03

Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 17:03
Thanks for that information - yes was thinking yellow tops but been hearing some not so good reports on them lately but they did seem to be the pick.

The old 24v ignition was twin points, no vacuum advance and I decided to put in a modern 12v electronic ignition and 12v coil - simple 24v relay that fed 12v from the aux 12v battery to the ignition when the ignition switch was turned on.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: qldcamper - Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 17:20

Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 17:20
The yellow top was as a referance to type but most brands have an equivalent .
We run yellow tops where we work as starting batteries on terex unit rig dump trucks in very hot conditions and considering the amount there are, up to 8 in each truck, and over 30 trucks,there are suprisingly few failures between schedule change outs.
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Reply By: Sigmund - Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 17:05

Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 17:05
One retailer I deal with says they sell hybrid cranking deep cycle batteries.
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Reply By: Frank P (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 17:45

Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 17:45
You should choose a battery that can do both tasks. Others have recommended Yellow Top but I have no experience with those.

In my long gone Prado I used to do what you plan to do.

I had two Supercharge Allrounders which are flooded combined crank/deep cycle batteries. One was a cranker, the other the auxiliary battery for the fridge, etc.

For winching I had a cabling setup where I could parallel them and winch off both. It worked well and didn't seem to harm the batteries.
FrankP

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Reply By: HKB Electronics - Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 18:42

Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 18:42
As long as the battery an handle the current not a problem.

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Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 18:52

Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 18:52
I use a single, "ordinary" 125Ah AGM to crank the 4L OKA. It does it well.
Just like continuing to crank when the motor refuses to start, a cranking battery will eventually run out of "oomph" and you will need to give it a rest. After the rest, it will crank again for 30 seconds or so.
This "running out of oomph" is simply a sign that the chemical reaction required to make the electricity can not keep up with the demand you are putting on it and the voltage drops to a point where it can not do the job asked any more. Waiting will allow it to catch up and then you can have another go.

All batteries exhibit this to some greater or lesser degree. It does them no harm.
Batteries designed primarily for cycling will have less plates (and thicker) than batteries designed primarily for cranking which have more (and thinner) plates. Less area of plates means the chemical reaction will be slower and you run out of oomph sooner. This has no effect on the total storage left in the battery. Running out of oomph does not mean the battery is flat, it's just tired and needing a rest.

And so it will be for winching.
The total current required for winching is closely related to the pull required and its pull speed. It is low at low pulls and gets higher as the winch approaches stall.
My Warn 16.5Ti (16,500lb) winch draws about 600A at stall. Cranking a diesel engine might be 400A or more. A smaller winch would typically be less.

When winching the OKA, I will typically offer as much electrical power to it as I can. I do this by locking the house batteries to the crank batteries (via a 200A solenoid) and by keeping the alternator running at a high idling speed engine and there might be up to 30A of solar helping too. I can plug the winch supply cable into the house batteries (at the rear) or into the crank batteries (at the front).

Long story short. Yes you can winch from an AGM. If the winch starts to struggle, give it a rest for a few minutes so the battery can catch up and have another go.
Cheers,
Peter
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Follow Up By: mountainman - Wednesday, Feb 19, 2020 at 21:05

Wednesday, Feb 19, 2020 at 21:05
Hey Peter
Wondering if i could get some info in owning an oka out of you
If thats ok
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Reply By: OzzieCruiser - Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 20:16

Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 20:16
Thanks for all the replies - consensus is great :-)

I will work out what the winch draws and make sure the battery I end up has a CCA that covers it and an Ah rating to cover the fridge etc.
AnswerID: 630090

Reply By: RMD - Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 22:49

Sunday, Feb 16, 2020 at 22:49
Ozziecruiser
You didn't mention the 24v alternator and the starting batteries. Yes a 60 amp DCDC will charge a 12v battery, but if winching from just one and maybe even two 12v batteries, how is the 60 amp DCDC going to keep up? Once the 12v battery/ies go flat with winching, although the DCDC is hammering as hard as it can it will heat up quickly and self limit it's output which will lengthen the recharge time of the winch battery/ies. There will be no relief for the DCDC to cool to run normally. Also if the voltage of those batteries goes down sufficiently then the Electronic ignition probably will stop until it's supply battery is charged up enough. If the ignition stops then no engine running to charge the 24v starters or the DCDC and it's 12v recipient. I would do a check to see what voltage the ignition unit will operate down to so you can gauge the likelihood of suddenly being in the poo. The only way then with engine disabled would be to have the 24v batteries to continue running the DCDC so it can bring up the 12v ignition side. Winching would have ended long before this. I would bracket a decent 12v alternator onto the engine so you can bring it into drive belt contact when required to actually do the charging for the winch. If in a spot you may require such ability. My HJ61 winch certainly depleted the batteries, two of them fairly quickly and the 100 + amp alt worked hard to bring all back again. Diesel, no ignition involved.
Just an alternative viewpoint if serious winching.
AnswerID: 630093

Follow Up By: HKB Electronics - Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 09:45

Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 09:45
Most winch setups are across the cranking battery, so if you flatten the winch battery you can't start the car anyway unless you have another battery.

Many using winches have alternators around the 100A output, you only get 100A with the alternator at max output and this is not going to occur at idle when most winching is done as the alternator can only produce around 60% of its max output at idle. In the case of a 100A alternator allowing around 30A to run the vehicles electrics it only leaves another 70A with the alternator at flat chat, not much difference to the charger. With the alternator at idle probably around 30A.

Race the engine you say, hot under bonnet temperature with motor racing means little cooling air for the alternator, old type alternators without temperature compensation could overload and burn out, newer alternators will heat up and reduce their output to protect themselves so even less current becomes available for winching.

How you set it up is up to the individual, personally I have the winch connected to the aux, the aux is charged via an isolator that has overload protection built into it, it also isolates the aux from the main during wincing to prevent the winch draining the cranker. Not much point having a winch if can't start the motor anyway.

The OP setup is interesting, depending on how the DCDC charger is setup it may continue to charge the ignition battery even if the engine is not running so may actually be a better setup than most use anyway.

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Reply By: Batt's - Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 06:15

Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 06:15
Personally for a dediated agm I would say only in an emergency stuation.

But for a general reliable set up though a cranking battery or dual purpose battery which gets their power supplied directly from the alternator only and not via a charger that is greatly limiting the power supply.

If your going to be serious about setting it up correctly for years of trouble free winching then get a 24v winch they cost around the same price as a 12v and wire it directly to the starter batteries. Then without being rude learn how to use the winch correctly and when it's time to use a snatchblock to aid in a recovery etc so you don't drain the batteres flat first time you use one then blame the winch or batteries.
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Follow Up By: Batt's - Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 09:50

Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 09:50
Something else I just remembered depending on what vehicle you have the older ones usually only had a small 60amp alternator so they quite often used a P.T.O. winch. So check your alternator size and be smart when winching use a snatch block when you can to reduce the load on the batteries. Also don't forget to idle the engine up at least over 1,000rpm when winching to get the alternator working and don't turn the vehicle off straight away after extended winching work.
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Reply By: Matthew G3 - Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 09:21

Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 09:21
I have 2 SSB 120amp batteries in my canopy for fridges but I can link to the start battery for starting and winching as they are also rated at 1000cc each.

Matt
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Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 11:12

Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 11:12
Matthew
Good batteries for starting but for the winch loads you would need welding size cable conductors to carry the winch drain over that distance. Most people think starters use heaps of current, they don't really and it is only for a short time anyway.Winches are double the current or more and constant.
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Follow Up By: Matthew G3 - Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 11:33

Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 11:33
RMD
Runva 9500lb max draw 380amp all connected through 00 cable. All within specs for length of run.
Matt
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Follow Up By: RMD - Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 12:11

Monday, Feb 17, 2020 at 12:11
Matthew
Good to see you have plenty of copper to the winch.
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