would a reduction of turbo boost on the grenade nissan 3ltr stop the implodeing

Submitted: Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:11
ThreadID: 80764 Views:4554 Replies:9 FollowUps:6
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hi all you techo men

i asked this question the other day within another thread but no one picked up on it
after reading about project toni
in the first part of it

he indicated in his blog that he believed that the nissan grenade problem is caused by too much boost pressure which causes excessive heat and piston failure
if this is the case and i personelly believe it could well be a large part of the cause
this has destroyed other engines which had too higher boost pessures
eg: some toyota's and the nissan patrol 4.2's and i think early mitshi's

so im asking this question ???

if the nissan 3ltr boost pressure was reduced somewhat and a chip was installed to increase nm and kw's to compensate the loss of boost

would this make it a more reliable motor or have nissan already done this and kept it quiet
cheers
barry
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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:38

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:38
Gday,
I'm not right up with them, but isn't the problem with the MAF sensor? Doesnt that send a wrong message and send the Turbo into over boost rather than it originally being set too high?

Cheers
AnswerID: 427454

Reply By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:46

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:46
I don't think so Barry.

I agree that overboost causes many of them , but this disguises a more important issue.
This problem is complex and gone thru various stages beginning with insufficent oil level and piston splash (these reduce life) , but fundamental to the problem is that something goes wrong first !

I.E. The engine will deliver a good long life (actually short for a diesel) until one of a number of faulty conditions occur, then its systems are to fragile to cope.

Because this is the key issue things can be done about it, and internet fixes and remedies have been proposed and generally accepted.

As an example of what I mean my brother recently caught one just before it went (runs workshop).

An examination showed carbon clogged up hoses , oil in pathways etc and poor condition sensors , a proper cleanup and few inexpensive parts turned this 150,000km car back into such a wonderful drive , that the owner thought he had a new car.



Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Member - DAZA (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 14:45

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 14:45
G/Day Robin

I had a problem recently with our 2008 Patrol, with a High Pitch Whistle comming from behind the FireWall, it would happen under load, I made mention of this on the EO forum, a few members gave me some advice ect, some said it was the EGR Valve playing up or the EGR gaskets leaking, anyway seeing that the vehicle was under warranty I took it to the dealership from where we purchased it from, they had no idea what was causing the problem, I mentioned the EGR Valve and they said nah we checked that, it seems ok, anyway I had it back there 4 times with no result, I then phoned the Nissan head office in Brisbane, and they told me that it was the EGR Valve, and had the vehicle booked in for repairs at another dealership, they fixed the problem straight away, it was the EGR Gaskets, Nissans head office stated that some dealerships don't bother contacting their technical section for advice and give the customers the wrong info and some times cause more damage.

Cheers


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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 19:20

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 19:20
Hi Daza

Thats the approach , you are probably very happy you persisted now - I'm sure some of the bad ones are because others just didn't have time/knowledge to keep pushing.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Wednesday, Aug 18, 2010 at 15:05

Wednesday, Aug 18, 2010 at 15:05
hi daza
smart move be persistant and if the dealer fobs you off do like i did also
i rang the head office in the eastern states for my mazda problem
a few years back and got positive results

the head service man came from melbourne to bunbury after lodging a written and detailed complaint it was fixed under warranty

and the dealer was advised if he didnt lift his game they would take the dealership off him
never take no from a dealer they are only a part of the system in the motor industry
contact head office and get to the top man in the service department
my daughter had trouble early this year with a mmal dealer in perth who fobbed her off

so i told her to contact the head man in mitshu h/quarters and she wrote a details complaint
he came to wa and checked out her gearbox problem drove it around for a short period and came back and said it had a problem

a new $8000 gearbox was fitted within 14 days as it had to come from japan

the dealer claimed the original was not faulty and was refusing to do anything except kept saying it's covered by warranty if it fails

ignor the rebuffs by the understudies and go to the top brass this has always been a winner for me
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:49

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 12:49
Lowering the boost pressure would lower the amount of air which has the effect of enriching the mixture. In a diesel this leads to hotter combustion temps so to do this would be to tempt fate! You need to limit the amount of fuel being injected if you lower the boost pressure.

As said above, the main cause of 3.0TD issues is the MAF sensor failure. Check out the patrol forum and there is a heap of info there.

Cheers

Captain
AnswerID: 427457

Reply By: Member - Redfive - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 17:23

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 17:23
Hi Gentleman

One easy thing to do it don't buy one then it cant blow up lol
sorry i couldnt help myself a mate had one blow up Nissan carried on for a bit then fixed it he had to pay for labour i think from memory he sold it and got a 4.2 never being happier but didnt nissan put a bigger sump on the later models and a few other things to stop it ??

Glenn...
AnswerID: 427487

Follow Up By: Nutta - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 21:57

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 21:57
Unfortunately they don't have 4.2 diesel autos, unless your talking petrol.
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Follow Up By: Roach"ee" - Wednesday, Aug 18, 2010 at 20:53

Wednesday, Aug 18, 2010 at 20:53
hahahaha...Bigger sump????!!!! No, they took the easy way out (as usual) and provided a shorter dipstick!!!
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Reply By: Member - John - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 18:58

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 18:58
mazcan, "if the nissan 3ltr boost pressure was reduced somewhat and a chip was installed to increase nm and kw's to compensate the loss of boost would this make it a more reliable motor", no, because part of what all the chips do is increase boost....... as well as increase fuel.
John and Jan

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Reply By: Member - Geoff H (QLD) - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 18:58

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 18:58
Hi Barry,

Check out the Nissan Patrol Forum, there is a detailed explanation of the how the problems occur and what you can do to stop it happening.

Regards
Geoff
AnswerID: 427502

Reply By: Chaz - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 19:09

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 19:09
Hi mazcan,

Overboosting can play a part in the premature life of a ZD, but more so in the life of the turbo. It puts unnecessary stress on a number of components and is generally a consequence of the emission control system. My dyno testing has found no horsepower increase above 16psi mainly due to the fuel system’s inability to deliver more fuel, so I set my boost to achieve 16psi at 3600rpm.

Typical symptoms are splitting or popping off intercooler hoses, which can lead to engine failure due to boost escaping and a rich mixture. Sure the MAF does play a large part, but it’s not the fault of the MAF itself, but rather the excessive blowby that contaminates the MAF as a result of high boost. This is typical of all turbo engines and can easily be overcome by fitting a provent. All the problems that haunt the ZD are preventable by monitoring their systems and a few simple and easy mods.

Some more info HERE if you’re interested.

Chaz
AnswerID: 427503

Follow Up By: Member - mazcan - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 21:54

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 21:54
hi everyone
thanks to you all for the answers and explanations

much appreciated and i did know that the amount of fuel has to be adjusted if the boost is reduced or altered together with other adjustments

and i might add i was not contemplating buying one
but thought after the quote by toni in
toni project blog

that there may have been a simpler solution to this destructive and lengthy problem

i realize the best fix by nissan would be a new beaut motor but where /when will that ever happen
waiting for nissan is like waiting for a drought to break????
cheers and thanks
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Reply By: patsproule - Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 19:28

Tuesday, Aug 17, 2010 at 19:28
There is quite a solid document over at www.patrol4x4.com forums. It details the recommended fixes including fitting a dawes valve to control boost spikes and an EGT gauge to monitor combustion chamber temps. You will find it in the GU section.

Pat
AnswerID: 427506

Reply By: Ianw - Wednesday, Aug 18, 2010 at 20:10

Wednesday, Aug 18, 2010 at 20:10
If it isnt caused by the variable vane turbo and the increased density of the air provided by the intercooler, (both giving increased power) then why is there an insignificant number of D22 Navaras with the same problem? (Standard turbo and no intercooler but same engine and MAF sensor ?)

Ian
AnswerID: 427618

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