Petrol smell from Honda <span class="highlight">generator</span>

I can understand some smell with other petrol appliances but the Honda generator is designed as a portable 240v power supply for vans etc and I would expect this to be sealed for storage in a confined space such as a van or wagon. I am worried about the strong petrol fumes in the van boot that has my battery and charger. Thanks for the response.
John

I doubt you have a problem.

I did some OH&S work with a "sniffer" designed to detect dangerous gas levels. We had to poke the nozzle of the sniffer many inches into the fuel filler of a car before it was dangerous.

That is to say, the woft of petrol is far from being explosive. Much like gas, you'll smell it long before it is even remotely dangerous.

With the generator stored in the van boot, the petrol smell after a few hours is extremely strong and I need to open the boot lid at frquent intervals to dispel the fumes. While it may not be a serious problem with the battery & charger, the petrol smell gets into other equipment I have stored in the boot. I do not consider my nose to be super sensitive to petrol but I think the smell is excessive and my wife is very sensitive to the smell and I now have to leave the generator at home.

Rather than leaving the gennie at home, why not put a gennie box on the drawbar if you have room. Seen plenty of grey nomads do just that and it looks like a great idea.

I get the strong petrol smell even on very cold days ie <15C or overnight when stored at home. As I mentioned before, I even remove the fuel from the carby as the Honda dealer suggested this should stop the problem. I will be taking it back to the dealer to look at again but was trying to get feedback from others to see if my problem was experienced by others. Thanks to all who responded and I get the impression that there are some units that have this problem as well. The extra box on the drawbar sounds like a good idea if it does not get fixed but space may be a problem.
John

Hiya Ozzie

I hav an EU20i also and was under the impression its not good to constantly let the piston (all petrol,mowers,whipper snippers etc) run dry of fuel all the time ?????....
Heard it somewhere..

Greetings Warfer69 you are correct when it comes to 2 stroke motors .... when the fuel runs out the revs go higher or leans out - then with lack of fuel comes lack of lubrication ( pre mixed in the fuel ) - not to much of a prob if your a person who mixes a little rich but certainly not good for a 2 stroke motor -- 4 stroke is ok ....

on that Note -- NEVER EVER buy a display model 2 stroke ANYTHING mower brushcutter) none have had lubrication in cylinder ( or very little ) and people have a habit of "pulling the starter " to feel compression - after a few months( and 5000 pulls later) it totally destroys the cylinder and piston walls . when i was at Mc culloch - we would have them come back from Kmart -- NEVER been run nor had fuel in them - and look like they had been run on straight fuel when motor was pulled down


Hope this helps

Boc

G'day
The suggestion by Boc on being wary of display models is something I fully agree with .
but I also include the 4 strokes as they are shipped with no oil in sump and if on display without oil and the same give it a pull customers are looking , well ? not for me
in fact I just bought a Yamaha 1 kva last month and even though the best price was for the one on display shelf
I purchased one at a slightly higher quote but still sealed in the box
You also never know what else some ham fisted clown has managed to damage while pokeing about

Garry

Something else I learned - about electrical sources that can and will ignite those trapped flammable fumes.

Guy I know of set his boat alight at sea off Darwin with a under deck fuel spill, resulting in an 18 hours swim and long barefoot walk thru the crock infested and oyster encrusted mangroves back to Darwin to get help.

It was a small 16 ft center console with an underfloor tank.

One of the fuel hoses split with age & perishing and there was maybe a half cup full of fuel floating on top of normal bilge water.

He lifted the floor hatch, when he smelled petrol fumes, and saw some of the fuel floating on top of the water.

He did make a precautionary "mayday call" on his radio, but hadn't got round to giving his exact position (1st mistake) - just mentioning that he had small fuel spill underfloor and MIGHT be needing help if he couldn't deal with it and a ROUGH location - said he would call again when all was under control.

He was worried that the triggering of the radio & mike, might set off a spark to ignite the fuel, so only made that first radio call and kept it short with no ECACT location (Lats and Longs).

Then he got worried about any stray electrical sparks, that might start a fire so decided to disable the starting battery system etc by turning the Cole Hersey type isolator switch off.

That was his 2nd mistake that nearly cost him and his mate their lives & what created the spark that set it alight.

His thinking was right - a fuel tank leak COULD elevate the auto bilge switch level as tho it were water under deck increasing in depth and cause the bilge pump to auto float switch start or trigger a high water alarm.

Such bilge pumps are designed to pump water not petrol - the electrical engine within is NOT spark shielded in any way, and more than one bilge pump has blown up a boat with a leaking fuel tank below decks before today.

His problem was - he had the WRONG type of Cole Hersey isolator switch fitted to his boat, it was an automotive type NOT a marine type.

There is a difference?????

You bet there is and to this day on automotive and rec boating sites in Oz I've never seen this mentioned.

There are two type of these battery isolators, automotive and marine.

Heres the difference for those who don't know.

Automotive are whats called "make before you break" isolators, and Marine are whats called "BreaK Before You Make" isolators.

As all offroaders know, these multiple battery setups utilise these cole hersey type switches to connect and disconnect various arrangements of multiple batteries.

The "Make Before You Break" type are set up to break one circuit before you connect and make the second circuit.

These can be a problem for some types of engines especially thosenewer types with sensitive electronically controlled computer ignitions and fuel injection systems etc and alternators with diodes etc.

It's not good for some of these to be without anywhere for the current to go when the alternator is spinning!

For this reason we hear of rules like:-

"Never siwtch thru the "OFF" position while the engine/s are running!"

This is because IF they break the first circuit before making the next circuit - we are momentarilly left with a alternator making current with no battery for it to go too.

Results can be spattered diodes in the alternator or loss of computer default manufacturer settings while there is a momentary power loss.

Another type of Cole Hersey type switch for marine use is the "Make Before Break" type - where the connector position within the switch is set such that the second circuit is made before the first circuit connection is broken.

This type allows a continuous flow of electricity, while the changes are being made.

The same Rule as above tho still applies because at the OFF position - the circuits ARE broken totally - so again regardles of the type of switch you should STILL "never switch thru the OFF position while the engine is running", no matter how fast you think you can twist it.

Using the Make before you break type of switch theres far LESS tendency for a spark to jump to the next connector because the crucuit is already open via the previous connector before it is broken - the next is already connected.

If you wanted too you could think of the make before you break type cole hersey switch as a "sparkless" connector and the agricultural auto type 4wd cole hersey break before you make variety as the "spark" type.

Using the wrong one (spark vulnerrable type in the WRONG application) i.e where any type of flammable fumes might be present, can be a very very BAD idea.

Now I will give you some examples to think about for the offroaders!!

Charging batteries emits oxygen gas - a invisible tasteless odourless but non the less explosive potential gas.

Lets say I build myself a offroad camper trailer, or buy one from a manufactuirer who knows nothing about the differences between types of cole hersey isolator switchs and uses the cheaper auto type.

Maybe you have a bank of batteries under the bed in a special built battery box / drawer arrangement?.

Guess what?

When you charge those batteries, while travelling thru a 7 pin aux power connection between trailer and vehicle or even while at rest - IF you have the WRONG (cheaper auto type break before you make type circuit connection) cole hersey type switch - and it's mounted within the van and you are unfortunate enough to switch it and create a spark in all that hydrogen gas - maybe it will be the last thing you ever do.

Same for second and 3rd batteries in the rear of utes with canpopy covers or tonneau covers or in the rear of enclosed 4wd wagons etc.

I see LOTS of cole herseys fitted inside 4wds - almost any vehicle with mutliple batteries and winches and fridges freezers and heaps of spotties etc etc seems to have them.

Haven't seen one yet that was a marine type Make before you break circuit switch of the Cole Hersey variety.

Those agricultural automotive break before you make variety should ONLY ever be fitted in the open air under a bonnet for example NOT within a enclosed passenger cab space where extra batteries are contained, and oxygen can be generated by charging the battery.

It would be far safer for all 4wd's to just fit the marine continuous circuit make before break type switch IMHO specially for those campers with batteries banks under the bed etc.

How many folks even know there is a difference??.

The guy with the boat and his passenger survived their ordeal - I can tell you 100% he will NEVER forget there is a difference and his NEXT boat he won't skimp and fit an automotive break before make type of Cole Hersey Switch.

Boats saw the black smoke from his boat fire on the horizon not long after his first mayday call, but because they didn't have any exact location, took some time to find the actual spot from his "rough location description" and by then he 'n the mate had made a swim for it, floating on the ice box, and the big tides moved them many miles in quick time - long before the searching boats got anywhere near their burning boat, it burnt to the water line and sank.

His stories about the 18 hour swim and the big sharks that came to "investigate and bump them" thru the night - are enough to curl your hair.

Simple things that we don't know can easily kill us.

Knowledge is no weight to carry around.

Do a little google searching about "make before you break marine battery isolator switches" and become knowledgeable.

You might be the ONLY one in your 4wd club who actually knows! ;o)

Cheers & beers

Swapping the fuel caps was one of the first things I tried. Seems to make no difference but thanks for the tip. I agree, trying to start the gennie with a load would not be the best idea.