RE - Another <span class="highlight">Grenade</span> Explodes

Submitted: Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 16:53
ThreadID: 74313 Views:5020 Replies:8 FollowUps:19
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Hi All
Nissan have come to the party with an approximately. $6000.00 rebuild kit, all I have to pay is labour and oils, working on a price with the dealer.hopefully around $2500.00 -$3000.00
So I believe a little diplomacy and service history have helped me out with my predicament seeing the age of the vehicle. Heard on the grapevine that Nissan are often turned off by some peoples attitude and they virtually hang up the phone.
I was the same when it happened,went and had a cooling off period of two weeks and re approached .
Thanks to all who replied to my thread.
Regards Ronnie
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Reply By: Member - Wim (Qld) - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 17:03

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 17:03
ronnie.

Well done. As good a result as you could expect.
oh, and well done Nissan. Good to see some customer support.
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Reply By: Member - Kroozer (WA) - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 17:20

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 17:20
Lucky you got out of that cheap. While your there trade it for a 4.2litre, i dont think you would like to go through this again right? Driving it will never be the same again.
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Follow Up By: ronnie - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 21:10

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 21:10
Hi Kroozer
Yes you are dead right will be worrying every time I drive it.
Think I will strip everything off and look for a good 4.2 they are indestructible as we use them underground 24/7, they just keep going and the mine is thinking of replacing the 3L ones with the engines from older surplace 4.2's because of the cost of keeping them going.
.Regards Ronnie
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Reply By: Outbacktourer - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 17:49

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 17:49
I'd get a new MAF too. I read your other post and agree with the other bloke, I reckon your temps were too high. I never see more than around 400 post turbo, overfuelling I reckon.

Well done getting that deal out of Nissan, and good on Nissan.

OT
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Follow Up By: ronnie - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 21:37

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 21:37
After talking to the service manager today we believe the problem started back in october (before I changed the settings and mods),the maf was replaced them but the damage had been started because from then on the engine oil had a burnt smell even after being changed. the settings I got were from the G U PATROL reference document from patrol 4x4 forum.
Cheers Ronnie
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Follow Up By: ronnie - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 22:03

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 22:03
Could not get the link to copy last time
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Follow Up By: whitiepatrol4x4 - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 15:00

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 15:00
Unfortunately there can be a difference between motors / turbo / aftercooler so a boost setting on one motor may not give the same EGTs as another.

Maybe Aksniss had ok EGTs running at 10-11psi but I also read that his boost spiked up to 20psi and was cruising with with around 14psi - then he wound it down a little more.

In the end, the EGTs are the boss of the motor, unladened on a level road and with normal tyres (say 265/70/16s) it is ideal to cruise at around 300c post turbo temps (whatever that psi is on your setup). Bigger tyres than 265/70/16 on a stock setup loads up the motor similar to when towing so the boost will be higher to keep the EGTs @ 300c.

This means that as you go up an incline and give it some more fuel, the boost will rise accordingly and you should still be under 500c - if not, you need to change to a lower gear to increase the rpms which increases boost again and lowers the EGTs.

I have moded my motor and air charge system to be very efficient (3ltr series III Di auto) so at 110kph with 265/75/16 tyres it revs at 2350rpm and returns EGTs of 300c post turbo with 6psi of boost. Having said that, my system is still set up to provide 17psi of boost at heavy / full load.

FWIW, the stock motor usually spikes to over 20psi (not necessarily a good thing) and is set to provide up to 18psi of boost at full load, the fuel into the cylinders increases till 16psi which is pretty well matched to the boost curve.

Cheers,
Whitie

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Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 15:17

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 15:17
"I have moded my motor and air charge system to be very efficient (3ltr series III Di auto) so at 110kph with 265/75/16 tyres it revs at 2350rpm and returns EGTs of 300c post turbo with 6psi of boost. Having said that, my system is still set up to provide 17psi of boost at heavy / full load. "


I've got DTronic and 265/75/16's, snorkel, standard filter/exhaust EGR still connected and this is pretty much what I am seeing. Mine will spike to 20PSI but I get off the load pedal pretty quick when it does!

OT
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Follow Up By: PatrolBen - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 16:16

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 16:16
This post has been read by the moderation team and has been moderated due to a breach of The Personal Attacks Rule .

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Follow Up By: Top End Explorer - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 16:28

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 16:28
PatrolBen if you don't like it here, take yourself and your 3lt grenade back to you dedicated Patrol forum and have your Toyota bashing girly talk there.

Just so as you know as a dedicated Toyota owner, I have never used or needed any of that crap to keep my Toyota's going and I have had plenty of them.

Now off you go.

Steve.
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Follow Up By: whitiepatrol4x4 - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 17:16

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 17:16
Neither did the older style Nissan motor Steve, but alas, we must move on...

Just for the record, the newer electronically controlled cruiser diesels could also do with the same crap, it just needs two lots of the gauges as its a V8! Am I jealous... you betcha :)
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Follow Up By: PatrolBen - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 17:41

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 17:41
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Follow Up By: Member - Kroozer (WA) - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 17:50

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 17:50
PatrolBen i thought i better ask, Why do you need all this crap on a factory motor?
No one here is knocking Patrols. Get it through your head that we are simply stating facts, of an engine that needs no explaining as to why it is referred to as the ''Grenade''.

Its not us Toyota owners or anybody else who make this stuff up. Its the Nissan owners of this forum who have shared there experience with us all, for the better. Maybe if you did spend more time on this forum you could do a search and it will reveal just how god awful bad these spontaneously combustible motors are.

Like i have said, nothing at all against a Nissan at all, i would drive a Nissan 4.2 no worries at all. This is like arguing about wether smoking kills or not, it might not staight away but after a while no matter what you do, would you still take the risk?
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Follow Up By: Member - Amy G (SA) - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 18:17

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 18:17
PatrolBen, no need to rock up and rock the boat... this is a friendly place and the Toyota vs. Nissan 'debate' is very lighthearted, even the jokes about the ZD30 (which come from Nissan owners too). It's pretty out of line to have a go at another member as you did to Steve. Pull your head in mate.
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Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 19:55

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 19:55
As a general rule, if you can't add anything of value to a thread it would be best to refrain from posting, that would save a lot of angst all round IMHO

OT
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Follow Up By: Member - Kroozer (WA) - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 20:08

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 20:08
Back to the point of the post, ANOTHER GRENADE EXPLODES. Posted by a Nissan owner, with experience and now a much lighter wallet. With the money it will cost by time you pay for rebuild, plus fit all these boyracer gauges and the rest of the stuffing around you could of brought a 4.2 litre. Much better vehicle allround.Not much help now for the original poster but, definitely something for others to think about.

Only everknown 3 people with a ZD30 powered Patrol, and all 3 have spat the dummy. Know 3 people with 4.2s nd one with 2.8 and all are fine after 200,000 kms.
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Follow Up By: Outbacktourer - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 21:33

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 21:33
Since we are offering our opinions. The poster says that he will be out of pocket 2 or 3 grand and will end up with a re-built engine. This you appear to believe is a diaster of major proportions.

Just my opinion of course but if you were say to me when I bought a new car that I could have a new engine in it for that kind of money after owning it for ten years, that is a deal I would take any time, regardless of make.

Fitting gauges to a Patrol costs less than relocating the spare on a 100 series a(I've done both). 4.2's are indeed a good vehicle but they do not come in Auto and many like myself will never buy a manual 4WD again.

The only engine to die under me (threw a rod between Karumba and Normanton, inconvenient) was a Toyota Diesel. But I've owned a few since so statistics don't mean much to me :)

OT
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Follow Up By: whitiepatrol4x4 - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 21:38

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 21:38
I think you will find that out of those three motors(4.2, 2.8 & ZD30), only the ZD30 is "fly by wire" - totally controlled by electronics, including the injection pump and the variable nozzle turbo (VNT).

Gone are the days of the purely mechanical diesel motors, the older motors including the Toyota 4.2 are not available any more as they do not meet the new emission standards.

The new Toyota diesel V8 is the same (fly by wire) except it has twice the amount of sensors and widgets cause its a V8 and it has two computer controlled VNTs to play with - I have not seen an EGT sensor (should be sensors - one for each turbo) on it either.

Just pointing out that this is not purely a Nissan thing, most (jf not all) of the diesels that are high tech at the moment still do not have an EGT sensor feeding back into the ECU and are using a similar VN turbos - if there is no EGT sensor, then you need to install it yourself. This is the number one mod in the states when you purchase a diesel, it is just not known here I guess?

Most if not all new diesels are also using EGR to help meet the stringent pollution laws so IMHO a blowby catch can is also required.

If it is a VNT diesel that has electronics without EGT feedback and uses exhaust gas reticulation (EGR) - by simply installing an EGT gauge and a blowby catch can you will be well on the way to being able to enjoy lots of trouble free Ks as the electronics cannot fail without your knowledge.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: whitiepatrol4x4 - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 21:48

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 21:48
You make a lot of sense to me Outbacktourer ;)
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Reply By: ob - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 18:51

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 18:51
In this case it shows a little less bellowing and a reasonable approach paid off. I think what a lot of people forget is the poor ba$tard behind the counter didn't build the horrible thing but he gets the initial complaint from a dissatisfied owner. Sure your upset that your expensive purchase destroyed itself way too early in its life but this poor guy just works their. I doubt he enjoys dealing with irate customers all day but he has to do something for a crust and at the end of the day if the makers wont help what is this poor sod supposed to do

Cheers
ob
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Follow Up By: ronnie - Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 21:49

Thursday, Dec 10, 2009 at 21:49
ob you are dead right mate thats what I did first up, he clammed up and told me to ring Nissan,different approach next time and you would be surprised how he opened up could tell me that it was no 3 cylinder and what the fix was.
Cheers Ronnie
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Reply By: Member - Malcolm (Townsville) - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 17:00

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 17:00
Good one Ronnie

Glad to hear you had a positive outcome.

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Reply By: howesy - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 17:25

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 17:25
If I ever had any doubts as to whether to avoid the 3.0L nissan like a plague they were settled today. I was already really wary of them with all the reports but today I called into a prominent 4X4 workshop and commented on the 3 Nissan patrols in the workshop in various states of repair and the mechanics reply was " good for us these nissans keep us in business"

Good that they are helping you out and I hope this one goes the distance.
Maybe Nissan should offer a 4.2 conversion for 8 to 10K for those who's engine fails now that would be a good deal and good politics but it would never happen.
AnswerID: 394645

Reply By: whitiepatrol4x4 - Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 20:58

Friday, Dec 11, 2009 at 20:58
Are you allowed to quote yourself on this forum :)

Here is something I cut and pasted from a previous thread (slightly altered for this thread) ...

The "blow up" problem that a few members on other forums enjoy blowing out of proportion (pardon the pun) can be typically contributed to a faulty MAF sensor.

This is not a "Nissan" thing, it is the same on all high tech diesels that do not have an EGT sensor feeding information back to the ECU.

Prevention is always better than the cure so by installing EGT and boost gauges, we are able to see if ever the electronics are not working correctly and we are able to catch all problems (except real mechanical ones that cannot be prevented with these gauges which are rare) before it causes damage to the motor.

The challenge is really to advise all who have these high tech motors to install the two gauges - then keep on enjoying the truck...


Another thing that we should all be weary of is the implementation of EGR on these type of motors. EGR is not bad per say but when mixed with blowby oil, the exhaust particles turn into goop and slowly block the intake manifold which is very bad for a diesel.

There is a simple fix for this as well, install a good quality blowby catch can. If you have had your vehicle for a while, then I would suggest that a clean of the intake manifold would also be required (throttle body and inlet of the intake manifold can be accessed and cleaned without too much difficulty).

The 3ltr motor is a good design and members from another forum that have striped them down after 260Ks have found the internals to have minimal wear, the problem was a hole in the piston due to a failed MAF sensor:

"Just my thoughts from what I found when I pulled mine down after the problem

at 263,000K

wear in bore - too small to measure

twist in head - less than 1/2 thou

intake and exhaust manifolds also less than 1/2 thou twist.

big ends - not run in yet. Numbers still readable on shells.

mains - identical with the new ones, thickness, ovality and yaw. no wear there at all.

So with new engine australia pistons, and a weather eye being kept on the maf (with a spare in the glove box) I reckon she's good for at least 1,000,000 K "

As you can see, the motor is good but the electronics are what can let it down - by installing a boost and EGT gauge, it won't get the chance.

Here is a link to a page that shows Site Link what Ks are possible with this motor.

Cheers,
Whitie
AnswerID: 394674

Follow Up By: Member - Kroozer (WA) - Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 at 01:55

Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 at 01:55
So one eye on the road and one eye on the gauges is that what needs to happen. There is still that element of danger involved because it comes down to how often you look at the gauge. Peope install water temp alarms now because to many cars have cooked because of the fact that they werent watching the temp gauge, now you add two more gauges to that, real recipe for a mental breakdown. Supposed to be able to enjoy your car not have to watch over it like a kid.

Somebody should come up with a way of making all this electronic and perhaps have alarms installed or something to alarm the driver of potential damage or unsafe levels. This would then make it a foolproof method and if then , it eliminates the possibility of a blown motor and expensive repair bill, im sure then people would start to believe what is now considered impossible.

And then the price of the Toyotas might drop because people would have faith in the cheaper 3 litre Nissan again. Then we would all be happy.

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Follow Up By: whitiepatrol4x4 - Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 at 15:42

Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 at 15:42
Hi Kroozer, good point. There are a lot of people ithat have installed EGT gauges that can be set to alert the driver when the set EGT has been reached. These gauges seem to be the same price if not slightly cheaper than the big name brands.

No surprise that they can be purchased from a member of the Patrol forum who imports them :)

Cheers,
Whitie
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Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 at 15:13

Saturday, Dec 12, 2009 at 15:13
Ronnie


You must be a good talker to get that out of them

The reality is that the ZD30 motor has been blowing up since first put in the patrols and continues to do so. The motor is faulty and Nissan should pay all the costs.

I am on my third patrol. I would not buy a ZD30 and a lot of people I know feel the same. Nissan must be losing a lot of sales.

I have read that they are replacing the motor in the 2010 model with a V6. It will be interesting to see if the new motor is reliable.



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